Is Anybody On Here A Hardcore Christian?

[ilikeriding]

"Why does it have to be FOR anything?"

True. If not we'd all be killing someone who annoyed us, steal for whatever we wanted to make us happy etc.

Some people cant see past the ends of their noses. Not saying you, im meaning that we cant see anything bigger, stronger, more powerful than us ourselves as humans.

If it was all for nothing, we wouldnt even have the question "whats it all for?"

Ok. You seem to know some parts of the bible. There must be a reason for your interest in it as you must have questioned life at some point? All humans do, whether they say/admit it or not. Its normal. We have the mental capacity for doing this, animals dont. As long as theyre fed and have company, theyre generally happy. This is what sets us apart from the animals.

Im sure most people will cry out to God when theyre about to die or when theyve exhaust all their own avenues and done everything they can out of their own strength. Like when a loved one is dieing in hospital and the doctors can do nothing for them. Im sure we dont just think "oh well, ce' la ve', we tried". No, if we dont believe, Im sure most appreciate other people praying for them. Many have had miraculous recoveries to which doctors simply cant explain.

How can God be manifested by humans if He never existed? Its not something we can just conceive. We can only understand and know what our eyes would/could see. We would simply have no concept of God or Him being the Creator unless He came and told us. If He didnt, we'd just accept what we are, what was around us and that would be it.

"You say a lot about free will, we can do whatever we like, however some of those things will end us up in hell. Is being homosexual free will? Yes - but you'll end up being tortured for all eternity."

(From New testiment, its from Pauls 1st letter to the Corinthians, so its labelled 1 Corinthians and the 2nd letter is 2Corinthians etc)

1Co 10:23 “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive.

1Co 10:24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

This world would be such a peaceful place if we just all loved one another as brother and sisters and cared for what others needed first because it would obviously come back to us. Theres nothing more fulfilling for the soul than genuinely helping and caring for someone in need and really seeing it in their eyes when they say "thank you, thank you so much"

(from New testiment again the 2nd letter to Peter, so 2Peter)

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

Thats God allowing our free will. We have the choice to do what we choose, but that doesnt mean its healthy for us and wont affect others in a bad way or have consequences. He's allowing this but wants us of our own free will, to choose to come to Him.

"Bible stuff is all irrelevant becuase the bible says the earth is 6000 years old and we should beat our slaves"

Wheres that coming from? Find it for me in the bible and I'll give some insight. Its obviously not what we should be doing of course! It sounds old Testiment and specific to a certain people of its time. Back then, beating a slave may have been as common and customary to those certain people as smacking your child. Who knows? I dont focus on this stuff personally.

We're currently not under Gods "Law" (old testiment, which is impossible to live by and God knows it) but Gods "Grace" (new testiment, freedom to live peacefully, in Gods love for us).

I have to go to bed, its 3:30am and im shattered!

Keep asking questions. Keep seeking answers mate. I recommend it!

Take care

What did you ask God for or for help with?

I know youre probably havin a laugh, but i'll say this...satan always will get in and "help" you whenever he can. Everything is in Gods timing though. Its up to us to be patient and wait.

If we dont, and go with a bad choice the devil is there ready to lead us astray.

Devil means "Great deceiver" as long as he has empty promises, tempting us and we believe it and take it, he leads us away from God and His love

If god is all powerful.. why does the devil exist? Why is there earthquakes?

If these things are due to original sin then why.. if he knows everything.. would he create beings that would sin?.

Those questions just cant be directly answered by a christian, which would mean god is flawed which in turn would mean god is not god.

Your notion of god and the principles of good will that you live by contradict what actually exists in the world.

Edited June 5, 2009 by ilikeriding

[ManxTrialSpaz]

If god is all powerful.. why does the devil exist? Why is there earthquakes?

If these things are due to original sin then why.. if he knows everything.. would he create beings that would sin?.

Those questions just cant be directly answered by a christian, which would mean god is flawed which in turn would mean god is not god.

Your notion of god and the principles of good will that you live by contradict what actually exists in the world.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

This just sprung to mind.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

This just sprung to mind.

Smart man, that Epicurus.

[Tomm]

Think about it....how could humans possibly even know of God and His higher power, unless He told us about Himself?

Have a really good think about that. Its deeper than you think

We couldnt just conceive that thought pattern on our own, of God being the higher power and who He is. We know because we're told.

The alternative view is that we absolutely could come up with the idea of God to explain things that we don't understand, or simply as a concoction to control a growing population. "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him." (Voltaire).

