Ethics And Morality

[JD™]

Well, there ARE doctors who specialise in Anaesthetics alone

I'm sorry, but I have to clear this up again... You're telling me that there are people who literally just spend all day putting people into a sleep yes? And have no other interaction with patients? Because my girlfriend in med school says different, but she's generally full of shit so I don't know who to believe!

EDIT: and to top this, every time I've been put under it's been by the same doctor who's washed my wounds/assessed the breaks etc, which leads me to believe that although you are knowledgable, you're going slightly outside what you KNOW is true this time.

Edited March 9, 2009 by //JD

[Fixed Pants™]

Or the face job person could have been burnt WITH FIRE, saving loads of peoples lives, not just because she's ugly.

[JD™]

Or the face job person could have been burnt WITH FIRE, saving loads of peoples lives, not just because she's ugly.

#1 most insightful thing FP has said on TF in history.

This is such a true point... was the patient out battling the recent forest fires overseas for instance?

[Fixed Pants™]

YES, MAYBE.

[JD™]

YES, MAYBE.

GLEN, JON HAZ HAXORD UR TF ACCUNT

[Fixed Pants™]

NEGATIVE.

[sexymike]

there is absolutly no way anyone should/would kill her

end of.

[Haz]

there is absolutly no way anyone should/would kill her

end of.

Not until they raped her, sure.

[Matt Vandart]

Not until they raped her, sure.

That isn't even slightly funny.

Killing people isn't an easy thing to do whatever the situation.

Shooting someone with a MC116 sniper rifle at 400m is easier as you can dissociate yourself with the target.

Stabbing them up to death in an alley is more up close, personal and risky to yourself and any reason behind the motive being discovered.

Having control over whether you kill someone as an anesthetist is a big responsibility and probably most people on this forum havn't got what it takes to kill people anyway even in such a seemingly easy way.

Personally I would be inclined to run out naked like JD.

Best answer so far IMO

Matt

[Sneakers O'Toole]

Shooting someone with a MC116 sniper rifle at 400m is easier as you can dissociate yourself with the target.

Stabbing them up to death in an alley is more up close, personal and risky to yourself and any reason behind the motive being discovered.

Bollocks

[JonMack]

I'm sorry, but I have to clear this up again... You're telling me that there are people who literally just spend all day putting people into a sleep yes? And have no other interaction with patients? Because my girlfriend in med school says different, but she's generally full of shit so I don't know who to believe!

Yeah, haven't you ever seen Green Wing

[Mark W]

I'm sorry, but I have to clear this up again... You're telling me that there are people who literally just spend all day putting people into a sleep yes? And have no other interaction with patients? Because my girlfriend in med school says different, but she's generally full of shit so I don't know who to believe!

OBM's Word of the Day: Anaesthetists.

[JD™]

OBM's Word of the Day: Anaesthetists.

I dunno why you keep doing this directed at me recently, but it's starting to get a bit on the annoying side. Stop being overly pedantic and leaving yourself open to shit like this:

For the simple everyday example, it works the same in supermarkets. When I was working at Morrisons I had a 'specialist' task to be doing - namely cutting meat and fish - but when the business needed it (and/or when I had nothing else to do) I was able to go to the tills and help out there. If they had me on in purely a 'specialist' role, I would be a cost to the business when there was no meat to cut.

As the management team of a hospital, would you choose to have an anaesthetist on, solely for putting people to sleep and never to do anything else or someone who will look after other areas of peoples health and well being when they dont have anyone to anaesthetise?

Anaesthetists are a f**k load more expensive to have sitting around than supermarket staff.

A lot of the people on here are trials riders, does this mean that because they have specialised in one type of riding that they wont do any others?

Get the f**k off my back until you can think of where I might be coming from. Either that or find me someone who works solely as an anaesthetist and never does anything else - even though they'll have had to go the whole way through med school to learn all the other bits and pieces the same as everyone else.

