sayshell Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I am considering buying titanium spokes. From my experience my titanium spindle is just as strong as a steel one but a lot lighter, same with all other titanium parts I have used however spokes are different because they take tensile strength. I notice viz sells titanium spokes in mod lengths. Anyone know anything about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I had Monty TI spokes, they're alright on the front, and they last well if it's a decent built with Brass nipples (Alloy ones corrode onto them really badly from my experience).They don't like being bent at all though. Once I snapped one, I had to bend the new one to get it in, after that I was replacing 2-3 every ride. Luckily I had a spare set from when I bought a second hand Monty TI wheel, once I used up all the spares, I got Mutiny ones, the wheel was instantly a LOT stiffer and stronger. It probably added 50-100g, but that sort of saving isn't worth it when your spokes keep snapping IMO.I'll never have them again, far too much trouble if you ask me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Probably best to run them on the frontwheel and use tradition stainless steel spokes on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMack Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) It probably added 50-100gFrom my findings from building BMX and trials wheels, a standard set of 36 spokes long enough for a 3x wheel (so about 184-186mm) weighs about 160g.Nipples on the other hand, alloys weigh about 10g for a set, brass weigh about 35g.EDIT: What I was trying to imply was that Ti spokes probably save about 50g, although I can't be 100% sure. Edited March 19, 2009 by JonMack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendy Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Ti spokes will corrode badly with alloy nipples and once they 'jam up' wheels tend to die. If you do get Ti spokes make sure you use grease on the nipples and go for brass ones.Some Titanium alloys have much greater tensile yield stress than stainless steel but (I'm not dead sure on this.) Titanium is more brittle meaning if the spokes get bent about to much they will snap it will also mean there impact properties aren't as good. Id just like to say iv not used Ti spokes though I was just repeating what i have heard about them or know about Ti.Have you thought of using triple butted spokes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Ti spokes will corrode badly with alloy nipples and once they 'jam up' wheels tend to die. If you do get Ti spokes make sure you use grease on the nipples and go for brass ones.Some Titanium alloys have much greater tensile yield stress than stainless steel but (I'm not dead sure on this.) Titanium is more brittle meaning if the spokes get bent about to much they will snap it will also mean there impact properties aren't as good. Id just like to say iv not used Ti spokes though I was just repeating what i have heard about them or know about Ti.Have you thought of using triple butted spokes?Good because you're wrong GENERALLY speaking (and that's improtant because we're talking alloys of which there are infinite combinations) titanium alloys are ~10% weaker than steel.I don't know alot about Ti alloy properties but as you've reinforced above from what I've heard it seems to work harden quicker than steel and in spokes this results in spokes snapping sooner and being more brittle when bent/manipulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Good because you're wrong GENERALLY speaking (and that's improtant because we're talking alloys of which there are infinite combinations) titanium alloys are ~10% weaker than steel.I don't know alot about Ti alloy properties but as you've reinforced above from what I've heard it seems to work harden quicker than steel and in spokes this results in spokes snapping sooner and being more brittle when bent/manipulated.Are you on drugs? The yield stress of commercially pure (non alloyed) titanium is comparable to 4130 chromoly steel, 3al-2.5v titanium about 30% higher and 6al-4v is near enough double that of steel Most ti frames are manufactured from 3al-2.5v or a comparable and most components (BB, axles etc) are from 6al-4v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Currently rocking 28h with a 160bb7 and i used them spokes from one of my rear bmx wheels. Alloy nipples as well. Holding up good especially being used with a disc. But i'm not poppin down gaps to front wheel. Few stoppies, up to front, the usual. Have you seen the spokes anywhere on sale, or just their site? Loads of decent sizes too. Though i don't think i'd pay £5 a piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 titanium is the coolest metal ever....but having seen tom rankin break 8 spokes at once doing a wheelswap...well for the record..i love Ti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixed Pants™ Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Ti is brittle so it's not a great thing to use as spokes. Damn light though. Edited March 20, 2009 by Fixed Pants™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 don't go making wild statements like that...Ti is whatever you want it to be ok?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 TI isn't brittle at all, it work hardens and can become brittle. Which is why after about a year Monty TI wheels fall apart!(I realise that's also a pretty bold statement, I was just referring to the grade used in spokes.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 yeah errrr....nobut the end result is the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayshell Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I just buy everything from biketrialstation they sell all viz produts. For 100 titanium spokes it will proabaly cost 10$. I guess I will pass on them though. I really dont like the idea of spokes breaking especially when i have a rear freewheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Are you on drugs? The yield stress of commercially pure (non alloyed) titanium is comparable to 4130 chromoly steel, 3al-2.5v titanium about 30% higher and 6al-4v is near enough double that of steel Most ti frames are manufactured from 3al-2.5v or a comparable and most components (BB, axles etc) are from 6al-4v.No, are you? If what you said was true then titanium components could be 1/4 of the weight of steel equivalents. Yield stress is measured in pressure, which is force/area. NOT force/density. In which case you wouldn't have been talking complete bollocks In English terms, titanium is nearly (~10% like I said) as strong as steel, but around half the weight.You were suggesting that titanium is twice as strong whilst being half the weight, this is, unfortunately for us engineers, not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Some Titanium alloys have much greater tensile yield stress than stainless steel but (I'm not dead sure on this.)Good because you're wrong Are you on drugs? No, are you? you're talking about different things..? some Ti alloys DO have a greater yield than stainless- spokes are going to be stainless steel with a yield i guess around ~600MPa at the most...standard alpha/beta 6,4Ti alloy is ~900MPaand forteh probably knows way more about engineering than you do...?peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 you're talking about different things..? some Ti alloys DO have a greater yield than stainless- spokes are going to be stainless steel with a yield i guess around ~600MPa at the most...standard alpha/beta 6,4Ti alloy is ~900MPaand forteh probably knows way more about engineering than you do...?peaceI keep coming across conflicting data across the 'net atm so I'm gunna back out for now and not turn this discussion into an arguement. But I might be back!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 you're confusing yourself...tis not important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 you're talking about different things..? some Ti alloys DO have a greater yield than stainless- spokes are going to be stainless steel with a yield i guess around ~600MPa at the most...standard alpha/beta 6,4Ti alloy is ~900MPaand forteh probably knows way more about engineering than you do...?Nah, I know bugger all about engineering, somehow it funds my titanium bike fetish though to be honest I am pretty crap at the whole stress/strain bollocks, all of my stress lectures seemed to be at 9am the morning after student night hence I didnt usually pay full attention Besides which stainless is generally weaker than mild steel, whilst the alloying elements stop it corroding so much it reduces the strength.As a rule I work on: -Aluminium = 40% the weight of steelTitanium = 60% the weight of steelTi really isnt that light, makes me laugh when people spend a fortune on a headset with titanium cups when an aluminium one is lighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 oh...well i know you are a practising engineer of some kind...right? anyways...Ti = too expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 oh...well i know you are a practising engineer of some kind...right? anyways...Ti = too expensive Ti = difference between the workers and the bums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 oh...well i know you are a practising engineer of some kind...right? anyways...Ti = too expensive Yeah Im practising at engineering all the time Still not perfected it yet though For reference I design sewage treatment equipment yay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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