bigamac Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 just skiped like a school girl on speedMade me laugh Quoted for my sig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Yeah but if you think about it, what they're doing is pretty clever.I'd rather have a 48ep freewheel that never skipped over a 180 that skipped regularly. Even if the higher ep freewheel (with the skip included) engaged in less rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Yeah but if you think about it, what they're doing is pretty clever. If a 36ep freewheel skips, it skips to the next pawl engagement which is 1/36 of a rotation.A 180 which skips all the time, will only skip 1/180 of a rotation. That's 2 degrees god dammit! Well below freezing if you think Fahrenheit, but why would you. Celsius is the way forward.Yeah until that fantastic day when it decides it wants to do a full rotation cause the insides are so mawled from skipping reguarly?Gimme a tensile any dayfirst try all was amazing i thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cristoff Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Yeah my Try-All i had never skipped, i always thought it was really reliable :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstein Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 I had the 16th try-all, did not skip once, but then the outerring exploded after 6 1/2 months (2 weeks out of warranty). I have the 18th now which skips like a bitch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Yeah but if you think about it, what they're doing is pretty clever. If a 36ep freewheel skips, it skips to the next pawl engagement which is 1/36 of a rotation.A 180 which skips all the time, will only skip 1/180 of a rotation. That's 2 degrees god dammit! Well below freezing if you think Fahrenheit, but why would you. Celsius is the way forward.well below mate...very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 well below mate...very true The continual shock loading of regular skipping isn't gunna do the pawls and ratchet any favors though surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigman Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 The second pic looks a lot like the Tensile 96 click freewheel,The fact it has the Shimano BB remover system and the fact its 96.6 clicks. Ah well.........Take it as a compliment I guess.Pretty sure it actualy says 36.6 on it, so i am guessing it might be a budget freewheel for some of thier lower end bikes....Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 If it's not supposed to skip and it does then it's a bad design. It's only a matter of time before a skip of 2 degrees wears into a skip of a whole crank turn. High engagement point ratchets are usually built less strong than ratchets with lower numbers of engagement points because the shock loadings a high EP ratchet will see are lower because there's less crank turn possible before it engages - the depth of the ratchet teeth reduces the more teeth you try to fit too. Once it starts skipping (A 180 EP freewheel skipping on one ratchet tooth gives the same movement before engaging as a 90 EP freewheel, if it skips two teeth it's a 60 EP etc.) the shock loading becomes as high as a lower EP ratchet, but the ratchet teeth and the pawls aren't designed to take it and get damaged. If the 180 engagement points are created by something like 5 pairs of really big, strong pawls, each pair offset by 2 degrees, running on a deep 36 tooth ratchet and it was made precisely from the right materials, heat treated correctly, it could work perfectly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) If it's not supposed to skip and it does then it's a bad design. It's only a matter of time before a skip of 2 degrees wears into a skip of a whole crank turn. High engagement point ratchets are usually built less strong than ratchets with lower numbers of engagement points because the shock loadings a high EP ratchet will see are lower because there's less crank turn possible before it engages - the depth of the ratchet teeth reduces the more teeth you try to fit too. Once it starts skipping (A 180 EP freewheel skipping on one ratchet tooth gives the same movement before engaging as a 90 EP freewheel, if it skips two teeth it's a 60 EP etc.) the shock loading becomes as high as a lower EP ratchet, but the ratchet teeth and the pawls aren't designed to take it and get damaged. If the 180 engagement points are created by something like 5 pairs of really big, strong pawls, each pair offset by 2 degrees, running on a deep 36 tooth ratchet and it was made precisely from the right materials, heat treated correctly, it could work perfectly...It should actually be considerably higher, well the load is the same but it will be applied even quicker (even 'shocker'?), when a skip happens there's no taking up of chain slack, applying tension to the drive system in general. It's just BANG on to the next ratchet tooth/set of teeth. Edited April 27, 2009 by Shaun H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 True - to summarise, a freehub that skips is bad ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Koxx Really need to sort their freewheels out......not by giving them more egp....but just improving design ..The previous 108.9 i thought was responsive enough just skiped like a school girl on speed Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Czar Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 My Try-all is horrible, it feels rough, skipp's so much, and feels crap all together, but thats not stopping me from wanting to try one of these out, look amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 My Try-all is horrible, it feels rough, skipp's so much, and feels crap all together, but thats not stopping me from wanting to try one of these out, look amazing Is this how all of Koxx' customer base think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 The continual shock loading of regular skipping isn't gunna do the pawls and ratchet any favors though surely?You missed the point my friend. Unless your post was a discreet way of saying that you prefer Celsius?But yeah, 72ep must be as much as one will ever need. I mean how many of us have that many and ever think we could do with more?In all seriousness, what Koxx is doing is just called progress. The world would be pretty shit if people thought everything was good enough and didn't need improvement. So if this design doesn't work, another one of theirs' in the near future will. Still, it'd be great to have a freewheel based on the King engagement system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 why don't they build freewheels the other way round? so the pawls are in the ring with the teeth, and the etchy bits ( that are normally on the outer) on the inner, you could have some massive pawls and springs, and fewer, much deeper etchy bits. i'm assuming most of you would be more than prepared to sacrifice some EPs for more reliability right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Doesn't seem possible engineering wise, esspecially trying to imagine what the internals would look like with all those engaugement points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 The larger the diameter of the ring on which the pawls engage, the less torque they have to transfer. If they engaged on the freewheel body, they'd have to put up with a hell of a lot more torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 You missed the point my friend. Unless your post was a discreet way of saying that you prefer Celsius?But yeah, 72ep must be as much as one will ever need. I mean how many of us have that many and ever think we could do with more?In all seriousness, what Koxx is doing is just called progress. The world would be pretty shit if people thought everything was good enough and didn't need improvement. So if this design doesn't work, another one of theirs' in the near future will. Still, it'd be great to have a freewheel based on the King engagement system.Nah I thought he was agreeing with your point about the amount of rotation! I realise the context now, but I still stand by my point in the way I meant it to come across I did actually do a few CAD drawings for a ringdrive freewheel but I'm not sure where they are on my laptop haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 i was thinking about the ambient temperature indeed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Koxx Really need to sort their freewheels out......not by giving them more egp....but just improving design ..The previous 108.9 i thought was responsive enough just skiped like a school girl on speedbest thing iv heard all night, i can now go to bed in peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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