cant_ride Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi all, I posted up a few months ago asking for a bit of input on my project.. thanks to the 1 person that replied! Better than none! Here's another chance.. The project is getting pretty close to being finished and I have a few images of the lever unit as it is at the moment. Please, any comments or criticisms are welcome from everyone regardless of age, background, sexual preference etc. at the end of the, its people like you guys that it would have to sell to. Unfortunately I'm in negotiations with an undisclosed manufacturer so I can't actually legally tell you how it works, but if you figure it out for yourself thats fine. Just let me know what you think of the overall look of it.. imagine the colours and surface finishes exactly as you would have them as these have not yet been finalised. (Yes I know it looks a bit HOPEish but thats half the point of the project.. again.. not really allowed to explain)CheersOli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 That looks good, I like it.How come two axis though? One way for power, one way for modulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant_ride Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 That looks good, I like it.How come two axis though? One way for power, one way for modulation?Operation of both brakes from one lever on one side of the bars. (Primarily designed for the disability market)Oli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cai Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 So can you can push this lever blade downwards and also in towards the bar, and this is the reason for the 2 cables?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I see, clever idea.I presume you can go both ways at once to apply front and rear brakes?Would be clever if you could incorporate a similar system as the Avid Juicy lever and flip the lever upside down and run the body on the other side. Would save producing a left and right hand model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Harding Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 So this is what youve been working on for months, looks ace . Might by luke one for his bday haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant_ride Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) Would be clever if you could incorporate a similar system as the Avid Juicy lever and flip the lever upside down and run the body on the other side. Would save producing a left and right hand model.Everything can be used on either side for that very reason (well noticed!!) except the lever blade which is quite a specialist and important shape.taOli Edited April 1, 2009 by cant_ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Looks like you've got it covered What's the piston movement like? Suited towards HS33s or disks where they have much less stroke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant_ride Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) Looks like you've got it covered What's the piston movement like? Suited towards HS33s or disks where they have much less stroke?This particular model is suited for HS33 (14 mm diameter cylinder) Piston stroke up to 20mm, optimal at 12mm. The concept itself can work equally well for Rim brakes, discs and even cable pull.. I just havnt bothered with any others yet (you can clearly see that there's a lack of reservoir)The product also uses a number of existing magura specific components negating the need to product more and it is suitable for retro-fitting to HS33, echo, etc. calipers.Keep the questions coming.. helps me see if I've got everything covered!Oli Edited April 1, 2009 by cant_ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ace. I like the fact that you'll be able to fit it without removing the grips too, why aren't all levers like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Is the lever blade that short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant_ride Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Ace. I like the fact that you'll be able to fit it without removing the grips too, why aren't all levers like that!Tell me about it! I can't imagine how many times I've had to remove my grips during this project.. easily 50+ ( mainly due to my lack of sense)Is the lever blade that short?I'm not really allowed to discuss dimensions etc. BUT.. how 'short' do you think it is?Oli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I like it, I think you've got a good idea. Whats the competition, has anybody made anything similar? I know luke runs a splitter to both brakes from one lever, but this way would give you a lot more control.I need to think of something to do for my final year engineering degree project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant_ride Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) I like it, I think you've got a good idea. Whats the competition, has anybody made anything similar? I know luke runs a splitter to both brakes from one lever, but this way would give you a lot more control.I need to think of something to do for my final year engineering degree project!Only a couple of low quality products for general use, and for cable brakes only. Hose splitting works but is bad news for competitive disciplines. We need pretty hot rear brake control where as DH and XC rely really heavily on front braking alone.. individual control was always a big factor.Believe it or not there's a huge demand for Anti-lock bicycle brakes - theres an engineering project.. pretty small scale though. God knows why people can't just squeeze the brakes a little less?Thanks for good comments so far!Oli Edited April 2, 2009 by cant_ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 To me the lever blade looks ugly, something more thin'ish/sleek look. Yeah the