AdamR28 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Haha, yeah maybe Mark...In practice the stem option isn't the same as a 35deg stem long enough to put the bars at an equivalent height would mean a longer reach.Not really, you could just use, say, a 110x35 stem instead of a 95x10 and a load of spacers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Istill think that either having to run a load of spacers/wierd stem makes the design fundamentally flawed. That said, this bike looks awesome!That's what I was thinking at first, but then I thought about the fact that I'm currently running over 8" rise bars on my BMX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I should point out that the main reason I run soooo many stackers is that the fork steerer is internally threaded for the topcap. I didn't want to cut the steerer down too much in case I ran out of thread, particularly as I don't have access to a tap to extend the thread. I don't need that many and it does look OTT but I'm happy with it and can't be bothered changing it now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan81 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) I didn't mean to start a steerer tube debate - was just thinking and typing!Not really, you could just use, say, a 110x35 stem instead of a 95x10 and a load of spacers?Yes, I agree for longer stems/reach and as a compromise to use with the current design....but to me neither option looks right on a streety bike and I must be old-school as 95mm to me still feels like a loooong stem I was thinking of something shorter! It's obviously not a huge problem in terms of selling the bikes but in future development (not specifically the inspired but 24" trials/street crossover bikes in general) it's something that could be corrected/developed in frame design...That's what I was thinking at first, but then I thought about the fact that I'm currently running over 8" rise bars on my BMX Do you think a handlebar specifically designed for the bike would work? Something like a low BMX bar (to use with BMX stem) but with more reach built into the shape of it?Lastly......but I'm happy with it and can't be bothered changing it now .Sorry to use your bike as a point of criticism....it looks amazing. I can't help thinking about solutions to design problems, it's all I've ever done for the past 10 or so years, so it's inbuilt! I took your advice on the easton bar and stem by the way but haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Edited July 17, 2009 by Dan81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 it's something that could be corrected/developed in frame design...How would you do it, other than compromising the geometry by dropping the BB height? A super long head tube would probably look even more weird (and reduce strength at the head tube join). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan81 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 How would you do it, other than compromising the geometry by dropping the BB height? A super long head tube would probably look even more weird (and reduce strength at the head tube join).Dunno, I'd have to draw it in CAD to really work it out...also depends how much front end height there is to gain. Thinking and typing again:I totally agree adjusting BB height for the sake of stem stackers can be ruled out as an option. The headtube could be slightly longer (not stupid long) assuming the rest of the design is sympathetic to it. Just having the headtube taller 'at the top' and without repositioning any of the tubing or reinforcements would weaken, like you say but if you repositioning the top tube/look at the tube profile where it meets the headtube could add some height. Maybe a frame/fork combo would work better?Another thought - what looks wierd doesn't really matter. Mod bikes look wierd (especially ridden by grown men)....to some people a bicycle with no seat is wierd....it's just perception, people just get used to what they see. Design development always has to come before perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 How would you do it, other than compromising the geometry by dropping the BB height? A super long head tube would probably look even more weird (and reduce strength at the head tube join).Wouldn't you be able to ovalise the tubes more to give them more weld area? And wouldn't having the tubes attaching to the headtube a bit further apart give them more stiffness and strength? Just thinking about it in terms of, say, weight lifting where you try and spread your hands apart to even out the load and balance it better (as well as provide a stiffer structure), whereas if your hands were right by each other the bar it'd be easier to have the weight twist down to either side? I'm aware that's a wank description, but I couldn't really think of any other way to put it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan81 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Wouldn't you be able to ovalise the tubes more to give them more weld area? And wouldn't having the tubes attaching to the headtube a bit further apart give them more stiffness and strength? Just thinking about it in terms of, say, weight lifting where you try and spread your hands apart to even out the load and balance it better (as well as provide a stiffer structure), whereas if your hands were right by each other the bar it'd be easier to have the weight twist down to either side? I'm aware that's a wank description, but I couldn't really think of any other way to put it......same as what I meant and explained just as badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Brodie Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Isn't that Danny Mac's bike?? no dave just wants to be like him looks nice dave,most certainly THE nicest inspired ive seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Wouldn't you be able to ovalise the tubes more to give them more weld area? And wouldn't having the tubes attaching to the headtube a bit further apart give them more stiffness and strength? Just thinking about it in terms of, say, weight lifting where you try and spread your hands apart to even out the load and balance it better (as well as provide a stiffer structure), whereas if your hands were right by each other the bar it'd be easier to have the weight twist down to either side? I'm aware that's a wank description, but I couldn't really think of any other way to put it...Yeah but you also lose some of the strength/rigidity that the slight join in the top/down tubes provides, I'd have thought. Not going to be a huge difference either way really.Personally I see no reason to need to do it - running a slightly different geometry stem puts the bars in the same place, job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan81 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Yeah but you also lose some of the strength/rigidity that the slight join in the top/down tubes provides, I'd have thought. Not going to be a huge difference either way really.Personally I see no reason to need to do it - running a slightly different geometry stem puts the bars in the same place, job done.If there's still a gap you can have a little plate in there. All I was saying is that either a 100x10 stem with a mountain of spacers or a longer/much higher stem don't looks right on a streety bike...it's just something that looks like it could be corrected in the frame with some development. Edited July 17, 2009 by Dan81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yeah but you also lose some of the strength/rigidity that the slight join in the top/down tubes provides, I'd have thought.It doesn't mean much, but none of the BMX frames I've ridden have had a sort of join there. Tree even specifically made their newest frame with a gap there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan81 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 yeah, i noticed at least one of the new deng frames has a gap there...don't think it means the frame will fall apart but it's easy to reinforce anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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