Dr. Nick Riviera Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Reading the replies in this thread there's almost a mob mentality of the atheists ganging up on the Christians (Let's face it, the Christians are a minority on this forum!).Sounds about right, but sensible debate never happens on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I wonder what kind of insecurity forces the Atheist team to feel the need to prove their opinion.I don't think it's insecurity at all. It's the disbelief that anyone can so blindly ignore factual evidence and proof. The fact that we can prove things like the Big Bang and evolution actually happened is the point here. Picking on Hannah (sorry), she was unaware of any evidence for the fact our Universe is expanding and started at a singularity of some sort. The realisation of things like that may just make her think a little about what the creation story and the bible itself is about. Religion makes her happy, fair enough. And our Kiwi friend is also clearly a true believer and so long as he's happy, whatever. I just feel sorry for people like him who find comfort in something which seems (to me) so far from reality, verging on delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 That depends entirely on your definition of reality.Whatever that may be, science and faith are equally real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 {snip] blindly ignore factual evidence and proof. The fact that we can prove things like the Big Bang and evolution actually happened is the point here.Well let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Big Bang is still a theory - it's very likely that it happened and it's generally accepted in the science world, but to say we've proved it is inaccurate. It's supported by all the evidence we have at the moment, but it also relies on a few assumptions. I'm sure the wikipedia page can tell you more about that. Some people still dispute it though - if the Big Bang theory is correct, it implies a state of 'nothingness' before it, which is difficult philosophically. Some people have argued that everything that begins to exist has a cause. Ergo if you believe in a Big Bang, you should believe that the universe had a cause.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalam_cosmological_argumentMy old Physics teacher put it like this: There was once a god, who exploded himself. That was the Big Bang. He intended that to be a bit facetious I'm sure, but I always thought it was a pretty succinct way to explain things.You need to question your faith in science some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 My old Physics teacher put it like this: There was once a god, who exploded himself. That was the Big Bang. He intended that to be a bit facetious I'm sure, but I always thought it was a pretty succinct way to explain things.You need to question your faith in science some time I think the thing we're getting at in this thread is the difference between faith- like belief in something being 'the first cause' or whatever else that incorporates and Christianity. Christianity, the bible, Jesus, Moses, God and everything that goes with it has nothing to do with the cause of the Big Bang, the nothingness before it or the nothingness (?) outside of our own Universe into which we are expanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Good point. I find whenever I have to discuss things like this instead of saying christianity, just replace it with organised religion, that way you can speak out against the concept rather than peoples individual beliefs, on the flipside however, ignorance is rife nowadays, so nobody is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Bowel Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 As said before, I'm a Christian, and I have seen alot of strentgth through god, i'm not here to convert people, I don't understand why people are trying to convert us to non believers It's not gonna happen guys cause i'm soo happy.Why can't you respect what we believe?I respect other religions although I don't believe them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 As said before, I'm a Christian, and I have seen alot of strentgth through god, i'm not here to convert people, I don't understand why people are trying to convert us to non believers It's not gonna happen guys cause i'm soo happy.Why can't you respect what we believe?I respect other religions although I don't believe them.I respect that, just not my cup of tea. No harm, no foul.I also think there's a bit of confusion here about agnostics (me) and atheists. Not that it's worth throwing into the fray at this point.As you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleageman Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 (edited) Incredible. The amount of passion and feeling, viewpoints and opinions volunteered on this topic are 'beyond belief'. How, when people with no religious faith, are so convinced that science 'as we know it' has the answer? Does that not make 'science' - a faith/ belief/religion in it's own right?You might reply 'facts' - stick 'em up your arse! Everything we've learnt so far was fact, until it was disproved. I've decided that I am not religious, agnostic, an aethiest or a nihilist. i'm born, i grow, i f**k, i die. All the rest is a bonus. I suggest you all shut the f**k up whinging and get on with the basics ....IMO... Edited May 29, 2009 by middleageman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Incredible. The amount of passion and feeling, viewpoints and opinions volunteered on this topic are 'beyond belief'. How, when people with no religious faith, are so convinced that science 'as we know it' has the answer? Does that not make 'science' - a faith/ belief/religion in it's own right?You might reply 'facts' - stick 'em up your arse! Everything we've learnt so far was fact, until it was disproved. I've decided that I am not religious, agnostic, an aethiest or a nihilist. i'm born, i grow, i f**k, i die. All the rest is a bonus. I suggest you all shut the f**k up whinging and get on with the basics ....IMO... This is what I meant originally. Unfortunately my naivety stopped me from conveying it so well and I ended up in the dummy throwing. Nicely put. /thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleageman Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 (edited) oh yeah, has anyone seen my dummy? .... Edited May 29, 2009 by middleageman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bol Maaaaaaing Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Question:Why do people try to convince Christians that there is no God? Do you really think it will work? I've seen a lot of internet discussions about this subject, and not once has any of the Christians turned round and said "You know what, you're Right! Thank you for showing me the truth!" It just never happens. It's like discussing which colour is best or