blade does look short compare to other lever blades but that might be because of the image. Nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 are the pivots run on bushings or bearings like a code lever? i can imagine that bushings would wear pretty quickly with constant force being applied on the 2 axis. just would make for a smooth lever action with no play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Is not the leverage on the rear brake (or whichever you choose underneath) a lot lot less ?And is it actually possible for a human to press down and only down without it being very uncomfortable ? Looks pretty good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt rushton Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 One pipe to each magura piston? Would that make it stupidly good, or just no differnt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 One pipe to each magura piston? Would that make it stupidly good, or just no differnt?I think you've missed the point a littleLooks cool, but I'm gonna have to go with Rowan on this - I can't see it being all that easy to push down to use whichever brake (I assume the front would generally go in this position?)Have you had the chance to knock one up and get it tried? I understand you're on a design course but it'd be cool to see if it can actually work. Props for giving it a jolly good bash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Very nice setup - is the lever closed system only or is there an open system option. If it's closed system you're pretty much stuck with HS33's unless it's for trials only where brake fluid heating is less of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMack Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 You should probably try reading the topic all the way through,This particular model is suited for HS33 (14 mm diameter cylinder) Piston stroke up to 20mm, optimal at 12mm. The concept itself can work equally well for Rim brakes, discs and even cable pull.. I just havnt bothered with any others yet (you can clearly see that there's a lack of reservoir) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I think the pushing down cylinder would be good as a featherer for front brakes as rowan said, its not the strongest movement the human finger can do. I've just been "air-braking" now and seen that it is possible though. Forgive the shite anatomical terms here, but when people brake with a normal lever, they use the "last" part of their finger which naturally curls up when you try to pull it. The pushing down lever would simply use the next segment down on the index finger, which is curled up and almost gives a grip to the lever?I don't know maybe Im over thinking it. I can see what rowan means though, the pushing down bit is not going to be nearly as poweful as the normal levery bit, but still I really like the idea. Id almost like to try one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Neal Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Is not the leverage on the rear brake (or whichever you choose underneath) a lot lot less ?And is it actually possible for a human to press down and only down without it being very uncomfortable ? Looks pretty good thoughThats what I was thinking, due to the piviot placement, pushing down would not only have less force from the finger but less force because of where the piviot is. (I'd like to try one first before sticking by that comment but from looking at it, thats my first reaction).Is there a TPA for both brakes as I prefer my back brake with a bit less pull that the front (picky I know), also for pad wear?Lever looks like a good shape for pulling and pushing down. Looks way better than anything else that is on the market at present. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 As far as I'm aware there is nothing like this on the market - most people looking to use two brakes with one hand stack multiple levers at one side of the bar. I use dual control shifters/brakes on my bike and you'd be surprised how hard you can push down on the brake lever. Tweaking the lever movement/piston movement ratio for the downward lever movement vs. the backward movement could balance brake power even better come to think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant_ride Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Hi, Thanks for all the discussion and comments. Its been really helpful so far. I'll try to answer all the questions so far: The leverage for the 'weak' brake (the one you push down) gives a mechanical advantage of 6.5 .. roughly the same as that of a regualr HS33. So the strong brakle has MORE leverage rather than the weak brake having less. Matt Rushton... It would make it exactly the same as two conventional brakes with only your own physiological operation changing the braking power. Luke Rainbird... All I can say is, it works. I have experimental rigs and a SLM prototype to prove it. PaRtz... Pretty much spot on with all of that. At the end of the day, the pushing down force is amplified by a factor 6.5 creating 128 lbs/in^2 on the rim... 12 less than a conventional magura (at the strength I pull it with anyways) Jamie_Neal... It has the same set up as hope and shimano disc levers where the pad travel is adjusted by a 2mm allen key.. no TPA im afraid. (Too many patents!!!) Finally, a general point: It is primarily a disability product and so some loss of braking power over existing systems is to be expected (although not very much in my case) It has been designed so that you may choose which motion operates which brake so that it can be used cross-discipline. I've sorted out legal issues with my manufacturer so I'm not 100% free to discuss everything if you needed to know more.Oli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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