To me, the idea of a bunch of humans dreaming up a God and creating the bible just seems so much more likely than the idea that there is an all-powerful being out there who beamed his thoughts down to earth into Moses' mind etc. Nowadays we have who believe they are being spoken to by God and we give them medicine and they get better. In the past, perhaps these people were given a bit more credence (again, because we didn't have such a good understanding of the world and mental illnesses).

Don't get me wrong, I know the bible isn't meant to be taken exactly as read. My post was perhaps a little sarcastic, but to me it's just so bizarre that people would believe these things.

Anyway, I know I'm happy with my views, and it seems like you are too (although the parties and girls did sound pretty sweet!), so it's all good.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Don't get me wrong, I know the bible isn't meant to be taken exactly as read.

That's only because people who believe realise that it makes absolutely zero sense in the modern world if you do take it as read and so make sure that they can pick and chose the bits they want to believe. It all comes down to the idea that the bible was written (by man) after stories had been passed down and changed through generations. What you end up with is, most likely, complete drivel with very little basis in reality. Again it was written in a time when our knowledge of the world around us meant that to even mention the idea that the Earth might orbit the Sun was punishable by death.

Man I hate religion with a passion.

[Bronz]

My mate's just bailed on me for a ride tomorrow so he can go to church. Enough said

[† CETFLY †]

My mate's just bailed on me for a ride tomorrow so he can go to church. Enough said

No, thats not enough said. We need to put God first in our lives. If we have the best relationship with God in our lives that we can, it overflows in our lives with our family, friends so on.

Why not just go check out church? Its not going to hurt you, at least you might get a different view on it even if you dont choose to go again

[JD™]

No, thats not enough said. We need to put God first in our lives. If we have the best relationship with God in our lives that we can, it overflows in our lives with our family, friends so on.

Why not just go check out church? Its not going to hurt you, at least you might get a different view on it even if you dont choose to go again

OOOORRRR, God should be understanding enough to let his mate ride

[† CETFLY †]

I'm afraid I didn't bother reading anything you posted after that, I may do later but when rubbish like that comes out I switch off.

Edit: Having scanned your posts I think we have a winner for hardcore christian of T-F. Unlucky.

Thats ok mate. Thats your choice and I respect it

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

No, thats not enough said. We need to put God first in our lives. If we have the best relationship with God in our lives that we can, it overflows in our lives with our family, friends so on.

OOOORRRR maybe God's a made up human creation which has no place in todays society. You can feel free to put God first in your life. We, however, are all going to hell.

[JD™]

OOOORRRR maybe God's a made up human creation which has no place in todays society. You can feel free to put God first in your life. We, however, are all going to hell.

I hear there's more grip on molten rock than clouds anyway.

[Mark W]

Out of idle curiosity, are there any Christians on here who believe that what they've done with their lives so far entitles them to go to Heaven?

[ilikeriding]

If god is all powerful.. why does the devil exist? Why is there earthquakes?

If these things are due to original sin then why.. if he knows everything.. would he create beings that would sin?.

which would mean god is flawed which in turn would mean god is not god.

Thats ok mate. Thats your choice and I respect it

I would find it respectful if you answered the points I made above... should be easy as you seem certain that god exists.

I'm really interested as to what the explanations for these things would be, I suppose you might say I could not understand the nature of god, however you do make god out to be good therefore I can understand your idea of good together with an understanding of the existence of evil ect...

[Mark W]

Psst, ilikeriding, if you really want to try and stump him maybe ask about how it's possible to base your faith off a book that was actually dramatically re-written when translated into English so the teachings made by the early church to control the population better actually synced up with what was written...

[JD™]

Pre-empting his reply:

Free will and tests of faith.

[† CETFLY †]

OOOORRRR, God should be understanding enough to let his mate ride

hehehe

OORRRRR if you were a father, who hadnt seen his son all week, would you rather he came and saw you rather than go a for a ride that he can do on one of the other 6days in the week

Ok, im replying to a few other replies in this one, thats why its long.

God is all mighty. Yes, but we need to see His relationship with us, as a father is to a child.

He loves, advises and teaches, but if we're so focussed and determined on doing a certain thing, even if its bad for us, He wont stop us. Its our choice. Our free will. He gives us ways out and will try to convince us its not a good idea, either through circumstances or other people in our lives offering advice on the situation. If we still go ahead with it and get hurt, He's still there to help and support us. Like any good father would to their child.

Back to free will....

