Why Is Trials Not Bmx?

[Davetrials]

Im current sat on pinkbike.com watching the brighton aint ready DVD and ive just watched the props megatour 8 dvd, these videos are AMAZING the riders are constantly pushing the limits of bmx.

and the brighton aint ready dvd, is a shit load of huge names in bmx living in a house together for one month sessioning brighton.

another one in ride magazine recently, was 6 teams i think all from different sponsors got sent around england to ride with a check list, of tricks to do and task to complete, the dvd was awsome and it looked awsome.

why is trials NOTHING like this, why do the pros seem to want nothing to do with the street scene or having fun, its all comp comp comp.

Maybe this is the reason bmx is so huge, Cos its out there, trials is like a shady hidden sport nobody knows about. S:

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Yeah but if you think about it... take a load of trials riders and get them to ride Brighton for a few weeks and you'd end up with gap, gap, tap, sidehop, rolling gap, tap etc. Stick Danny Mac in the mix and you'd spice it up though but then he's not the compy pro you're talking about. I just don't think trials (i.e. traditional trials) really lends itself to being a spectator sport.

However, I understand that Danny Mac is making a DVD at the moment with the help of a pro BMXer so that could be something special!

[Joe Papasnap Maher]

Link to the said vids dave please.

[mr ailsbury]

Trials is like golf and BMX is like Football.

BMX is so popular because it makes it easier to pull Emo girls. That's litterally the only reason.

[Thom]

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/63732/

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/63742/

[Davetrials]

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/63742/ Props mega tour

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/63732/ <brighton aint ready

[Mark W]

Trials is like golf and BMX is like Football.

BMX is so popular because it makes it easier to pull Emo girls. That's litterally the only reason.

Ha, the irony. In which sport do people dress up in team strips, try and be 'pro' (Riding street in pixie boots and team jerseys? Really?), get concerned exclusively with winning comps, give a shit about measuring how 'big' they can go to try and impress other people? Hint, it's not an acronym.

The reason trials isn't like that is that the only thing more limited than trials bikes themselves are the minds of their riders. It's for that reason that something like Brighton Ain't Ready (6 months, not 1) wouldn't work with trials. No-one's really willing to push themselves and try DIFFERENT things. There's virtually no individual style, which is why when you get riders like Danny Mac, Chris Akrigg et al everyone makes a massive deal of it, talks about them like they're the second coming of Christ, etc., then do absolutely nothing to try and take hints from those guy's riding to further improve their own. Everyone's into Danny Mac's riding it seems, yet no-one seems to be doing anything other than taps, gaps and sidehops. The bikes are probably the biggest problem though, in that they're incredibly specialised. BMXs are still relatively specialised, but I could (and do) ride my bike on street, vert, park or dirt with no hassle. Trials bikes are pretty f**king awful for anything other than riding street trials or comps (Seriously, they're NOT good for riding park on, and the sooner people get themselves on BMXs, think "Man, this feels 100 times better" the better), and as a result they fully limit people's styles. But mostly, it just seems to be people's mindsets.

I think it'd be a massive improvement for the scene if people would actually try and do what BMXers do and actually explore the places they're going to, or in. I've said it time and time again on the London ride threads - there's so much amazing street that's within a 10-15min ride of Southbank and St.Pauls, but again, like everything else in trials, everyone just sticks with the tried and tested easy way of going about doing things.

Maybe this is the reason bmx is so huge, Cos its out there, trials is like a shady hidden sport nobody knows about. S:

No, I'd imagine it's more to do with more expensive bikes, the perception of trials being all lycra and pixie boots, the fact that trials simply doesn't look as good as BMX, etc. It's hard for the general public to appreciate technical riding (Which holds true in BMX - people are more impressed by someone doing, say, a flip than a nose manual to bars out), which is why demo riders seem to always get reduced to the same menial type of riding instead of pushing themselves and doing more tech stuff. That's not really the point though - trials won't be as big as BMX because it seems less accessible, less fashionable, less 'cool', less scope for doing your own thing, more expensive and they're just not as much fun to ride around on as BMXs.

EDIT: Did you like Megatour8? I really wasn't into it

[zoster]

i was also wondering why 24" street-trials is unfortunately quite far away from the stuff bmx-ers do (pro ones i mean).

