Homosexuality

[Tomm]

Who else thinks it bloody stupid it against the law to say what homosexual's do is wrong when it's biologically clear it is. Most striaght men hate them or just laugh at them... Anyway fancy a bum?

That's right. You have proven how manly you are by saying that. Now GTFO of this thread, eh?

[1a2bcio8]

Ooooh! that makes me feel uneasy! I have a few friends that seem to cherry pic from each religion/theology what ever aspects suit them the most, tarrod cards from here, dream catchers from there, prayer beads from somewhere else. Something about the concept bothers me (not in a personal way though ). It feels a little too close to just making up whatever you to beleive in and, to me, that smacks a little too much of believing because you want to believe rather than because it is what you believe.

Anyway, I'm expressing my own missgivings, they are by no means justified!

Edit - I'm off to the climbing wall, so I'll catch up with this thread later.

Again it depends on how you think of a religion. Ultimately, I think all religion is aspiring to the same thing - mystical realisation. Now, each religion has its own methods of acheiving such a thing. Of a religion, some parts may help you (on the subjective level) and others may not. At the same time, this could be true of a different religion. Thus, it makes sense (to me at least) to be pragmatic and choose the parts which get you where you want. Of course, this makes the most sense if you've reasoned (or believe) what I have stated about religions sharing the same goal. I think this can be true of the other, relative aspects of religion. We're all individuals who have grown up in a peculiar way and are disposed to different things (ways of thinking, feeling, etc.). Consequently, we're never going to find a 'one size fits all' religion.

Also, I think it's always worth considering that not all religion is belief and that's because not all religion is about a deity. Zen Buddhism, the religion that I appreciate the most, has no gods. It is that religion which best attempts to emphasise the mystical part and discard with the intellectualism of the other parts of religion (which, in a certain sense, are seen as 'lower' practices of being). Other forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, Occultism in the West, have gods only as metaphors for what Carl Jung called psychological "archetypes" of the collective unconscious. These religions seem to best recognise themselves as a mythology. I'm getting away from my point but what is essential to these religions is that you are able to experience what they talk of. Thus, belief is not required, only practice until the time you have the expreince which you are attemping. No doubt people do believe in things for convenience but that becomes quite irrelavent when the belief is essentially testable.

[MadManMike]

Who else thinks it bloody stupid it against the law to say what homosexual's do is wrong when it's biologically clear it is. Most striaght men hate them or just laugh at them... Anyway fancy a bum?

I never thought I'd see you make a pointless post! /sarcasm

I'll contribute to this later, once my head is straight - work has fried my brain today.

[Elliot]

...

Hmm. I think that my views of religion are probably too western traditional in that I view religion indelibly linked with death and what comes after. There is pretty much either a yes or a no to that question, and such a truth to the answer which precludes choice. Anyway, I think all this off topic chatting does serve to illustrate just how much Christianity would need to change to adapt.

> I'm late for climbing now!

[Boswell]

If you think about the idea that everything came from nothing is a lot more far fetched than believing in some sort of higher force, isnt it?

[manuel]

and finally, it's a story

best selling novel ?

I just think its completely out of touch with what the majority of people think in modern society. The guy is like 1000000 years old, and out of touch. The pope can never say I love the gays - they are going to heaven, but he can just say nothing - Not actively put out some hate onto them. Surely Christianity is all about love and forgiveness

[Fish-Finger-er]

I was interested what younger members of society thought about the matters in that article, whether they believe in god and the bible or not.

I dont really believe in god, and i believe in the bible, as it exists(theres a couple in the house somewhere), but to me its no more than a book of stories.

I dont really have a negative view on religion, although maybe today, its out of place, it cant really be argued against, that the 10 commandments would be a reasonable set of rules to live your life by. So many years ago, i could perhaps of seen them to be formed, as almost like rudimentary laws(also note how they could be rather powerful, whereas now, ill break the law, because i dont think ill get caught and punished for it, back then, an easily swayed population who believed in god being all-seeing,maybe wouldnt risk stealing a car stereo, because they thought theyd 100% be caught- bearing in mind no ones ever got away with breaking the 10 commandments and been able to say they havent gone to hell.)

Also i dont really see the pope has done himself/the religion much harm here, sure a bunch of none believers now have an issue with him, but we didnt believe anyway, what does it matter. those people that attend the catholic church, are unlikely to stop going on the grounds that the person closest to god, has said something they disagree with, unless theyd got homosexual family members, and even then if they where already sticking with the catholic church,after knowing theyre stance on homosexuality, its unlikely there going to be swayed now). The number of homosexual catholics would be very small i would say. but theres probably a high amount of people(especially in the USA, but also here, who are homophobic, and religious, and cheered his views on it)

[Balman]

Could be worse Watch that!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b007c...ily_in_America/

I personally like it when they call princess diana a "fag enabler".....

That video was truely ammazing i acctully watched it to the end wow is all i can say just WOW haha

[JT!]

I've only skimmed though the topic but Dr Nick seems to have got it spot on if you ask me. The bible is just a story book, religion is pretty much 98% bollocks and no real good has come of it. People follow the words in the bible blindly and it's f**king stupid and has got to the point now where it's not worth debating.