Its like jumping off a building. You ask God for forgiveness on the way down.

God will forgive you, but gravity wont.

What we accept as normal - gravity, the need for food and water to stay alive etc wont change. Theyre givens.

Natural disasters will happen. Its the way life is. I dont blame God for it. I accept it as a part of life. Likewise with death.

If its going to happen anyway, Id rather be having God with me than still have the disasters going on and be distant or ignoring God.

I was in most of your positions in times through my life. Ripping into the bible, asking questions, not believing etc.

I look back and see it was other people who had no real knowledge etc who were giving negative and incorrect insight from friends of friends etc. Like Chinese whispers.

Saying things and quoting things without even looking at it themselves or asking the right people who can give info on what the text means and the context.

No christian should be forceful. I'll never force anything on anyone.

Check out this pic:

http://family.webshots.com/photo/1292970439060487422zUqSEb

Note the lack of handle on the outside of the door. This shows he cant open the door (metaphor for your heart). The door opens outward. You must open that door to Him. He doesnt do anything by force.

I cant explain why God saves some in certain times and others not. I cant begin to believe its "luck" or "natural selection"-type thinking.

Nobody has all the answers in life on anything. Christians for God, non-christians for things in life in science etc. I think its funny when people attribute

break throughs and massive leaps forward in mankind to science and the bad things to God.

I believe God blessed scientists with what they know and their intelligence.

No one in my family has Diabetes or Ceoliac disease (Gluten intolerant so cant eat a lot of most foods). Sure, it sucks. But whinging about it and blaming God for

"allowing" this isnt going to make it go away. Its something I accepted and just ask God for help with in managing it in my life. I can see the good that has come of it though.

It made my personality come through at a young age by being very interpersonal with people and very sociable (long story as to why) but Im thankful for that.

Most of the things of this world are from our own doing. Pesticides create cancers (have had a few people back home from farming communities see that first hand) global warming, from cars etc.

Another example: My partner, from a farming town back home in Western Australia, was one of 4 in a christian town to be diagnosed with childhood Leukaemia at the age of 4.

It took 2 years to get through that and the town was praying for the kids to pull through. 3 of them didnt. She was the only one to survive. Its devasting for a family to lose children so young.

If you live near a nuclear powerplant....fair call, theres a far higher risk of general health problems, yet people blame God? God blessed us with brains. We dont HAVE to live near a nuclear powerplant where the risk is higher than somewhere else.

My partner was then diagnose with a brain tuma at the age af 16.

(Youre automatically in a higher risk bracket when youve had something like leukaemia at a young age. )

She and her parents were told that, worst case scenario, she would die (very high chance with everything Im about to list), be severerly mentally retarded, be blind (as the tumer was affecting her eyesight) and an ongoing list of possible outcomes.

This, I can imagine, wouldve been so hard for her parents as well as her.

They were praying intensely, as was the town through this. She came through, with only partial lose of sight in "patchy areas" of her right eye. THATS IT! Thank God for that!

Shes such a sharp woman, Id never have known this about her from how she is until she told me what she'd been through. Shes such a smart woman.

Romans (new testiment)

Ro 8:28- And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose

That means all things....good and bad. I know Im thankful for the hard times I go through and the testing times. It makes me press into God more and be closer to Him.

Testing times in life are good too. It builds character, knowledge and wisdom through experience.

Cant experience the highs unless you go through the lows. Id rather that than have a flat, plain, simple. boring life personally.

Monkeyseemonkeydo

Man I hate religion with a passion.

Me too. As does Jesus, thats in the bible too. Religion is man made stuff that man thinks will get him accepted into heaven. Things like doing good for others, fixing things for free, whatever as a means to get to heaven. Ie: Good "works" purely, that alone, to try to get into heaven.

The only way to heaven is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and believing what he did on the cross for our sin. We cant do anything else but accept that love.

Its like in life, you cant earn genuine love if a girl loves you. She loves you for you, not the things you do for her. All you can do is accept it from her, and love her back. Its no different with God

Alright, gotta shoot. Got loads of things I need to be doing!

[† CETFLY †]

OOOORRRR maybe God's a made up human creation which has no place in todays society. You can feel free to put God first in your life. We, however, are all going to hell.

Youre happy with that choice? I dont understand how people say "christianity is used or made up to control the population" (close to what was said from memory, if its not Im sorry but you know what Im getting at)

What is the gain for that? Why do people or why are people so hating towards christians or people who believe in Jesus Christ?

