Post A Picture Of Your Guitar

[Revolver]

I can't read sheet music for guitar, and know little theory for it.

I still enjoy playing it, and especially, coming up with my own stuff.

[Hendrix]

Here's a new debate... What gives anyone the right to say someone who has made a shit load of recognisable, revered music is not talented?

I can read music, but I never do - I use tabs if I'm learning something because I don't need the dots to tell me what the notes sound like. It's like choosing a horse and cart over an internal combustion engine propelled vehicle.

It gives anyone the right. The Arctic Monkey's guitarist doesn't know theoretical stuff at all, what he does know is when and where to play power chords. Now, he's made (how ever much) money off of doing this, so I'd class him as lucky to not have to learn as much as some people have had to. He won't ever make any money as a professional musician (as in session/session touring/session studio) unless he learns a load more chords, learns to read etc. Now, he could very well be sitting on a money hill, and know he never has to work again, in which case, well done to him for being in a band that people liked.

Maybe it's more a case of saying, there's talent, then there's professional talent which is in leagues above normal talent.

By the way man, vitalize your chart & score reading, there are LOADS of studio gigs in London at the moment. You only need one to get you on the road to success.

[Tom_]

Here's a new debate... What gives anyone the right to say someone who has made a shit load of recognisable, revered music is not talented? Is musical talent just down to technical ability? NO. Alex Turner appealed to a generation (and more) at a time when they wanted to hear the sort of music he has always been creating. To get a song into peoples heads, get it remembered and make money from it takes talent.

I can read music, but I never do - I use tabs if I'm learning something because I don't need the dots to tell me what the notes sound like. It's like choosing a horse and cart over an internal combustion engine propelled vehicle.

I have masses of respect for him, and I love his music, but when it comes down to it its seriously simple chord structures, if your analysing it from a purley musical examinatory (f**k knows if thats a real word) way ultimatly he isnt talented. I dont dis-respect him, and I think hes done amazingly well for himself.

Im open to both views, Im just attempting to get some kind of a debate going, there seems to have been a huge lack of debating recently, and I thought this was a good topic that came up between me and a friend on msn, I can see both sides, Im simply backing one. As with all "rules" there are exceptions. Notice though, excluding the arctic monkeys, there are many other bands that are similar, using simple chord patterns etc. and they are quite frankly shit, or arctic monkeys knock offs. Surley some degree of musical knowledge would allow them to alter the way they play, and the chords etc they use to create a different sound?

[adamtrials]

I was fairly sure about the perfect pitch thing, til you said it and I googled it. I think I'll have to take a shot at it, as it's seems a pretty useful thing to have under your belt.

I'm pretty sure most people won't be able to learn it, and the people I know, it took them about a years worth of GCSE music lessons trying to learn it... I used it for perhaps a week or two. Can't remember what the site was, it was significantly better than any others though.

I don't know who any of the people you mentioned are. I'm sure modes are useful, but not essential to use in a formalised way. My mentor doesn't believe in teaching jazz, or jazz theory, and he's one of the most successful jazz pianists/ innovators around.

[JD™]

Some people don't want to be session musicians. As far as I'm concerned (and most other people who get into playing a musical instrument of any variety) creativity and the portrayal of emotion far outweighs the ability to be able to play whatever you are asked to. Would you like to be the butler for a nobel price winner, or a nobel prize winner?

I would rather never play guitar again than play something someone else has written without any creative input of my own. My album clearly isn't very good (otherwise people would have bought it!) but it's something I am very very proud of and would never trade for more technical ability.

[Hendrix]

My mentor doesn't believe in teaching jazz, or jazz theory, and he's one of the most successful jazz pianists/ innovators around.

A name would be helpful.

Maybe not teaching Jazz theory, but you surely must have been taught basic theory? Resolutions, modes etc?

Some people don't want to be session musicians. As far as I'm concerned (and most other people who get into playing a musical instrument of any variety) creativity and the portrayal of emotion far outweighs the ability to be able to play whatever you are asked to. Would you like to be the butler for a nobel price winner, or a nobel prize winner?

I would rather never play guitar again than play something someone else has written without any creative input of my own. My album clearly isn't very good (otherwise people would have bought it!) but it's something I am very very proud of and would never trade for more technical ability.

Why? You'd rather work at an insurance company and earn how ever much, than for instance, be second guitarist to Eric Clapton, and earn £50k a month?

[JD™]

Why? You'd rather work at an insurance company and earn how ever much, than for instance, be second guitarist to Eric Clapton, and earn £50k a month?

Yes. It's not about the money, or the crowds, or the adoration of music college geeks. It's about getting a message across. Music is communication and I don't want to be someone else's puppet. Props to you if that's what you want to do, but I would much rather play acoustic versions of my own tunes to 2 people than someone else's stuff to 20,000. Its just a pride in being what I personally think a "musician" is.

[Hendrix]

Yes. It's not about the money, or the crowds, or the adoration of music college geeks. It's about getting a message across. Music is communication and I don't want to be someone else's puppet. Props to you if that's what you want to do, but I would much rather play acoustic versions of my own tunes to 2 people than someone else's stuff to 20,000. Its just a pride in being what I personally think a "musician" is.