Don't get me wrong, i love 24" street-trials, i think it's great to be able to combine both worlds, and it's amazing the stuff that they do, but looking at the pros in street-trials and comparing their street moves with the ones of pro bmx-ers, there is quite a difference in amplitude, complexity, flow..

what i am wondering is if the limitation is due to the bike, meaning on a 24" street-trials bike, you can't really go much further in terms of bmx-like moves, or is it the riders, considering (and i might be wrong), that sponsored pro bmx riders, are a lot more .. how should i put this...implicated in riding. i mean it in the sense that they don't really do much else, except practicing all day, where as guys like danny mac maybe have other stuff to do, like a job, or collage or something, and they just ride as much as they can in their spare time. but again, i might be wrong about both "parties".

[Damon W]

Trials is like golf and BMX is like Football.

BMX is so popular because it makes it easier to pull Emo girls. That's litterally the only reason.

exactly, bmx'ers dress like emo's (usually) dont ware lids, and can ride to places faster,, and ride about faster

trials riders (a few few anyway) ware lids, dress like clowns and hop around like pojo sticks merrrrrrt, totally NOT cool

at the end of the day things that go fast and fly in the air will always win over the crowd, hence moto x and things like that being such a spectator sport

i guess aswell its hard to appreciatte the difficulty of smaller more technical things for spectators, were as something easy like a 10ft drop will get them all workd up and think were cool

ahhhhhhhhhhh the amount of times people hav said "ere merrttt ur that kid on the bike rnt u"

me : "yerrrrr the bmx guy?? thats me"

emo girls, spesh the younger ones seem to really dig bmxers, so on certain occasions i become a bmx'er..

[Matt Vandart]

It's hard for the general public to appreciate technical riding (Which holds true in BMX - people are more impressed by someone doing, say, a flip than a nose manual to bars out), which is why demo riders seem to always get reduced to the same menial type of riding instead of pushing themselves and doing more tech stuff.

That really is the point though Mark. When me and the kids went to see Martin Ashton on the relentless tour in Abberystwyth he was doin "Trials stuff" and people were loving it, but when he cracked out the 24 and started doing flips the crowd went mad. They just didn't get how much harder it is to ride in a controlled manner as used in trials than to just all out go like f**k and flip it.

Now I can't do flips, but a mate of mine in Swansea that is shit hot on a BMX, did his first flip, he said it was easy once he had the balls to do it. That was the hardest bit.

Now I've seen him do mad shit, like doing free fall 40 ft drops down the side of a quarry into a seriously small runout with a river to jump over about 20ft away from the runout, and just do it, like that. I said to him,

"Ed, how the f**k do you have the balls to do things like that?"

His answer.

"Well I know I'm going to do it some day so I might as well do it now"

When I started riding trials again, I rang up Ed and asked him if he wanted to give it a go.

His answer.

"No way man, last time I tried it I fell off a bench and nailed myself" WTF?

The point I am trying to make in a very round about way is, trials is hard, no two ways about it. It's hard to learn, it's hard to create new things, and it's hard on your body. The general public just don't get it.

Ryan Leech says the most popular part of his show is the high jump on one of his videos, and he sounds really puzzled when he says it. This is because he knows that some of the other shit he does in his show is much harder and the public just don't understand and that puzzles him.

Anyway I'm babbleing now, I'll shut up.

Matt

[Davetrials]

EDIT: Did you like Megatour8? I really wasn't into it

Yer it was sweet, kyle pontyeyeyeter, is f**king awsome.

what was the vid called that came with ride a few months ago with the challenges?

[Ali C]

It annoys me slightly when people say "trials clothing looks shit", "people shouldn't wear pixie boots". To me trials is a competition sport, much like running, swimming, road and track cycling. You don't see people ripping into the clothing that Chris Hoy wears?

Much the same it annoys me when people say competition riders arnt cool and take things too seriously. Most comp riders I know are really friendly, mature and well spoken and are the friendliest people in the sport, you sometimes get the odd agressive rider or shout (I have done my fair share when failing a section) but its like that at the top of any sport.