[Rich Pearson]

Wiki Win

I'd say, by the sounds of things, just "putting people to sleep" is a bit of an understatement. So you're kind of both right, and wrong. Which is my favourite kind of wrong.

On a seperate note, I'm going under the knife in a couple of weeks to have an arthroscopy on my ankle, all I can say is after reading most of this topic, I am f**kING glad none of you bastards will have anything to do with it

And no, I wouldn't kill her, no one has the right to play God except the big man himself. And Danny Tipple.

Rich

[Tomm]

Get the f**k off my back until you can think of where I might be coming from.

You should really be warned for that. It's abusive enough as it is, even without considering that you're completely wrong.

Either that or find me someone who works solely as an anaesthetist and never does anything else - even though they'll have had to go the whole way through med school to learn all the other bits and pieces the same as everyone else.

There are thousands of anaesthetists in the UK. At the moment doctor's training involves 5 years (or more) at medical school, and then two 'foundation' years where you have to do a wide variety of different jobs. After that you would specialise into whatever you want (General practise, Surgery, dermatology etc etc) and anaesthetics is one such specialty you can go into. A lot of anaesthetists will do other stuff besides just 'putting people to sleep' - they will work on ITU (intensive care unit) or doing pain control clinics or whatever. Some will choose to ONLY do operating lists (putting people to sleep) though. As it happens it's actually what I want to do, so yes I'm pretty sure it exists as a job

EDIT: and to top this, every time I've been put under it's been by the same doctor who's washed my wounds/assessed the breaks etc

I don't really have an explanation for this, doesn't seem right to me at all. There is no way that the A&E (?!) doc or surgeon (?) that saw you would be the person putting you to sleep.

[JD™]

You should really be warned for that. It's abusive enough as it is, even without considering that you're completely wrong.

There are thousands of anaesthetists in the UK. At the moment doctor's training involves 5 years (or more) at medical school, and then two 'foundation' years where you have to do a wide variety of different jobs. After that you would specialise into whatever you want (General practise, Surgery, dermatology etc etc) and anaesthetics is one such specialty you can go into. A lot of anaesthetists will do other stuff besides just 'putting people to sleep' - they will work on ITU (intensive care unit) or doing pain control clinics or whatever. Some will choose to ONLY do operating lists (putting people to sleep) though. As it happens it's actually what I want to do, so yes I'm pretty sure it exists as a job

My god there is a f**k load of bullshit being spouted in here. I'm not going to say I'm 100% right, but I can only believe what I've been through myself. As I said, my girlfriend is in med school RIGHT NOW. Well actually, right this second she's in a hospital on a voluntary part time placement but that's besides the point. So I do believe that being with her the whole way through, helping her make the decisions etc has given me a fair amount of knowledge on the subject - again I will maintain that I'm not actually studying it myself so I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Yes, everyone who specialises in whatever they want to do after their foundation years will go on to do _mainly_ that in their full time job (psychiatry in her case) but you've basically helped prove my point by pointing out that everyone of them HAS to do the 5 years beforehand. As a hospital, why would you not use that general knowledge when the speciality skill is not needed?

I will state again, no matter how much an anaesthetist _wants_ to just 'put people to sleep' and only that - it's just not a luxury they have. At some point you WILL be required to do other tasks related to the general practise of being a doctor.

I don't really have an explanation for this, doesn't seem right to me at all. There is no way that the A&E (?!) doc or surgeon (?) that saw you would be the person putting you to sleep.

I don't really know how to put this, but were you there any of the times I've been in hospital? No. When I turned myself into scarface, for instance, there were a variety of nurses looking after me at the hospital (East Grinstead if you want to go check them out for breaking any other rules) but just one doctor. She lead the surgery and personally put the mask on my face which lead to me falling under. I can't remember her name, but I'm sure I could find out if you want to go so far as to check my story checks out?

It's quite funny that 2 of the people I respect the most on here are just trying to make me out to look like a complete prat. It's a shame as far as I'm concerned. If I get a ban for this I also think that would be completely ridiculous, because I'm just debating something and I don't feel I'm giving out any personal attacks.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

If you desire to chuck toys from the pram, please have the good grace to do it somewhere else, you've destroyed your own credibility here by acting like an idiot. Come back with an argument that isn't akin to swiss cheese and you might get taken seriously.

