Grinds.

[Aaron.Tottman]

i've seen lots of talk bout 'grinds'

i really can't see the point unless your riding comps or in the rain.

it's effort, recks/weakens your rim, runs pads out too quick and generally don't last long

light grinds still slip anyway so might as well use a tiny bit of tar.

anyone else feel the same?

if not.......WHY? enlighten me!!!

[grant_hundley]

simply because they make your brake work in more conditions.

if you had smooth rim and tar your brake might just slip out due to a bit of moisture on the rim. with a grind you have that confidence it'll work all the time

[Jason222]

Grinds are a lot more powerful than tar alone, and grinds don't become sticky like tar does. Put a deep grind in your rim, get a good set of pads, and you'll be set for 5+ months.

[liam-pantera]

breaking is due to friction , if the surface of the rim is rougher it bites into the pad creating better hold .

thats the science basically , but if you have the right pads and you grind your rim the performance will be noticed instantly .

( sorry if spellings wrong or it don't make sense i have been drinking )

[Dave Anscombe]

Ground rim...can just about cope in dusty conditions.......smooth rim has no chance .

like wise in the rain.

light grind and a soft compund pad....can hold pretty dam beasty .

breaking is due to friction , if the surface of the rim is rougher it bites into the pad creating better hold .

thats the science basically , but if you have the right pads and you grind your rim the performance will be noticed instantly .

( sorry if spellings wrong or it don't make sense i have been drinking )

Smooth rim with tar.......plenty of friction dude.... its like rubber on rubber

[Ash-Kennard]

i found i broke rims before the sidewall failed anyway, so having a generally nicer brake all the time is worth doing

[forteh]

The weakening of the rim is negligable, on my dx32 a medium grind will last a good 3-4 months and I would expect at least 12-15 medium grinds out of it, Ive just replaced my heatsink red pads (with some heatsink yellows) they were a year old and still have 2-3mm of material left (thats after sanding 3mm off them to get them to fit my frame/rim )

If your light grind is still slipping then you need different pads, that is of course assuming that your grind is sharp not dull

My front rim was smooth running coustsink vees and it worked pretty well, when I went up to lee mill with bigman last october he put the lightest of light grinds on there (literally 1 grinder mark every 5-10mm, he span the wheel and touched the grinder on for a second) and the brake was transformed; works exactly the same in wet or dry, the hold is tremendous and it still has loads of useable modulation. That grind has lasted for the last 6 months.

[Aaron.Tottman]

simply because they make your brake work in more conditions.

if you had smooth rim and tar your brake might just slip out due to a bit of moisture on the rim. with a grind you *have that confidence it'll work all the time*

like i said 'unless your riding in rain or comps'

Grinds are a lot more powerful than tar alone, and grinds don't become sticky like tar does. Put a deep grind in your rim, get a good set of pads, and you'll be set for 5+ months.

don't believe it, get so much more bite using tar alone. i use koxx bloxx with the TINIEST bit of tar. i might as well eat it and breath on the rim.

can't say that i've experienced much slip in damp (say after rain) or any slip in dusty conditions.

i will admit modulation over bite is far better than tar alone.

don't think i explained my self enough. i can clearly see the advantages of using a grind, just not all the time!

*but surely if your using grinds all the time you become dependant onit so making you sloppy when it comes to bigger gaps/hop-ups.

to put it another way, you don't get used to landing ontop of an obstical, more playing with tyre edge.

if you don't use it all the time, when you do use it your a better rider for the experience. kinda the same with brakeless riding.*

never seen rowan use a grind and look how smooth he is!!!

Edited March 21, 2009 by Aaron.gloster

[Nick Manning]

Everyone has different preferences. But by the point your trying to make surely, you should stop using that small amount of tar.

I use a grind with phat pads and CNC backings, I use this set up because I know whatever the weather I can be sure my brake is going to hold. With a smooth rim there is no gurantee, and with tar, personally your risking your personal safety. The slightest bit of moisture on a smooth rim, with or without tar and your brake slips.

As for not relying on the brake to become a better rider, there are other ways of doing that.

Eg: if gapping, then aiming to land more on top with a lower front wheel to use less brake but increase tyre grip.

If sidehopping, landing two wheels on top using no brakes or minimal brakes.

If you've noticed, there is a pattern emerging. To do what you've suggested would risk ourselves so much more than we already do when riding, no matter if it's a comp or just street riding.

All riders like to know that they can rely on there bike to hold up during a move/section, many parts of the bike are vital to prevent injury, but the one that only you as a rider can improve is how reliable your brake is.

I feel 100% happy that I'm not risking my personal safety with my brake set-up when riding.

Can you the same about yours?

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

Best soulution is get disk brakes

[Muel]

Best soulution is get disk brakes

No it's not, lots of people don't like discs because the wheel flexes too much and the frame can flex more. I ran double disc mods for at least a year, then I got a double disc stock and the flex was just too much, so I got a maggy, which is far better on a stock IMO.

[Oli P]

Sorry it slightly off topic but at the moment im runnung a smooth rear rim with onza limey pads and when the rim gets wet i get a dark black substance on the rim, it makes the brake a lot worse and when it drys the only way to get it of is to sand it off. I was just woundering if you get this on a grind or not.

[Nick Manning]

I may be wrong, but the black substance sounds like it could just be brake dust. If you have a mtb with v-brakes the brake dust stays around the brake pads and rims, not normally noticeable though untill the rim and pads get wet. The brake dust does effect brake performance quite alot when wet. On a grind you will get brake dust, but the amount depends on how soft or hard the pad compund is, but generally I've only ever seen a dirty rim with a grind when wet, when it's been ridden through bog style mud.