I agree with Mark about people only seem to do that same sidehop/gap/tap (hence TGS) time after time. I can't imagine how boring that must be? But I also want people to understand that comp riders are some of the more imaginative riders out there, working out exactly the best way to make it up a rockface, or across a a man made section within a time limit and saving the most energy<<<Thats what its all about for me, working out a puzzle rather than trying the most daringly biggest sidehop or gap.

I would love to be as good as some of the bmxers there are now, but to me its all far too dangerous to be worth the risk.

Errm, not sure if any of that made sense, so I'll try and bullet point my main views:

*don't complain about how trials clothing looks you vein fashion munchers! If you do want to complain, why don't you wright to any sport that looks silly (horse riding, swimming, track cycling etc)

*Just because some riders don't ride like Danny Mac and akkers don't think they are not imaginative when riding. Mainly talking about comp riders who have to pick the best lines in a comp or when riding natural.

*I am sure I had another point somwhere

[psycholist]

Sport is about doing - not watching. If you like to ride BMX then ride BMX. If you prefer trials then do that. Who cares whether it 'looks good' to other people?

[Mark W]

It annoys me slightly when people say "trials clothing looks shit", "people shouldn't wear pixie boots". To me trials is a competition sport, much like running, swimming, road and track cycling. You don't see people ripping into the clothing that Chris Hoy wears?

You wouldn't see that because Chris Boardman and British Cycling have worked really hard to make sure it's the most aerodynamic kit possible, and is completely optimum for Chris's riding. He actually wore the disabled athlete's kit at the '08 Olympics because he said he could move his legs up in the stroke fractionally easier. That kit is 100% designed for purpose, and offers a real advantage to them, which is again why their actual skinsuits at the Beijing games were burnt afterwards so no-one would know how they'd made them better. I somehow doubt that's quite the same as Koxx putting a f**king horrific logo on a generic pair of shorts, is it? (Same goes for swimming as well, seeing as you mentioned it. Again, thinking of the 'shark suit' they made for Ian Thorpe and some other swimmers (And for runners too, e.g. that woman who wore that 'hoody' sorta top to improve her aerodynamics))

When I'm saying trials clothes and shoes look shit, I'm not saying people shouldn't wear products that improve their riding, I just meant that they look awful. The designs are terrible for logos/colourways, the clothing generally looks pretty weird anyway (strange cuts), and trials shoes just look shit. That's obviously a personal preference again, but it also explains part of the image problem trials has. When people think of BMXers, they think jeans, T-shirt, hoody, flat-soled skate sorta shoes, which a lot of 'normal' people wear all the time. As a result, it seems more accessible to normal people, and is something they can relate to more.

EDIT: Re: Comp riders - how come so many riders copy other riders lines through sections? There's always riders watching other riders go through sections. I'd say that people who just go out and ride natural are probably more creative than comp riders just because you have more options, whereas with comps you're limited. It's still miles ahead of street in terms of how creative you have to be, but again, from my experiences at UK comps most people ride sections in the same way in the same style/manner.

[Davetrials]

Most comp riders I know are really friendly, mature and well spoken and are the friendliest people in the sport

sounds fun.. watching megatour, its full of banter and stuff, its the same at bmx comps.

nothing like trials, ive never seen anything close to banter at a comp before. thats why i hate comps so much, they bore the shit out of me.

[Matt Vandart]

It annoys me slightly when people say "trials clothing looks shit", "people shouldn't wear pixie boots". To me trials is a competition sport, much like running, swimming, road and track cycling. You don't see people ripping into the clothing that Chris Hoy wears?

Much the same it annoys me when people say competition riders arnt cool and take things too seriously. Most comp riders I know are really friendly, mature and well spoken and are the friendliest people in the sport, you sometimes get the odd agressive rider or shout (I have done my fair share when failing a section) but its like that at the top of any sport.

I agree with Mark about people only seem to do that same sidehop/gap/tap (hence TGS) time after time. I can't imagine how boring that must be? But I also want people to understand that comp riders are some of the more imaginative riders out there, working out exactly the best way to make it up a rockface, or across a a man made section within a time limit and saving the most energy<<<Thats what its all about for me, working out a puzzle rather than trying the most daringly biggest sidehop or gap.

I would love to be as good as some of the bmxers there are now, but to me its all far too dangerous to be worth the risk.