whether JarJar Binks was a good addition to the Star Wars franchise. With that in mind, why even bother? All that happens is that the argument becomes more heated, and each side becomes more resolute and digs their heels in deeper. I can't think of any reason to keep fighting a battle you know it's impossible to win?Also whenever I read these topics, I always come away with the impression that the Christians come across better. There's no name-calling, no insulting other people's intelligence, just (usually) pretty humble replies. I'm not a psychologist but I wonder what kind of insecurity forces the Atheist team to feel the need to prove their opinion. Reading the replies in this thread there's almost a mob mentality of the atheists ganging up on the Christians (Let's face it, the Christians are a minority on this forum!). Just a couple of observations. For the record, I don't believe in God. Call it Agnosia.Damn straight.The manners are the main part that bothers me. Its not like "Hey, Thats a good point but I disagree" like what a proper discussion is like. Its more like "What the feck! your munted in the head!" and "What a load of rubbish, your nuts".If you dont believe I dont mind and I respect that, But I dont say that your crazy and insane, which I get from you guys.I respect what ever you believe (or dont) wether its Athiest, Muslim, Hindu or Paganism. Im not going to call you a twat and say that you are wasting your time.You may not be saying it straight up like that, but I know thats what you mean.You may not know it, but Christians pray for people like you everyday and pray that you will be safe and have a good life.Let God be with you forever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 You may not know it, but Christians pray for people like you everyday and pray that you will be safe and have a good life.Let God be with you forever!I really wish you wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Why not? If you don't believe in God then its not going to affect you is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleageman Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 (edited) Isn't religious bashing, just a form of bullying? Edited May 29, 2009 by middleageman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 You need to question your faith in science some time Fortunately, scientists continually question and re-evaluate their own beliefs, as well as those of others, so I don't have to so much. There are plenty of continuously updated and created sources that I can also use to gain a better over-view of everything, and to ensure my opinions and thoughts aren't solely guided by one potentially inaccurate source.The difference for me is that science is always being made more accurate and is being advanced, whereas the general trend with religion is to not really question it too much. I'm aware that the individual religious person may question their own faith from time to time, but simply by looking at, say, the Catholic Church's views on contraception and, for example, it's impact upon the spread of AIDS in the world would suggest that they're fairly strict in terms of their reliance upon alleged information that is potentially 2,000 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Why not? If you don't believe in God then its not going to affect you is it?No, it wouldn't but I really hate the thought of some self righteous Christian trying to save me from my sinful ways on my behalf. The thought actually offends me in some way, much like preachers on the streets spouting bible quotes and telling you to take Jesus into your life and repent... Must be the devil in me I guess.I don't know if I believe in God or not... I believe in the Devil though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Isn't that Hawzie in Evolve? He gets a proper funny look from Ryan Leech + Jeff Lenosky (who presumably are Christians?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Isn't that Hawzie in Evolve? He gets a proper funny look from Ryan Leech + Jeff Lenosky (who presumably are Christians?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Was definately Hawziee, dunno if thats exactly what he says though.If our Christian matey hadn't said 'you know we actually pray for you' you wouldn't know about it, correct? If so, its ben going on for ages without you being affected by it right? I don't think they're trying to make themselves self righteous by saying 'look how good I am, I pray for others,' I think its more of a 'i'm so happy with what I have, I want others to have it too' kinda thing.I guess anyways, I'm not a Christian by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Similarly, no-one really knew what Josef Fritzel was up to, and although it didn't directly affect me I'd rather that kinda stuff didn't happen. Once you know something's occuring that you don't approve of, it's a little harder to turn a blind eye to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleageman Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Correct me if i'm wrong? But maybe most, who are denying Christianity in this post, have you actually read the Bible? Or any 'Sacred Scripts'? Or are you just guessing??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 True true - But Its not actually affecting anyone? I'm also pretty sure they don't say 'Dave Marshall should be prayed for tonight' its more of a blanket statement. In my eyes, if it makes someone happy and doesn't directly affect anyone else, then thats fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroMatt Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Correct me if i'm wrong? But maybe most, who are denying Christianity in this post, have you actually read the Bible? Or any 'Sacred Scripts'? Or are you just guessing???Akin to the number of religious folks that have read a scientific paper I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Correct me if i'm wrong? But maybe most, who are denying Christianity in this post, have you actually read the Bible? Or any 'Sacred Scripts'? Or are you just guessing???Yes. I went to a CofE school.We were forced to sing hymns in assembly, forced to read the bible etc...There was never any discussion, it was never argued, the teachers just told us how it is. There was no debate over the credibility of the Bible, it was just forced upon us.Now, as an adult, I can read the Bible and see it for what it is - a collection of stories, with no evidence. Funny how all the "miracles" happened ages ago and no real miracles have happened since. Have you seen anyone part water and walk through it or turn one drink into another?I grew up being force fed Christianity and until I was old enough to realise it's an out of date trend with no evidence to back it up, I kind of believed it. Or should I say, accepted it as everyone else did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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