Advice On A New Build

[† CETFLY †]

Hi all.

A lot of you know my situation. Im Aussie, not here for much longer (matter of weeks now) and I recently purchased an as new Onza Woodstock 26". Ive just decided for my style of riding that it isnt best for me as I want more of a street style bike/setup. Hence Ive been chasing an Inspired Fourplay full bike or frame to build up

Now, my predicament is that time and money are against me now, as is lack of Inspired Fourplay fully setup bikes for sale and/or even a frame. One of the boys (Rich) still hasnt replied to me about his black frame he had for sale.

It looks like Im going to now have to buy a poo-brown frame new from Tarty which I didnt want to do due to funds and the disgusting dsigusting colour. Seriously, Im going to have to get it sprayed I loath it that much. I wouldnt even be able to look at it. Cant stand brown ANYthing. Just the colour shouldnt even exist in my book. lol

I need advice on parts and good quality gear (some new and most second hand) so I can get a rough cost of what Im looking at.

Im also wondering whether to sell my Onza Woodstock http://www.supercycles.co.uk/site_details.asp?ProductID=592

Its £1,050 retail which I probably wouldnt get what I want for it even with the stuff Ive done to it since buying it 2 weeks ago which sucks so much....or instead, split it for parts to put on an Inspired frame and sell the rest.

So... advice is needed from you all please!

This Onza has the Smart Guy front forks. Ive read (if im not correct please tell me!) the Inspired's use a 26' fork anyway? Would you all recommend I split this bike up and use what parts I can from it instead of trying to save it or sell it? Ive also read on a review that the Onza Smart Guy forks are super light, super stiff and super strong. Theyre the best they make apparently ( ?)

Im concerned that they arent long enough though as theyre 230mm long, the headset is 145mm in length and I only have 75mm of stem length left sticking up from the top of the headset. Will I have enough length to use on an Inspired frame? The Inspired site says "frame for use with standard 400-410mm forks". Im just concerned with the length of the Onza's stem.

I dont think Ive got as aggressive an angled stem as needed (maybe its only 5 or 7 degrees) and the handle bars are super wide and have no rise on them so I wont be using either of those.

I have tensile cranks which are 175mm and good pedals. Ive read from the forum chats that any of these lengths are fine and that many of you are happy with the 170-175mm length.

I have Magura freshly bled rear rim brakes, Magura Louise freshly bled up front (i think theyre useless though and dont like them personally. I need them to bite way harder than they do. Might try a different pad combo prior to upgrading though)

Id really like to discuss properly with someone as to what I should do and how I should set this bike up. I only want to do it once, so I want to do it right! I also want to get hold of spares to take home with me to Aus.

I'd be chasing full wheel setups, smaller chainring (currently its 24t with brand new 8 speed cassette on the back)

Cheers everyone

Appreciate the help

Wes

Edited May 23, 2009 by † CETFLY †

[† CETFLY †]

Interesting. Ive just looked up the specs for the Inspired Frame geometry.

Inspired Geometry (with Echo Urban fork, sold separately)

Wheelbase: 1040mm -(Onza 1060mm)

Chainstay Length: 385mm - (Onza 410mm)

BB Rise: 35mm (approximately equivalent to 10mm rise on a 26" bike) -(Onza no idea how to work this one out )

Head Angle: 73 degrees -(Onza, fairly lazy apparently, may be much the same)

Reach from centre of BB shell to centre top of head tube: 650mm (25.5") -(Onza 620mm)

Would still love an Inspired though.

Edited May 23, 2009 by † CETFLY †

[Dan81]

why don't you wait until the colour you like is available and get it shipped?

as for the onza, unless you happen to know someone looking for a full bike I'd split it and sell up as much as you can before you go (obviously hold onto the bits you want to go on the inspired).

....forget studying measurements and angles, just go and ride!

Edited May 24, 2009 by Dan81

[Luke Rainbird]

ESSAY WARNING

It looks like Im going to now have to buy a poo-brown frame new from Tarty which I didnt want to do due to funds and the disgusting dsigusting colour. Seriously, Im going to have to get it sprayed I loath it that much. I wouldnt even be able to look at it. Cant stand brown ANYthing. Just the colour shouldnt even exist in my book. lol

Colour isn't the be-all and end-all, with sprays being about a fiver a can it's relatively inexpensive to sort that issue out if needs be. Check out the Bike Pics Subforum for some examples/ideas

This Onza has the Smart Guy front forks. Ive read (if im not correct please tell me!) the Inspired's use a 26' fork anyway? Would you all recommend I split this bike up and use what parts I can from it instead of trying to save it or sell it? Ive also read on a review that the Onza Smart Guy forks are super light, super stiff and super strong. Theyre the best they make apparently ( ?)