Errm, not sure if any of that made sense, so I'll try and bullet point my main views:

*don't complain about how trials clothing looks you vein fashion munchers! If you do want to complain, why don't you wright to any sport that looks silly (horse riding, swimming, track cycling etc)

*Just because some riders don't ride like Danny Mac and akkers don't think they are not imaginative when riding. Mainly talking about comp riders who have to pick the best lines in a comp or when riding natural.

*I am sure I had another point somwhere

Sport is about doing - not watching. If you like to ride BMX then ride BMX. If you prefer trials then do that. Who cares whether it 'looks good' to other people?

Very good points indeed, I wholeheartedly agree. There are a lot of "Lookers" in trials just check the recent London rides video posts.

On the point of trials clothing, some clothing is shit some isn't, however to young impressionable kids clothing and music are the beginning and end of their very existence, this should not be underestimated in attracting a new generation to the sport and how it effects the way it is perceived by said youngsters. I have seen a couple of posts on forums along the lines of "What clothing should I wear for trials?".

When you are young, being seen to be part of the "individuals together" collective is actually very important both in their heads and in reality. Kids which don't keep up with current "fashion" and "trends" are picked on and it does affect their lives in the long term.

Personally I have never given a shit. I didn't wear shoes till I was 8, not even to school (I lived in Australia) and could never care less what people thought about me so no-one f**ked with me. I still don't, I grew up as a scruffy Pikey and I'll always be one. But the vast majority of kids do, even if they won't admit it to themselves or anyone else.

BMX is much "cooler" than trials by miles and thats why it has a bigger following.

Having said that, remember the days of uniforms in BMX, that was way shitter than trials currently is.

BMX has made it to the olympics, it's only a matter of time...

Matt

[Davetrials]

Very good points indeed, I wholeheartedly agree. There are a lot of "Lookers" in trials just check the recent London rides video posts.

On the point of trials clothing, some clothing is shit some isn't, however to young impressionable kids clothing and music are the beginning and end of their very existence, this should not be underestimated in attracting a new generation to the sport and how it effects the way it is perceived by said youngsters. I have seen a couple of posts on forums along the lines of "What clothing should I wear for trials?".

When you are young, being seen to be part of the "individuals together" collective is actually very important both in their heads and in reality. Kids which don't keep up with current "fashion" and "trends" are picked on and it does affect their lives in the long term.

Personally I have never given a shit. I didn't wear shoes till I was 8, not even to school (I lived in Australia) and could never care less what people thought about me so no-one f**ked with me. I still don't, I grew up as a scruffy Pikey and I'll always be one. But the vast majority of kids do, even if they won't admit it to themselves or anyone else.

BMX is much "cooler" than trials by miles and thats why it has a bigger following.

Having said that, remember the days of uniforms in BMX, that was way shitter than trials currently is.

BMX has made it to the olympics, it's only a matter of time...

Matt

trials isnt even in the xgames yet, but scooter riding is

what are we doing wrong?

[manuel]

Sport is about doing - not watching. If you like to ride BMX then ride BMX. If you prefer trials then do that. Who cares whether it 'looks good' to other people?

I think I 100% disagree with that.

Sport is 100% to entertain. otherwise whats the point ? It serves no other function.

trials just shouldnt be compared to bmx - simple. Just like bmx is never compared to XC racing.

Trials has lost its way recently it seems as a "cool" sport mainly I think due to the bikes we ride. The move to a really crazy set up has hurt the trials image. I mean people just dont relate as well as if you were doing things on a bike that looked more normal to them.

[bikeperson45]

Trials shoudn't be compared to BMX, they're to different.

Trials is harder to get into, because of costs compared to a BMX, but people always seem to be impressed when they see me riding trials, i just think less people do it because it isn't as acsesssible than BMX where theres a larger community

Edited March 7, 2009 by bikeperson45

[Matt Vandart]

Scooter riding in the Olympics, now that is worth campaigning for for sure.

I'll tell you what, that fact is almost definitely due to scooter sales, man every kid has a micro scooter, I rekon theres big money in scooter manufacture.

Trials has lost its way recently it seems as a "cool" sport mainly I think due to the bikes we ride. The move to a really crazy set up has hurt the trials image. I mean people just dont relate as well as if you were doing things on a bike that looked more normal to them.

