R.i.p Intelligent Design

[JT!]

Darwinius Masillae

[Prawny Baby]

if ti was found in 1983, why the f**k has all this only just come to light now?

[Krisboats]

It tells you that in the story. The people who found it didn't know what it was and it was bought a few years ago by a university where it was studied in secret to make sure it was genuine/important.

Looks kind of creepy to be honest, though to be fair the idea of evolution is completely sound... it was only a matter of time before we found something.

[Hobnobs]

Read the article

No doubt the people who still dont beleive in evolution will find some rediculous way to slander this, it's unbeleivable the lengths some people go to to think of ways around darwins theory.

[JT!]

No doubt the people who still dont beleive in evolution will find some rediculous way to slander this, it's unbeleivable the lengths some people go to to think of ways around darwins theory.

There's been enough proof not to believe in ID for years, this isn't going to change many peoples minds to be honest, they'll just say that it was one of gods creations that died out years ago.

[Mark W]

No doubt the people who still dont beleive in evolution will find some rediculous way to slander this,

They already have for all fossils - according to them, they're put on the earth as a test of our faith by God.

[beigemaster]

This is of course based on the presupposition that evolution can not be an entailment or product of intelligent design. This discovery isn't going to change people's world views because the world views alter the view point on any evidence on this basis. Obviously, it seems flawed to not believe in evolution as at least a methodology to explain how we got here (hence getting rid of creationalism) but people will just take a step backwards with the argument. I.E rather than asking "how is life so complicated without a designer" they will just say "how is evolution and existence it self possible without a designer"

[Hannah Shucksmith]

Teleological and Cosmological arguement?

[Mark W]

That GCSE revision coming in handy in a real life situation?

[beigemaster]

Teleological and Cosmological arguement?

Pretty much, but rather than teleogical based on life (which we can explain through evolution) a teleogical argument based on the order and uniformity of existence as a whole, eg the correct amount and union of physcial forces/laws ect

[Hannah Shucksmith]

This topic will be the beginning of a war between religion and the theory of evolution.

And yes, OBM.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Hannah Shucksmith

[Hobnobs]

They already have for all fossils - according to them, they're put on the earth as a test of our faith by God.

I watched a documentary the other day about evolution and christianity. The best part was the texan bible bashers that had made a little like amusement park thing which showed how dinosaurs and humans lived alongside each other. Idiots.

[Mark W]

It's even better when they start talking about carbon dating, and how it's a load of bullshit because the earth hasn't been here for more than a few thousand years...

[anzo]

it's unbeleivable the lengths some people go to to think of ways around darwins theory.

I believe in Darwins Theory, its logical. However people will found aways around it; and rightly so. If you were taught something from birth, raised with it and believe it so much would you simply 'accept' this?

People aren't going to just give in on their religious beliefs for this

[Mark W]

To be honest, I'd hope people would question their own faith simply as an act of reaffirming it, or at least to see if it could potentially be f**ked. I'm not saying that this 'missing link' is the reason that they might consider their faith is flawed, but the blind faith to believe that one particular religious book (Not even one of the older, more established ones) is 100% accurate seems to be turds.

[Hannah Shucksmith]

I believe in Darwins Theory, its logical. However people will found aways around it; and rightly so. If you were taught something from birth, raised with it and believe it so much would you simply 'accept' this?

People aren't going to just give in on their religious beliefs for this

How true. Despite being taught from birth that God created the world, in my own mind I am aware of how there must be a more logical reason for the existence of the universe. Surely it is only logical for one to accept that no one man could have created such incredible matter, and there are so many flaws in each theory based upon religion as to how the universe was bought to life. I believe in the whole, God is the cause of evolution, and that evolution shows the power that God has, but hey, each to their own...

[JT!]

This topic will be the beginning of a war between religion and the theory of evolution.

That's been going on for years.

I watched a documentary the other day about evolution and christianity. The best part was the texan bible bashers that had made a little like amusement park thing which showed how dinosaurs and humans lived alongside each other. Idiots.

Yeah, a guy called Kent Hovind runs it. Guess what he's up to now.

How true. Despite being taught from birth that God created the world, in my own mind I am aware of how there must be a more logical reason for the existence of the universe. Surely it is only logical for one to accept that no one man could have created such incredible matter, and there are so many flaws in each theory based upon religion as to how the universe was bought to life. I believe in the whole, God is the cause of evolution, and that evolution shows the power that God has, but hey, each to their own...

I think that is where religion is generally heading over this century. People will stop considering the bible ACTUAL events, and just metaphoric stories. Which'll be good becuase then we don't have to hear any more of this ID and bible crap anymore.