Im concerned that they arent long enough though as theyre 230mm long, the headset is 145mm in length and I only have 75mm of stem length left sticking up from the top of the headset. Will I have enough length to use on an Inspired frame? The Inspired site says "frame for use with standard 400-410mm forks". Im just concerned with the length of the Onza's stem.

I dont think Ive got as aggressive an angled stem as needed (maybe its only 5 or 7 degrees) and the handle bars are super wide and have no rise on them so I wont be using either of those.

You're right in that 24" frames are designed around a standard 26" (400-415mm) fork, though of course this puts rim brake mounts an inch too high so you'll have to run a disc or get them modified to run a vee/magura on them. The headtube on the Inspired is 120mm long, when you add around 30mm for the headset this gives 150mm so a 230mm steerer would be plenty - for reference I think mine's about 175mm or so (just enough for a 10mm spacer under my 40mm stack stem). A slightly higher bar/stem would suit the smaller bike, most people run somewhere in the region of a 90*15 stem with 2" risers for streety riding, or something a touch longer and higher like the Trialtech stem (120*17) with trials bars.

Trials bike unfortunately depreciate in value the second they're no longer new. It's unfortunate from a seller's POV but fairly handy for buyers. If there are enough decent parts on the Woodstock then it'd probably be worth running them on the Inspired but of course this won't be everything. Is the Onza the standard spec? (This one has Smart Guys/Louise etc so I guess so?) Having that would make it a little easier to determine what's worth keeping/selling

I have tensile cranks which are 175mm and good pedals. Ive read from the forum chats that any of these lengths are fine and that many of you are happy with the 170-175mm length.

I have Magura freshly bled rear rim brakes, Magura Louise freshly bled up front (i think theyre useless though and dont like them personally. I need them to bite way harder than they do. Might try a different pad combo prior to upgrading though)

The Tensiles will be absoultely fine, I've only ever run 175mm cranks on mine and have no issues with clearance or anything along those lines.

As with any brake, its performance will relate to its setup. If you're not too sure yourself enlist the help of a local rider who knows their stuff to give you a hand so you pick up little tricks and tips.

Pads/rim surface make a huge difference to a Magura. If you're in need of more bite you'll want to get some softer pads for a smooth rim, or harder on a grind. Then you've got different harshnesses of grind for extra wet weather performance and the like, though on a 24" I can't see any need for more than a light tickle with a grinder at most. What pads and rim surface are you running at present? The Pad Reviews Thread is an excellent source of info for this; start at the end and work your way back for the most recent reviews since some of the older reviews will be for pads that are no longer available

The Louise should be able to offer excellent braking too, again down to setup/maintanance though. Ensure the pads are clean, and that the rotor is true and uncontaminated. What size rotor are you running? Larger means more oomph, but also puts more force through the fork if you're a bit of a tank like some. Throwing water on the brake before and after riding around with it on to heat it up (big hills are handy for this!) will help to bed it in a little more which will lead to more grab again.

Id really like to discuss properly with someone as to what I should do and how I should set this bike up. I only want to do it once, so I want to do it right! I also want to get hold of spares to take home with me to Aus.

I'd be chasing full wheel setups, smaller chainring (currently its 24t with brand new 8 speed cassette on the back)

A 24t ring up front isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you've got a full cassette leave it on until you find you've found which gearing best suits you as this will help if you decide to switch rings/go singlespeed later on. Most of us use something in the region of 18:14 or 18:13 (or equivalents with larger rings) which'd put you on a 17/18/19t rear cog. This'd feel about the same as 24:18/19/20 on 26" wheels

You mentioned you were in London - I'm sure a few of the guys there rollin' on dubs wouldn't mind you popping along on a ride and having a little roll to get a feel for what you like/dislike and to discuss things a little more with you if it'd help

Shameless plug: I have a bar/stem combo along with a few other bits and bobs I don't need, if they can be any use or you need a hand with anything feel free to drop me a line

[Simpson]

Ben Rowlands is selling his inspired full build on forum for a good price?

[† CETFLY †]

Colour isn't the be-all and end-all, with sprays being about a fiver a can it's relatively inexpensive to sort that issue out if needs be. Check out the Bike Pics Subforum for some examples/ideas

The link didnt work but I'll be able to find it.

You're right in that 24" frames are designed around a standard 26" (400-415mm) fork, though of course this puts rim brake mounts an inch too high so you'll have to run a disc or get them modified to run a vee/magura on them. The headtube on the Inspired is 120mm long, when you add around 30mm for the headset this gives 150mm so a 230mm steerer would be plenty - for reference I think mine's about 175mm or so (just enough for a 10mm spacer under my 40mm stack stem). A slightly higher bar/stem would suit the smaller bike, most people run somewhere in the region of a 90*15 stem with 2" risers for streety riding, or something a touch longer and higher like the Trialtech stem (120*17) with trials bars.