I hadn't thought of that but it is a very good point, when chavs ask where your seat is they are actually making a good point in a social perception context.

Matt

Edited March 7, 2009 by Matt Vandart

[totaltrials]

It's only got to be down to the amount of money and the amount of big companies willing to spend the money to push the sport. It's just not the same with trials.

[Ash-Kennard]

i reckon trials is becoming cool and only a matter of time before it starts to compete with bmx. but it isnt there yet. all the riders i go out with all wear jeans, shirt, hoodie, some in trials boots, but ribos look ok with jeans because the straps get covered my them. helmets are a necessity in trials and i think the older members of the public respect that fact. i see alot of kids 11,12,13,14 in fareham riding around on t-pros and t-birds just because they want to do what we can. and a push in the right direction is all they really need. all the little shits soon quit and the remainder love the attention and how the public DO look twice.

about comp riders, most comps are completely hidden away from spectator view, only those already involved in trials, or know someone who rides goes to them, so the sport can never expand while they are in this condition. we need more big events like the red bull bike battle and some sound riders to actually talk to the spectators in the sport and explain how they can get into the sport.

when i first started, it was a very underground sport, no one knew what trials was, now, the majority do. this is most probably due to the popularity of street riding in virtually every city across the UK

[grantham]

hmm intresting,

Trials doesn't have the money or sponsorship backing to pull something like that off I don't think.

Theres probably only around 4-5 riders in the whole world who could make a living riding just comps to be honest and that is risky, one injury and your screwed. Very few riders are on full time wages from a sponsor to. Therefore other riders must do demonstrations etc just to make their living, they are less likely to push themselves and get injured as again it means lost money. The window for making money is small as well with most riders making their money in the summer.

unfortunately it comes down to money in all cases I think. Although it would be cool to see, I think it would be difficult to get the top riders in the world to commit without the cash.

Mark as for comp riding surely you do the most efficient/ suitable way of doing something? which means that people will probably do things in th same way? Although i'm sure if you watch some of the top riders more closely you'll see massive differences in the way that they do things.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

There's also a big difference in the whole ethos behind BMX and trials. Take competitions as an example- BMX competitions are far more laid back 'jam' style things usually with all the riders congratulating each other for doing something good and having a laugh. Even at the biggest events like the X-Games they still (for the most part) just do their thing and although I'm sure they all take it really seriously they all seem to still be having fun and happy for each other if they get beaten. In trials it tends to be taken far more seriously, particularly once you get to National level comps. I know not all riders are the same but just seeing a couple of kids never smiling and being moaned at by their parents for messing up is enough to make me cringe at the sport.

Street riding is obviously vastly different but just due to the way trials is ridden (traditionally anyway) the way riders approach riding tends to be fairly similar. As Mark said, whether that's down to bike design or rider mentality I don't know but it's just how trials has been for a long time.

Don't know where I'm going with this.

[zoster]

There's also a big difference in the whole ethos behind BMX and trials. Take competitions as an example- BMX competitions are far more laid back 'jam' style things usually with all the riders congratulating each other for doing something good and having a laugh. Even at the biggest events like the X-Games they still (for the most part) just do their thing and although I'm sure they all take it really seriously they all seem to still be having fun and happy for each other if they get beaten. In trials it tends to be taken far more seriously, particularly once you get to National level comps. I know not all riders are the same but just seeing a couple of kids never smiling and being moaned at by their parents for messing up is enough to make me cringe at the sport.

Street riding is obviously vastly different but just due to the way trials is ridden (traditionally anyway) the way riders approach riding tends to be fairly similar. As Mark said, whether that's down to bike design or rider mentality I don't know but it's just how trials has been for a long time.

Don't know where I'm going with this.

it's easier to lack the competing instinct (that guys usually have) in bmx because it is a more creative sport, therefore everybody has his own style, so when somebody gets a higher place then you in a comp, you can say that he was just more impressive over all but you can do stuff that he can't, and vice-versa, so you're running on different tracks. trials is more pragmatic. you either put the foot down or don't. you can't really say "yeah, he didn't dab, but i was as elegant as a gazelle when i did that gap"