[Jitters]

How true. Despite being taught from birth that God created the world, in my own mind I am aware of how there must be a more logical reason for the existence of the universe. Surely it is only logical for one to accept that no one man could have created such incredible matter, and there are so many flaws in each theory based upon religion as to how the universe was bought to life. I believe in the whole, God is the cause of evolution, and that evolution shows the power that God has, but hey, each to their own...

I am in no way a religious person, but my sentiments exactly. I fault no one for their faith, but it seems to blindly limit thought in quite a few. It's certainly not a new by product of religion and the (sometimes poor) interpretations of their teachings, respectively.

In other news,

The earth is only 6,000 years old.

BWA HAAA HAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

It seemed so plausible...

[Haz]

GOD PUT IT THERE TO TEST US.

[beigemaster]

This topic will be the beginning of a war between religion and the theory of evolution.

And yes, OBM.

Why does there have to be a war? They both address two different things, one addresses the physical and the other the metaphysical. To put another way, science looks at the "how" questions and religion (amongst other things outside of scientific study) the "why" questions. Furthermore, someone with a faith in God or religion could easily appreciate the wonder of evolution the same way they may appreciate the beauty of a sunset.

It's even better when they start talking about carbon dating, and how it's a load of bullshit because the earth hasn't been here for more than a few thousand years...

I guess its even better when the media/scientific community (i.e Dawkins) use Christian fundamentalists as easy target practice to demonstrate how the principle of materialism is so superior to the theistic world view. Of course, wouldn't want to mention or represent any of the top scientific and philosophical minds who have theistic views such as Lord Winston, Prof Alister McGrath, Dr John Lennox, Richard Swinburne, John Cottingham and C.S Lewis.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is yes, there are a lot of ignorant and rather stupid people who try and defend a view point with no real rational arguments (the creationalists) BUT there are also a lot of ignorant people on the other side of the fence who blindly believe that science has all the answers, all people who believe in God are nutters and a materialistic account of the world is the best explanation. I'm not saying any of these views are false, but like religion, they also need questioning and defending by rational argument, which a lot of atheists will simply dismiss (a bit like the creationalist nutters)

To be honest, I'd hope people would question their own faith simply as an act of reaffirming it, or at least to see if it could potentially be f**ked.

Couldn't agree with you more there, but why not do that with your own worldview even if you’re not religious?

Sorry for that rather long rant, I'm not trying to defend religion or science, I just can't stand ignorant views on either side and I also fail to see why science and religion aren't compatible, as long as religion sticks to its own ground in the "why" questions and science sticks with the "how" questions.

[Greetings]

GOD PUT IT THERE TO TEST US.

As a forum, we have failed the test.

Shit.

[JT!]

Why does there have to be a war? etc etc

The problem is religion is doing a lot of bad in this world, terrorists, wars, it's effecting human rights and corrupted peoples minds even if they aren't religious.

Eventually people get sick of this and start 'attacking' them. Take gay marriage for example, here in the states it isn't allowed, apart from maybe in one state but that marriage isn't recognized in any other sate. 'Marriage between man and a woman' is becuase this country has a religious 'up bringing' and now those religious views effect how non religious people live their lives, that isn't freedom from religion which is a human right.

[beigemaster]

I was really referring to the idea of religion vs evolution/science rather than religion versus the world. You do make some very good points, I don't think the problem lies with religion as an entity but with people who use it as an excuse/method of evil. The reason being that there have been thousands of atrocities and general evil acts that have been committed in the name of ideologies out side of religion like communism, ethnic cleansing ect. It seems to me that there are evil people who will use anything they can as an excuse and obviously religion is one of those excuses.

Again, it’s a very interesting point about the gay marriage example. I don't know the entire mechanisms of the US political system but if you boiled it down to its roots then obviously it’s supposedly a democracy and therefore the laws are set by the majority. Without wanting to go into a whole chain of thought about whether democracy really is a good system, it seems to be the most effective we have. If you don't want to live in a place that has a lot of religious laws governing its system (and I know I wouldn't want to!) then move to a place where the majority agree with you or campaign to justify your own views, that’s just the nature of a democracy.

[anzo]

The problem is religion is doing a lot of bad in this world, terrorists, wars.

I'm not religious. But you can't simply shrug off religion and identify it as the cause for the bad things in the world. Look at the all the good religion does; charity, it gives people hope that there is something stronger and greater than anything else on Earth, it gives people comfort in death of a friend/family member. Christianity, Islam, and most other religions have been around for years - basically there has been religion in the world a lot longer than there hasn't been religion.

There will always be conflicting beliefs; but I think if everyone in the world believed the same thing, it'd be a pretty boring place.