Tomm, I thought you were going in for a GP position?

[JD™]

If you desire to chuck toys from the pram, please have the good grace to do it somewhere else, you've destroyed your own credibility here by acting like an idiot. Come back with an argument that isn't akin to swiss cheese and you might get taken seriously.

Tomm, I thought you were going in for a GP position?

What credibility? I've never had any here because I don't suck mod dick. My argument in this thread is completely watertight, no-one has come here with any personal experience that says I'm wrong, and until they do I will continue to believe that my facts are indeed facts. I'm not stupid enough to not admit when I'm wrong, and when someone comes here and proves it I'll be glad to put my tail between my legs and crawl under a rock somewhere.

[Tomm]

I will state again, no matter how much an anaesthetist _wants_ to just 'put people to sleep' and only that - it's just not a luxury they have. At some point you WILL be required to do other tasks related to the general practise of being a doctor.

Erm, it was you who was using the phrase 'putting people to sleep'. I only used that term when I was dumbing it down for you. Of course it's more complicated than that. Wikipedia says: "Anesthesiologists are perioperative physicians ("peri-" meaning "all-around") who provide medical care to patients before, during, and after their surgical procedure." However, like I said, a lot (if not most) will be invovled in other things (E.g. ITU medicine).

They put people to sleep, and they also manage the patients while they're asleep, any complications. They need years of medical school because human physiology is kinda complicated, and anaethetists basically have to know physiology inside-out. You seem to think that 'putting people to sleep' for an operation involves a bit of NO and a bedtime story.

I'm not stupid enough to not admit when I'm wrong

Dr Nick - Nah, GP is about the bottom of my list of stuff I want to do. Maybe slightly higher than Obs&Gynae and psychiatry, haha. Hospital medicine for the win.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

Fair enough, it's all about the brain surgery man, get in on the action.

[JD™]

Erm, it was you who was using the phrase 'putting people to sleep'. I only used that term when I was dumbing it down for you. Of course it's more complicated than that. Wikipedia says: "Anesthesiologists are perioperative physicians ("peri-" meaning "all-around") who provide medical care to patients before, during, and after their surgical procedure."

Dr Nick - Nah, GP is about the bottom of my list of stuff I want to do. Maybe slightly higher than Obs&Gynae and psychiatry, haha. Hospital medicine for the win.

I put it in quotations not to say that you didn't understand it or anything, just to show that I had read the article and was purely continuing to use that phrase for continuity... didn't think I'd need to explain that to someone who wants to be a doctor

For the sake of not turning this into even more of a childish affair, and hoping that the thread goes back on course:

[Tomm]

I don't understand, you were the one who first said the sleep thing, and you didn't put it in quote. Regardez:

You're telling me that there are people who literally just spend all day putting people into a sleep yes?

Anyway, since I know you want to apologise (but can't bring yourself to back down), I'll just imagine that you have. Apology accepted.

Fair enough, it's all about the brain surgery man, get in on the action.

I spent some time in neurosurgery and it's not all that exciting really. The brain is too complex for anyone to really understand, so all they can do is basically chop out any bits that are cancer and try and leave as much of the rest as possible. Whereas there are other things that we do understand pretty well (the heart is a pretty good example), and in my mind those specialties are more interesting because you're understanding what you're doing. Different strokes* for different folks I guess.

* intentional neurology pun alert!

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

You mean to say that medicine isn't nearly as fun as it looks on the television?

CASUALTY YOU LYING WHORE.

[Tomm]

No, it IS fun, but it's not necessarily the things you would think would be fun. For example I still really enjoy taking people's blood - even though I've done it loads, it's quite satisfying. On the other hand I did a surgical procedure by myself (under supervision of course) which didn't really float my boat.

[Matt Vandart]

Bollocks

In what way?

Matt