Ahh, that's fair enough man. You're going down the Originals route, which at the moment is something that's taking off more than before, thanks to online distribution etc etc.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Hendrix

[Revolver]

He's got a point.

It's all about what YOU bring to the music.

I don't play many other people's music. I find it difficult to. Partly because I'm not very good, and partly because I believe it's easier to play your own stuff, because you thought of it, it comes naturally to you. Playing like someone else, their music, you need to absorb their style.

Something like that, I know it's a big excuse

[hdmackay]

Yes. It's not about the money, or the crowds, or the adoration of music college geeks. It's about getting a message across. Music is communication and I don't want to be someone else's puppet. Props to you if that's what you want to do, but I would much rather play acoustic versions of my own tunes to 2 people than someone else's stuff to 20,000. Its just a pride in being what I personally think a "musician" is.

Perfectly said.

I couldn't agree more!

[Tom_]

Yes. It's not about the money, or the crowds, or the adoration of music college geeks. It's about getting a message across. Music is communication and I don't want to be someone else's puppet. Props to you if that's what you want to do, but I would much rather play acoustic versions of my own tunes to 2 people than someone else's stuff to 20,000. Its just a pride in being what I personally think a "musician" is.

But surley if you compose your own stuff and enjoy it etc. and it isnt sucsesfull and earns you nothing and then at the same time, tour with someone massive and play there stuff along side them, your earning large sums of money doing somthing that ultimatly you find relativly easy/enjoyable, yet you can still compose your own thing, and try to get it recognised, hell you might even get better, and get better known by being the backing for these people?

[Hendrix]

Just, as I said, remember the 'god like' session musicians like James Jamerson. He brought himself to the music he did (which was usually motown), and people hired him because of it. He could also rinse Giant Steps at 50bpm higher than anyway else (so I've been told?)

[JD™]

He's got a point.

It's all about what YOU bring to the music.

I don't play many other people's music. I find it difficult to. Partly because I'm not very good, and partly because I believe it's easier to play your own stuff, because you thought of it, it comes naturally to you. Playing like someone else, their music, you need to absorb their style.

Something like that, I know it's a big excuse

I think there's a lot to be said for playing other peoples stuff for learning and progression and also, in some ways, to add parts of other peoples styles to your own. But that's a whole world away from actually playing something FOR someone because they don't have the ability or whatever.

I have nothing against what people like Hendrix (feels weird using that name in this context...) want to do, I just don't think it fits with my personal views on what makes a musician. But that's debate eh?

[hdmackay]

But surley if you compose your own stuff and enjoy it etc. and it isnt sucsesfull and earns you nothing and then at the same time, tour with someone massive and play there stuff along side them, your earning large sums of money doing somthing that ultimatly you find relativly easy/enjoyable, yet you can still compose your own thing, and try to get it recognised, hell you might even get better, and get better known by being the backing for these people?

Yeah, you've got a point there man.

That would be absolutely ideal!

And if you then got recognised... Ditch your other band!

Haha

[adamtrials]

A name would be helpful.

Maybe not teaching Jazz theory, but you surely must have been taught basic theory? Resolutions, modes etc?

I know nothing about modes or resoloutions. It's allll about the virtuoso post bop avant garde jazz...

Mark Latimer, check him out on itunes or his website or wikipedia or something...

[TheCircus]

Well basically what it boils down to is you either view music as;

1) A set of rules that is learnt

2) An innate concept that you are born with

I personally think that understanding of music is an innate concept that because of THIS. So what it's basically saying is music theory is an interpretation of sounds that is a natural occurrence so really anybody with the physical ability to pick up and play an instrument is able to correctly play along to anything without ever even being introduced to the concept of musical theory given enough time to learn.

I mean, while saying that music theory makes you better as a musician is correct, it's just a set of rules which will let you gain understanding of music at an instrumental level at a faster rate than you would naturally learn it. So given a certain mental aptitude/natural musical ability and time I think a person could easily learn to be crazy f**king good at playing any instrument without ever looking at a piece of sheet music or spending hours learning retarded pentatonics for a chord noone on earth will ever play.

[Tom_]

Circus in serious posting shocker...

You seem fairly clued up on it all, Im assuming you play an instrument? And yes, given time Im sure you can become very good at 1 instrument with very little theoritical knowledge, but what if say after playing guitar, you wanted to play piano. You would have to start from a much lower level of knowledge than if you had a good knowledge of music, even simply knowing about bass and treble clefts and being able to read simple music, coupled with knowing middle C etc. and within a day or so I think you could have some basic tunes pretty dialled on a piano, simply with your basic musical knowledge that you gained when playing guitar. As aposed to someone who just learnt from tab/by ear. Bearing in mind in the case of piano most music IS, well, musically written and portrayed via dots..

[Hendrix]

Well basically what it boils down to is you have to view music as;

1) A set of rules that is learnt

2) An innate concept that you are born with

[TheCircus]

PROTIP: ONE IS MORE RIGHT THAN THE OTHER.

[Hendrix]

PROTIP: ONE IS MORE RIGHT THAN THE OTHER.

WHICH ONE?!

[JD™]

WHICH ONE?!

The other one.

[Hendrix]

The other one.

The other other one?

[Tom_]

The right one.

[Hendrix]

The right one.

[Tom_]