forteh Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 After getting pissed off with having to constantly oil the seals on my maggie slaves I decided to look at alternatives to a water bleed (specifically one that contained oil to provide the lubrication).I found some silicone shock oil from my RC car and tried it, too thick the slaves took too long to return (possibly the feed hole in the RB lever is slightly smaller than the stock maggie) so that was a no goer After consulting my dad (being the retired mad boffin/inventor/general all round clever bloke that he is) he suggested a simple emulsion of oil and water. So this is what I did....Mix approximately: -5 parts warm water4 parts screen wash1 part normal cycle oilA small drop of washing up liquidStir it all together in a tub and bleed the brakes as per normal; I syringe bled as I couldnt be arsed to take the brake off or mix up enough emulsion to bath bleed The lever feel is exactly the same as water, lovely and light with a very quick return speed and it solved the sticking piston seals I was suffering with (which I hadnt bothered to sort out). Went for a ride and the slaves are returning as theyre meant to, the brake works perfectly and all being well everything should stay lubricated now.Its probably been done by someone before but I dont recall and the search didnt throw up anything, sorry if it has been covered before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Chinnery Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 f**king hell I love you. Like you say with the oiling of the slaves and for me the master piston.Whats the screenwash for may I ask. Cheers altogether ill deffo go try this now. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Screenwash is just antifreeze, not that you really need it now but just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Chinnery Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Screenwash is just antifreeze, not that you really need it now but just in case Ok then Tell your Dad I will marry him for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Ok then Tell your Dad I will marry him for this Too late, my mum beat you by almost 40 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 LolMy brake used to be bled with water and oil, it kept seizing. Don't think it was related though. This was an old-style lever.Interesting concoction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Chinnery Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Too late, my mum beat you by almost 40 years Bugger, Tell him to meet me at waterloo station at 8.00. Make sure no-ones following him :kiss: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 come back and tell us how its doing in 10 weeks then ill decide if your a noobie or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Doesn't oil float on top of water? So won't it just all seperate and the oil move up to the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) LolMy brake used to be bled with water and oil, it kept seizing. Don't think it was related though. This was an old-style lever.Interesting concoction!Without the emulsifier (washing up liquid) the oil and water would seperate and the oil rise to the top of the system (master cylinder) leaving the slaves with plain water to let them sieze up as per a normal water bleed. As to how long the oil/water will stay emulsified Im not too sure, hopefully the surfactants in the washing up liquid will do their job edit:@ben: You may be right, fwiw I used persil aloe vera washing up liquid (good for me hands ) only time will see if it stays in emulsion.@muel: An emulsion is a mixture of 2 unblendable liquids, in this case oil and water Edited February 16, 2009 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVWOCI WVS Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Doesn't oil float on top of water? So won't it just all seperate and the oil move up to the top?The wasing up liquid in the water breaks the oil down and causes it to emulsify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Ooohh. Let us know how it goes in a couple of months yeh? I'm using Silkoline ProCool a the moment, it's pretty light at the lever but not as light as water, and it seems to lube the seals well enough. It's also freeze-proof to -32, which is useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Ooohh. Let us know how it goes in a couple of months yeh? I'm using Silkoline ProCool a the moment, it's pretty light at the lever but not as light as water, and it seems to lube the seals well enough. It's also freeze-proof to -32, which is useful. Of course, if it remains in emulsion then its all good, if it starts to get sticky slaves again then a rethink is in order Never used procool (my supermoto is air cooled ) but it may work, dont know the lubrication properties of propylene glycol though; a quick scan of wikipedia gave these application results: -Propylene glycol is used: * As a moisturizer in medicines, cosmetics, food, toothpaste, mouth wash, and tobacco products * In electronic cigarettes to deliver vaporized nicotine * As a medical and sexual lubricant (A.K.A. "personal lubricant") * As an emulsification agent in Angostura and orange bitters * As a solvent for food colors and flavorings * As a humectant food additive, labeled as E number E1520 * As a cooling agent for beer and wine glycol jacketed fermentation tanks * As a carrier in fragrance oils * As a less-toxic antifreeze * As a solvent used in mixing photographic chemicals, such as film developers * In smoke machines to make artificial smoke for use in firefighters' training and theatrical productions * In hand sanitizers, antibacterial lotions, and saline solutions * In cryonics * As a working fluid in hydraulic presses * As a coolant in liquid cooling systems * To regulate humidity in a cigar humidor * As the killing and preserving agent in pitfall traps, usually used to capture ground beetles * To treat livestock ketosis * As the main ingredient in deodorant sticks. * To de-ice aircraft.[4] * UV Blacklite Tattoo Ink :D :DShould be ok I reckon, perhaps you could mix it 50:50 with more distilled water (procool is 50% distilled already) to give a lighter feel Edited February 16, 2009 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I've never used distilled water, I just use tap water. I was just going to run plain water for the summer, but I'll probably just leave it, it's light enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Chinnery Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 So hows it going?Like smooth? Has the oil traveled to the mast or is the washingup liquid doing its job? x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ive always run water bleeds and never have to oil the pistons. Am i just lucky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) So hows it going?Like smooth? Has the oil traveled to the mast or is the washingup liquid doing its job? xNot had a chance to ride, pulled the muscles in my back on sunday and now got a bit of a cold It will likely be months before I know if its come out of solution.Ive always run water bleeds and never have to oil the pistons. Am i just lucky?Chances are you have some oil left in the system somewhere, my 1st water bleed lasted for ages before getting sticky pistons. Subsequently after being re-bled with water I developed sticky pistons within a couple of months and the only way to rectify it (without bleeding with oil) was to manually oil the pistons. The emulsion bleed relubricated the pistons after a couple of strokes and they are now moving smoothly as intended.Bear in mind my maggie slaves are over 10 years old so the seals are possibly more prone to sticking Edited February 17, 2009 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 My rear brake hasnt been bled for 3 years now and its showing no signs of sticking, get in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 My rear brake hasnt been bled for 3 years now and its showing no signs of sticking, get in!What I was saying though was that in the 1st water bleed some oil remains will probably be in the system, if you were to re-bleed the brake (especially if you blow it through to clean it out) with water then I suspect it would be more likely to develop sticky pistons. If the brake isnt leaking then there is no need to bleed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Im just going to ride it till it explodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan6061 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I've never really had a problem with water bleeds, other than having to service my very old Magura slaves ages ago...I might experiment with mine soon, I'm getting bored of not having to work on my bike now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Chinnery Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I've never really had a problem with water bleeds, other than having to service my very old Magura slaves ages ago...I might experiment with mine soon, I'm getting bored of not having to work on my bike now!Swap my t-pro. Always needs f**king work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 please tell me if im wrong but normal car antifreeze also lubricates, so surely just water/antifreeze mix would do the same job.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstein Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Just bleed it with cooking oil, then you have no need for these fancy creations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 seems mighty darn complicated think ill stick with water, although do post up if it is completely successful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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