Have they hurt you in some way? Or been less caring, loving and understanding that any other regular person you may bump into in the street? I hope not.

They generally go out of their ways to help you and do care. If they dont then its something they probably working on in their lives and need to be patient with them.

People rip into christians for not being perfect. Id consider that a pretty hypocritical mindset, personally.

Thing is, we never are and never will be. No one will be, in faith or out of faith. The thing is, people in faith are trying. When theres need in the world, who tries to help and send aid relief, normally christian organisations. Purely because we care for those suffering and are called to help them. Its what Jesus wants us to do in the bible.

Love your neighbour.

If people believe in Jesus Christ/God which is wholesome, doesnt hurt others but can only actually help others, I cant see why other people would want to give them a hard time about it and try to stop them from it?

[middleageman]

So your saying because of all we have learnt through science the most probable scientific theory of how we became like this is cock and balls?? ahem

There is no missing link between us and animals the fossil records throught history are quite clear, you may want to research this before you say things like that

We still dont know alot of things for example how anything actually exists but just because we do not know doesnt mean it has no cause or is caused by 'god', if a doctor cannot determine a particular virus from a patients symptoms he doesnt assume it is god's doing or the symptoms have no cause.

You sound very preachy...

Preachy? Really? Sorry, perhaps my posts don't come across as I intend.

I don't believe in any Religion in any way, shape or form. I am perfectly happy with evolutionary theories, at this present moment in time they seem to make the most sense.

The point I was trying to make was the fact that we've come all this way forward through scientific reasearch and basically all we've learnt is that 'we are animals with a bit more nous'.

A bit of a disappointment really.

Also, please take my posts with a small pinch of salt, as I assure you my toungue is wedged firmly in my cheek as I type. I'm just keeping an open mind and throwing a few ideas into the melting pot to stir up a bit of debate.

MAM.

edit: maybe re-read my post.

Edited June 5, 2009 by middleageman

[JT!]

"I cant begin to believe its "luck" or "natural selection"-type thinking."

Well natural selection has been proved.

Do you believe in creationism?

Every tried been atheist for a day? You're suggesting us to goto church, so why don't you try no going to church, and no praying etc.

[† CETFLY †]

I would find it respectful if you answered the points I made above... should be easy as you seem certain that god exists.

I'm really interested as to what the explanations for these things would be, I suppose you might say I could not understand the nature of god, however you do make god out to be good therefore I can understand your idea of good together with an understanding of the existence of evil ect...

I touched on these in one of my recent posts

No, its not easy though.I cant possibly answer them all. Im not God. Someone could answer all of someones questions, but that doesnt necessarily mean they then believe. They may then want God to be standing there right before them saying "Here I Am", now do you believe? Then they go to the doctor complaining theyre seeing things and the doc gives them drugs for it as someone mentioned earlier.

We as humans feel the need to rationalise everything that happens.

To me, focussing on the bad things that I cant prevent (earth quakes etc- which on a scientific level is actually maintaining the planet, which if people dont believe in God and just evolution, should have no problem in understanding and accepting as part of like) is, to me, like someone who is focussed or worried about bad luck in terms of being supersticious.

For example. I break mirror but im not that foolish to think that glass, with a layer of shiney thin metal on the back is going to give me 7years bad luck. Faith or not.

But some people unfortunately do. They then play into that "bad luck" thought pattern when they have their heads down, trying to avoid adding to the "bad luck" by avioding cracks in the pavement (yeah, good luck doing that in london! LOL ) then walk into the path of a car and get hit.

They lay in hospital thinking "its true, i do have bad luck"

Seriously, we were blessed with a brain and we need to use it.

If they hadnt had their head down, worrying and thinking about what more "bad things" are going to happen to them, and had their eyes and head up, forgettng about a broken mirror, they stand a better chance of avoiding future problems. Like the car they can now see and avoid walking into the path of because theyre not focussed on the "bad things".

Its like people who focus on the past and cant let it go. We all have that to some extent. But we miss out on the good things in life and cause more problems for ourselves in the present and future by looking backwards at our past and past mistakes, whilst trying to walk forwards in life.

[JT!]

But some people unfortunately do. They then play into that "bad luck" thought pattern when they have their heads down, trying to avoid adding to the "bad luck" by avioding cracks in the pavement (yeah, good luck doing that in london! LOL ) then walk into the path of a car and get hit.

They lay in hospital thinking "its true, i do have bad luck"

Seriously, we were blessed with a brain and we need to use it.