Riding in lots of wet mud is the only downfall to having a grind as the mud gets compressed into the gaps of the rim that the grinding disc has made. This results in your rim pretty much becoming smooth and your brake being less effective. In this case a disc is much better as it's designed to work better in these conditions.

If you want a reliable brake, you've gotta consider what conditions your riding in most. If it's dry conditions with the exception of rain, then a grind with which ever type of pad works for you. if it's muddy conditions, more to the point wet mud - boggy conditions then a disc is your best bet.

Hope that helps.

[eskimo]

Can't beat unground coloured surface though for looking good.

[Oli P]

I may be wrong, but the black substance sounds like it could just be brake dust. If you have a mtb with v-brakes the brake dust stays around the brake pads and rims, not normally noticeable though untill the rim and pads get wet. The brake dust does effect brake performance quite alot when wet. On a grind you will get brake dust, but the amount depends on how soft or hard the pad compund is, but generally I've only ever seen a dirty rim with a grind when wet, when it's been ridden through bog style mud.

Riding in lots of wet mud is the only downfall to having a grind as the mud gets compressed into the gaps of the rim that the grinding disc has made. This results in your rim pretty much becoming smooth and your brake being less effective. In this case a disc is much better as it's designed to work better in these conditions.

If you want a reliable brake, you've gotta consider what conditions your riding in most. If it's dry conditions with the exception of rain, then a grind with which ever type of pad works for you. if it's muddy conditions, more to the point wet mud - boggy conditions then a disc is your best bet.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Nick, iv been thinking about getting a small grind for a while and as most of the time i ride on hard ground iv been putting it off and now iv statred doing HBTC i think ill give it a go but will have to watch out for the deep mud. Also will give me more confidence when riding in wet conditions so i can get out and ride more.

[gr8grumble]

the topic starter is gay..

get a grind you faggot.

[Krisboats]

the topic starter is gay..

get a grind you faggot.

Chill out mate, not really helping anything is it?

Tar runs out too quick, it's inconsistent, messy and just another thing that I'll probably lose while I'm out riding. For the sake of spending 2-3 minutes grinding my rim ready for a couple of months hassle free riding I get to skip spending 2 minutes reapplying tar to my rim ever hour or so during a ride. Having to bed it in so its even before i can ride without it either still slipping or failing to let go and then all i have to worry about losing is my nerve or my multitool.

[mad max]

Tar runs out too quick, it's inconsistent, messy and just another thing that I'll probably lose while I'm out riding. For the sake of spending 2-3 minutes grinding my rim ready for a couple of months hassle free riding I get to skip spending 2 minutes reapplying tar to my rim ever hour or so during a ride. Having to bed it in so its even before i can ride without it either still slipping or failing to let go and then all i have to worry about losing is my nerve or my multitool.

All of the above and:

Tar is to sticky, It's either on or off. i like the bit in the middle.

[Aaron.Tottman]

Everyone has different preferences. But by the point your trying to make surely, you should stop using that small amount of tar.

I use a grind with phat pads and CNC backings, I use this set up because I know whatever the weather I can be sure my brake is going to hold. With a smooth rim there is no gurantee, and with tar, personally your risking your personal safety. The slightest bit of moisture on a smooth rim, with or without tar and your brake slips.

As for not relying on the brake to become a better rider, there are other ways of doing that.

I feel 100% happy that I'm not risking my personal safety with my brake set-up when riding.

Can you the same about yours?

to a sertan extent...yes, but i can see where your coming from though. but i've more injuries from tyre slip than brake slip(broken ribs recently, brake locked fine, tyre slipped from underneith me ona painted rail).

i'll try what you said but alt' techs!

Best soulution is get disk brakes

thought bout that.....

No it's not, lots of people don't like discs because the wheel flexes too much and the frame can flex more. I ran double disc mods for at least a year, then I got a double disc stock and the flex was just too much, so I got a maggy, which is far better on a stock IMO.

....now changed my mind, good point!!!

the topic starter is gay..

get a grind you faggot.

try telling the missus that. prefer sausages in gravey to faggots!!! mmm lovely!!!

everyones oppinion counts but you must have really low self asteam (or no balls) to want to cause arguements (throw insults) like that.

(not just my oppinion there......no offence!!!)

All of the above and:

Tar is to sticky, It's either on or off. i like the bit in the middle.

i agree in all fairness.

all opinions taken into account. at least i can see why they're so popular.

think i'll stick to griding once ina blue moon. it's works for me!

thanx for everyone contebution!!!! much help!!!

[Jordan GU]

Best soulution is get disk brakes

Hes right lol. I run maggie's :$

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

Best soulution is get disk brakes

Even better soulution, get a mod

[PaRtZ]

I was never able to get a good rear brake on a mod for some reason, not in comparison to my stock brake, but a harsh grind + coust pad/phat pad seems to be the winner for me

As said (but i'll say it again anyway) Grinding increases surface area so as the brake cylinder presses the deformable brake pad against the rim, it has more area to grip on and more directions rather than just perpendicular to the rim (I.E. On microscopic levels, and exagerrated, the brake pad can deform so that it directly impedes the direction on rotation of the rim)

Tar is the work of the devil. The amount you need to get a brake that works as well as a good grind + pads is the same amount that grabs your brake too much and makes you eat shit

Its seriously the way to go. Yes its alot of effort but you can go so much extremer