[Tomm]

If you think about the idea that everything came from nothing is a lot more far fetched than believing in some sort of higher force, isnt it?

Faith does not require religion - I.e. You can believe in a higher power without following a religion. That's not really what this thread is about, though.

[Max Quinn]

Who else thinks it bloody stupid it against the law to say what homosexual's do is wrong when it's biologically clear it is. Most striaght men hate them or just laugh at them... Anyway fancy a bum?

But is biologically the same as morally?

I haven't read the whole thread cos i'm shattered.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Max Quinn

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

best selling novel ?

It's a f**king good read, well worth the effort.

Who else thinks it bloody stupid it against the law to say what homosexual's do is wrong when it's biologically clear it is. Most striaght men hate them or just laugh at them... Anyway fancy a bum?

any hole is a goal right?

[Sneakers O'Toole]

I was never really around gay people until i went to university that much. My Aunty is gay and my mams hairdresser is but i never had contact with overtly gay people until a few years ago. Now i'm on a course that is full of girls and gay lads, i think there are 7 straight lads on it. Its pretty frustrating with all the bitching they do i must say, and group work can be a bit tedious when all the chat is about the social calender and telly but most of them are good lads.

One of my mates from home thinks that being gay is a mental 'problem' in that its not what we are programmed to do and that idea really pisses me off. As for religion and homosexuality...i'm sure there was plenty going on back in the day. Wasn't it the greeks that had boys for fun and women for making kiddies?

[Krisboats]

any hole is a goal right?

MMMMmmmm, nostrils

[Spider Lad]

bearing in mind no ones ever got away with breaking the 10 commandments and been able to say they havent gone to hell.)

Noone's obeyed them and been able to prove they have gone to heaven either.

The ten commandments are mostly a basic humanistic moral code which hold much in common most other religions. They shouldn't be seen as something that separates Christianity from all the others, since Christianity is by and large compiled from borrowed parts of other belief systems. Societies were living and adhering to similar moral codes long before the ten commandments became part of Christian doctrine. The commandments are beside the point here, since I don't remember there being a "Thou shalt not love Judy Garland..."

unless that comes under false idols...

[anzo]

Its just a matter of opinion from 'outsiders' on the subject, and because they're 'outsiders' it has nothing to do with them at all.

It's like how straight people have an issue with gay marriage...why? It doesn't directly affect them in everyday life. I don't lay awake at night worrying that tomorrow two males will be getting married to each other. Therefore, I don't really have any 'valid' opinion on this becuase 1. I'm not gay, and 2. I'm not religious. If it doesn't affect me, what right to I have to change any of it?

Another way to thing of this is Scientology. For everyone within it, its a religion, for everyone outside of it, its a cult - that rings alarm bells for me and I do think of Scientology as a religion. The only people that call it a cult are the ones two are trying to put it down or critise it - and that is the only ammo they have in the argument.

[tris]

I don't like gays. Don't think it's right. Un-natural.

However i don't think queers have much choice (ie. I don't think they want to be gay, they can't help it) I think it's just their kinda instinct?? At the end of the day why would you want to be gay, it just seperates you from everyone else and makes people think your wierd or not normal.

However i think i small % of gays are gay for the sake of it, maybe attention seeking???

[MadManMike]

Thanks for your input Adolf, what's your view on Jewish people?

makes narrow minded c*nts think your wierd or not normal.

Yep, true.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

I don't like gays. Don't think it's right. Un-natural.

However i don't think queers have much choice (ie. I don't think they want to be gay, they can't help it) I think it's just their kinda instinct?? At the end of the day why would you want to be gay, it just seperates you from everyone else and makes people think your wierd or not normal.

However i think i small % of gays are gay for the sake of it, maybe attention seeking???

Twenty quid on closet.

[1a2bcio8]

Twenty quid on closet.

Make that thirty on cuboard under the stairs.

[beigemaster]

Its just a matter of opinion from 'outsiders' on the subject, and because they're 'outsiders' it has nothing to do with them at all.

It's like how straight people have an issue with gay marriage...why? It doesn't directly affect them in everyday life. I don't lay awake at night worrying that tomorrow two males will be getting married to each other. Therefore, I don't really have any 'valid' opinion on this becuase 1. I'm not gay, and 2. I'm not religious. If it doesn't affect me, what right to I have to change any of it?

Maybe it would affect you if you were married. If your a married heterosexual couple with a certain value system on what marriage really is then there is a possibility that the concept of a gay couple being able to have the same right,

that may have an affect on you, you may think it de values your own ideas on marriage.

Thanks for your input Adolf, what's your view on Jewish people?

Although amusing, your just committing a fallacy ad hominem in that your just attacking the person rather than addressing the person's argument. All "it's un natural" arguments on this subject are pretty flawed. Un natural compared to what exactly? If you want to look at our most “natural" relatives (chimps) then should we run around killing and devouring our nearest neighbours? Nature is irrational with no moral values and so to look to it for guidance on rational and moral issues is just pointless.