So what your saying is, you shouldn't believe something unless it proved. There's no proof that braking a mirror will give you bad luck, and if you do have bad you you'll blame it on the mirror.

How does that differ from believing in god. There's no proof for him, and when things go right, we thank him.

[† CETFLY †]

"I cant begin to believe its "luck" or "natural selection"-type thinking."

Well natural selection has been proved.

Do you believe in creationism?

Every tried been atheist for a day? You're suggesting us to goto church, so why don't you try no going to church, and no praying etc.

If natural selection were true, the strong would survive and there would still be murder etc for that strong person to survive. We wouldnt have a society law with jail, rules etc.

The strongest would dominate by force.

Atheist. My dad is atheist

Why go back to how I was before coming to Christ? It didnt feel good then so why would I turn my back on the best thing thats happened to me in my life?

Ive been at the other end of things in my life which is why I said I wasnt always christian and didnt always lead a christian life, but came to Christ and accepted his love and forgiveness for sin and its the best thing Ive done. So much more fulfilling than how I used to live my life.

Im being pretty candid with what Im saying here. I hope Im respected for trying to help here as I respect all your opinions and questions and am not trying to offend anyone.

Many of which (opinions and questions) ive thought, had and asked myself at times

[ManxTrialSpaz]

Why go back to how I was before coming to Christ? It didnt feel good then so why would I turn my back on the best thing thats happened to me in my life?

Ive been at the other end of things in my life which is why I said I wasnt always christian and didnt always lead a christian life, but came to Christ and accepted his love and forgiveness for sin and its the best thing Ive done. So much more fulfilling than how I used to live my life.

To be fair, all the Christians on here do seem a lot chirpier than the rest of us....

[JT!]

If natural selection were true, the strong would survive and there would still be murder etc for that strong person to survive. We wouldnt have a society law with jail, rules etc.

The strongest would dominate by force.

Atheist. My dad is atheist

Why go back to how I was before coming to Christ? It didnt feel good then so why would I turn my back on the best thing thats happened to me in my life?

Ive been at the other end of things in my life which is why I said I wasnt always christian and didnt always lead a christian life, but came to Christ and accepted his love and forgiveness for sin and its the best thing Ive done. So much more fulfilling than how I used to live my life.

Im being pretty candid with what Im saying here. I hope Im respected for trying to help here as I respect all your opinions and questions and am not trying to offend anyone.

Many of which (opinions and questions) ive thought, had and asked myself at times

No, you're being a typical Christian and you don't have any real understanding about evolution / natural selection. Evolution IS true, it's a fact.

There is still murder, we murder cows and chickens etc. We don't murder our own kind because that goes against our natural instincts (and yes i know there are a select few who do, but that's a small %). This is how we cam to be the dominant species.

Well, most Christians always tell people to goto church and see what it's like, pray and see what you get out of it. But when you say to a Christian, try being atheist for just one week, they'll never do it.

[† CETFLY †]

So what your saying is, you shouldn't believe something unless it proved. There's no proof that braking a mirror will give you bad luck, and if you do have bad you you'll blame it on the mirror.

How does that differ from believing in god. There's no proof for him, and when things go right, we thank him.

I believe by what Ive felt in my heart, what Ive read in the bible and the miracles and prayers answered which cant possible be from luck, fate, coincidence etc.

"Coincidence is where God chooses to remain anonymous" I like that saying.

The devils greatest deception was to convince the world that he didnt exist. He wouldnt walk around in a visibly horrific way because then people would see that its true and come to God.

God on the other hand, has done enough to convince us of His existance. Look around you. Look at the bible. Its God-breathed words through men blessed by God to write/document what was done. They didnt have note pads back then. Only the most important, historical things were documented and recorded.

God came to us in human form. Jesus Christ. Jesus was one of the most common, ordinary names of that time and region. Word of mouth back then, along with stories was the main form of communication and things werent exagerated like we do these days to impress and gain peoples interest. They were told as they happened, as with how they were documented.

Yes, there are many translations. The word is not altered though. Theres no way were could possibly all learn the language the bible was originally written in which is written in Aramaic (old Testament) and Greek and Aramaic (New testament). Much of the New testament was written in Jerusalem, Rome, Greece and Turkey.

We as westerners, english, need this translated to understand it. Its not taking away or adding to the word of God but merely making it understandable for us.

So much of the bible (new testiment) does actually relate to todays society. We as a human race, apart from technological advancements, really havent changed much in the way we are over this time.