This is the next part Im trying to sort in the mean time between bikes. Ive been speaking to Bionic Balls and he's saying to swap the bars/stem setup to suit more streety riding which I agree with as do most people.

Thats the next step. I need to find a set of bars and stem (used) to put on the setup to try.

Trials bike unfortunately depreciate in value the second they're no longer new. It's unfortunate from a seller's POV but fairly handy for buyers. If there are enough decent parts on the Woodstock then it'd probably be worth running them on the Inspired but of course this won't be everything. Is the Onza the standard spec? (This one has Smart Guys/Louise etc so I guess so?) Having that would make it a little easier to determine what's worth keeping/selling

Yeah, I know. Everything does as soon as its not brand new anymore. Its just the way it is unfortunately.

Yes, the Onza is standard spec. I'd be getting rid of the bars and stem and I saw the price of the bars on tarty. One of the best and most sort after too apparently.

I dont have that front rim or the Chris King hubs. They mustve been changed along the way. It has DDG hubs. They feel great though. Both running true.

As with any brake, its performance will relate to its setup. If you're not too sure yourself enlist the help of a local rider who knows their stuff to give you a hand so you pick up little tricks and tips.

Cheers, its only the different rim brake types I need to research. Have been setting up my Avid Juicy 7's on the XC and theyre perfect. Changed the front and rear discs from 160mm to 180mm rear and 203mm front. At top speed one finger-reef of the front and I'll blend in with the bitumen.

Pads/rim surface make a huge difference to a Magura. If you're in need of more bite you'll want to get some softer pads for a smooth rim, or harder on a grind. Then you've got different harshnesses of grind for extra wet weather performance and the like, though on a 24" I can't see any need for more than a light tickle with a grinder at most. What pads and rim surface are you running at present? The Pad Reviews Thread is an excellent source of info for this; start at the end and work your way back for the most recent reviews since some of the older reviews will be for pads that are no longer available

Rear- HS33, Standard pads, smooth rims (roughened them up with sand paper to bed them in as well as the pads. I think Ive stripped the adjustement thread on those though by pulling on the lever too hard when practicing rear wheel hopping) Probably need a new lever/assembly also. I have Louise front disc

The Louise should be able to offer excellent braking too, again down to setup/maintanance though. Ensure the pads are clean, and that the rotor is true and uncontaminated. What size rotor are you running? Larger means more oomph, but also puts more force through the fork if you're a bit of a tank like some. Throwing water on the brake before and after riding around with it on to heat it up (big hills are handy for this!) will help to bed it in a little more which will lead to more grab again.

I disagree with the water comment. Ive been building cars for the last 12 years with different brake setups, pads/rotors/master cylinders etc and there is absolutely no gain in putting water on them either before or after use, when bedding the pads in. Car brakes (apart from the obvious ABS) work exactly the same as our hydraulic bike brakes.

Any lubricating solution (even water which dries) will not help bed the pads in on a disc setup. It cant possibly. You need to bed them in with how theyre going to be when theyre at their optimum which is dry. Read a hydraulic disc brake manual and it will say nothing about water being used. It would if it was for best results.

The way to bed pads in is to gain as much speed as is safely possible (remembering that theyre almost as good as useless until bedded in!) and brake as hard as you can.

Around 10 solid hits of this style (riding as hard and fast as possible and yes hills help, and braking as hard as possibe) will bed them in the most part. Continual riding/braking will do whats left until they come up to 100%.

Just remember thats for XC and bikes where you can get speed. Trials, obviously you cant so you'd have fairly soft pads (softer than XC-higher speed bikes) as softer pads are needed to bed in quickly and not have as much of a working life as say a XC pad.

The rotor is 180mm on the Louise. I'll try to get new, softer pads for the front. Theyre useless. Ive bled both front and rear setups also and I know exactly what Im doing with disc brakes and bleeding. I have written a large brake bleeding "How To" section on Maguras on another site here:

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=37774

You mentioned you were in London - I'm sure a few of the guys there rollin' on dubs wouldn't mind you popping along on a ride and having a little roll to get a feel for what you like/dislike and to discuss things a little more with you if it'd help

Shameless plug: I have a bar/stem combo along with a few other bits and bobs I don't need, if they can be any use or you need a hand with anything feel free to drop me a line

Yeah thanks mate. Would love to meet up with people today/tonight actually (Tuesday 26th May) if anyones up for it?

I'd like to check out your bars and stem too please, so reply to my PM

Thanks mate