beigemaster Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Oh wow, that I didn't know. So technically all these storybooks are linked to one main, made up mister?Not really, but that’s what your own argument was based on which is clearly false. However, this can lead to a good illustration. Why is it if someone builds a general argument or makes a point (like the one you did) and then if it changes due to new evidence/opinion (like I did to yours) we would call that evolution and progress. However, if the same process happens within Christianity, we call that Christians picking and choosing various interpretations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 May I point you to this: He gets on a bit, but the intent and meaning is there.Quite interesting.It reminds me of the native americans and their rain dances and sun dances.They would dance until the rain came, and then claim their dance caused it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronz Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Not really, but that’s what your own argument was based on which is clearly false. However, this can lead to a good illustration. Why is it if someone builds a general argument or makes a point (like the one you did) and then if it changes due to new evidence/opinion (like I did to yours) we would call that evolution and progress. However, if the same process happens within Christianity, we call that Christians picking and choosing various interpretations?My argument has been proved wrong, which I accepted, I then proceeded to ask a question to learn the truth. That's the cornerstone of scientific progression. Christians are blindly following anything and refusing to question things. Questioning and learning is what separates religion from normality IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 My argument has been proved wrong, which I accepted, I then proceeded to ask a question to learn the truth. That's the cornerstone of scientific progression. Christians are blindly following anything and refusing to question things. Questioning and learning is what separates religion from normality IMO.Could that be because when they do, as I said before, they get accused of re fiddling their belief system? Maybe this is the difference between religion and faith, faith is open to reason and rationality whereas religion is obviously very dogmatic. Personally, I believe if there is a God, and we are made in his image, then this must be a God of reason. Rationality is the quintessential feature that humans have over animals so one could assume if God were to exist, this is a feature he would share. Therefore, religion as an institution does seem somewhat self defeating. However, the same blind dogmatism can be found in scientific thinking, people assuming science will provide all the answers even though (by its own definition) it will never be able to answer the "why" questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronz Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think that if that's what you chose to believe then you should stick to it. Don't chop and change. Either believe all the Bible and its nonsense teachings, or don't believe it. There's a difference between questioning and selectively believing. I think that was the point that was trying to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTrialSpaz Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Either believe all the Bible and its nonsense teachings, or don't believe it. There's a difference between questioning and selectively believing. I think that was the point that was trying to be made.Truth. I find it hard to accept that some Christian's can believe in God, accept his might and power and take the Bible as his teachings for the way we should live. But instead of following all of the teachings within the Bible, many (probably very near 100%) Christians have seen things in the Bible which they don't want to do, so have glossed over them and ignored them. You can call this, evolving religion etc but there's one problem with that one. Did God personally turn around and say, "Oh, you don't have to do those bits anymore!" or "Actually, I think we'll just take this story as a metaphor for how you should live." Nope. didn't think so. A man, a mortal man, turned around and said, "Come fellow Christians, followers of God and the Bible. Lets just do the nice things in the Bible!"You cannot say the religion has evolved when it's based on the word of a God but that word and his teachings have been altered by people other than a deity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) The Bible by its own definition is an evolution of religion, hence the old and new testaments. One was written at a time before Christ and one after, which is why there are apparent inconsistencies and it would actually be logically impossible to follow the entire Bible on a literal scale. Furthermore, the Bible (whether you believe it to be the word of God or not) is a) Written word and b. Written/translated by man ergo it is impossible for it to be infallible AND impossible for it to not be interpreted. Some parts are metaphor and others are historic account, it doesn't take much to work out the difference.On the subject of metaphor and analogy, I wouldn't want people to believe that this is a wishy washy interpretation on any random truth, we speak in metaphor all the time (no one would take everything literally) For example, in the sentence "I see your point" doesn't literally mean I can view a sharp object that you are holding. A man, a mortal man, turned around and said, "Come fellow Christians, followers of God and the Bible. Lets just do the nice things in the Bible! Of course that is begging the question, the same mortal man claimed to be God, so if what he said was indeed true then actually he would have the right of a deity to change the teachings of God. I'm sorry, but I can't stand people who think Jesus was "a nice man" or "a great leader". He claimed to be God, sorry but he was either God in human form or a complete and total nutter, feel free to choose which one. Edited May 27, 2009 by beigemaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTrialSpaz Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 The Bible by its own definition is an evolution of religion, hence the old and new testaments. One was written at a time before Christ and one after, which is why there are apparent inconsistencies and it would actually be logically impossible to follow the entire Bible on a literal scale. Furthermore, the Bible (whether you believe it to be the word of God or not) is a) Written word and b. Written/translated by man ergo it is impossible for it to be infallible AND impossible for it to not be interpreted. Some parts are metaphor and others are historic account, it doesn't take much to work out the difference.Good point. However I still feel that there is too much picking and choosing, even taking into account any inaccuracies caused by mistranslation etc.On the subject of metaphor and analogy, I wouldn't want people to believe that this is a wishy washy interpretation on any random truth, we speak in metaphor all the time (no one would take everything literally) For example, in the sentence "I see your point" doesn't literally mean I can view a sharp object that you are holding.Yeah but people don't exactly use the idea of raping someone as a metaphor for getting to know them.Of course that is begging the question, the same mortal man claimed to be God, so if what he said was indeed true then actually he would have the right of a deity to change the teachings of God. I'm sorry, but I can't stand people who think Jesus was "a nice man" or "a great leader". He claimed to be God, sorry but he was either God in human form or a complete and total nutter, feel free to choose which one.I didn't mean Jesus. I mean that at some point in time, a religious leader and a group of other religious types have decided to dismiss parts of the Bible and would clearly deem many of the actions in the Bible wrong if performed today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yeah but people don't exactly use the idea of raping someone as a metaphor for getting to know them.What are you actually referring to by that? I'm not being funny its just I'm not sure how to offer a possible response is I don't know what it's in reference to. I didn't mean Jesus. I mean that at some point in time, a religious leader and a group of other religious types have decided to dismiss parts of the Bible and would clearly deem many of the actions in the Bible wrong if performed today.If that hypothesis was true, why would they create a Jesus character in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTrialSpaz Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 What are you actually referring to by that? I'm not being funny its just I'm not sure how to offer a possible response is I don't know what it's in reference to.Yeah, thought afterwards I could have worded it better. I was trying to say that the fact that people use metaphors in everyday speech is no justification for claiming that all of the 'morally wrong' things in the bible are a metaphor for something else, especially the few passages which indicate that rape is ok and I cannot see how these passages could be interpreted otherwise. Quick Google Source - I know it's not the most unbiased page in the world, but the passages are there and unadulterated.If that hypothesis was true, why would they create a Jesus character in the first place?Again, the point I was trying to convey has got a little bit lost on the way here I think. I'm not debating Jesus etc. I'm saying that after his time on Earth, someone has decided to not listen to many things in the bible (stoning etc) and has convinced fellow Christians to think in a similar fashion, as many today do. Now, I don't know the facts involving this but I'm fairly sure the people who resulted in these things being ignored were 1) Not Jesus 2) Not God 3) Had no direct contact/conversation/visit etc with or from God. So who is to say that following the Bible in such a way is a Christian thing to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Religion/speculation/theory/faith is too complicated and stressful for my tastes. See what it's done to this thread already? Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDeathMonkey Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) Religion/speculation/theory/faith is too complicated and stressful for my tastes. See what it's done to this thread already? Carry on.I like your style. In my day to day life i'd say just deciding what to have for lunch is a bigger descision than what religion i should be following.P.S (I had leftover chicken and sweet potatoe curry today) Edited May 28, 2009 by SuperDeathMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Anscombe Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 lucifer is by far cooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Lad Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Strange that christians seem to have this unspoken respect for other religions despite the total narcicism that surounds their chosen faith being the only/best one. It's like they secretly aknowledge some sort of universal Pascal's wager. In order for their chosen belief to survive criticism they can't (as moderate believers) attack each others choice of faith. They're part of a larger vaguely defined group of believer,m perotect the beleifs of others because it presrves the unquestioned 'respect' for your own whack beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bol Maaaaaaing Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I find this topic becoming a bit of an insult.its just turning into everyone picking and the small groups of people actualy Christian.I think that it should be closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Shucksmith Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I find this topic becoming a bit of an insult.its just turning into everyone picking and the small groups of people actualy Christian.I think that it should be closed.I was waiting for you to reappear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Yea, and give up because there's no proof to his argument. How unusual.You (Hannah) on the other hand, have actually put together some perfectly intelligent points which I don't usually expect to hear from 'religious nuts'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Shucksmith Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 You (Hannah) on the other hand, have actually put together some perfectly intelligent points which I don't usually expect to hear from 'religious nuts'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Death to religion, all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Damn, there are some seriously narrow minded imbeciles on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I find this topic becoming a bit of an insult.its just turning into everyone picking and the small groups of people actualy Christian.I think that it should be closed.Well in that case you need to learn to read, no one has insulted anyone in here, it's a DISCUSSION. If you're too narrow minded that people can't challenge your beliefs and values without it offending you, then I feel sorry for you.I think it's a hilarious concept that you can get insulted by someone challening the existance of God or the validity of the bible and proving it with cast iron evidence. You can still believe in stuff you know! In case you havn't noticed, no-one in here has tried to show you the "truth", just tried to show you how blinkered your view is! (In my opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronz Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 http://atheistblogger.com/2008/02/15/101-atheist-quotes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 You (Hannah) on the other hand, have actually put together some perfectly intelligent points which I don't usually expect to hear from 'women'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Shucksmith Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I think it's a hilarious concept that you can get insulted by someone challening the existance of God or the validity of the bible and proving it with cast iron evidence. You can still believe in stuff you know! In case you havn't noticed, no-one in here has tried to show you the "truth", just tried to show you how blinkered your view is! (In my opinion).I don't get insulted by others challenging the existance of God or the bible. Purely for the fact I give no concern to who believes in what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Damn, there are some seriously narrow minded imbeciles on here.Or maybe they would rather believe a jolly old fat guy really is creeping around peoples houses 1 night of the year, religion is obselete and is just used to stop people from actually having to solve their own problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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