Crazyman Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) Hi!Now i'm choose new mod-frame. My height is 182cm. I like to ride Side-Gap-Pedal up-style (urban only). What you can suggest me?I'm renamed topic. I would like to buy echo lite frame. What's your opinion about this frame? What is snail cams is better to use on this frame(monty,triltech etc..) Edited November 4, 2008 by Crazyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 Monty 221PR? Great all round. And i'm about the same height as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted November 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) Monty 221pr is very short...I'm not sure that it's comfortable for pedal up and gap...but bunny hops must be doing well. Unfortunately it's very difficult to get monty in my city..but real Thanks for advice!Now i'm renamed topic. "I would like to buy echo lite frame. What's your opinion about this frame? What is snail cams is better to use on this frame(monty,triltech etc..)"-quote from mine first post Edited November 4, 2008 by Crazyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Echo Lite is a nice frame. I bought one when i got back into trials and i think it did me well. I think i had the 06 model, i honestly can't remember. It was about 1010mm in wheelbase.I find frames that are shorter pedal up better, just because i can push the bike up more. But a longer back end makes me gap further.I'd definitely get the Echo Lite in the short model though. But that's me! As for snail cams, they're pretty much all the same. Only slight differences in them. To be honest i can't think of much to say about the Lite. It has a disc and HS33 model, it's cheap, relatively strong/ stiff and very low profile. Have you looked at the Bionic frames? I have a B3, rides nice, but i think the Monty may ride better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 The 08 rim-brake Lites might ride fine; but their design is horrid. -6061 aluminium (fine, it's OK.. but Ultra 6 or 7005 are simply better?) very very soft metal, and just a very bog standard material. Nowadays the choice material for low-end frames.-enormously large dropouts (which is the common crackpoint for the 08 rim-brake Lites in particular) {NB: 08 Disc Lites and 06 and 07 rim brake Lites don't really suffer from this as their dropouts are a different design)-Unnecessarily low-slung design.. makes it look so squashed and smaller seattubes generally mean flexier overall chassis.I would really advise going for the 07/08 Echo Team, those are strong and very beefy. They are actually somewhat elegant in their design, what with the in-built booster, Ultra 6 tubing, and more dent-resistant downtube. Only a few grams more than a 'Lite', but so much better in other aspects.08 Lite discs are fine frames too.Monty frames are a con. No really, Monty heads should stop being so proud of 'traditional gear'... seriously, Monty's frames are very very poor in aesthetics, and design to a degree. It's all very backwards. The dropouts are always the cheapest everywhere and the higher end frames cost nearly 1000 pounds (yes just a frame!).. just look at the 221/231 Kamel, it's about 900 pounds for the frame and the dropouts are really pretty disgraceful... it's just a stamped sheet plate of metal.. not to mention it IS cheap, horrid, and the chainstays/seatstays on the 221PRs and maybe the Kamels, have open-ended tubing. Not the end of the world.. but not ideal.. Heck, Onza and Deng's budget frames are burlier and 5x cheaper than Kamels and feature way better dropouts and overall mechanical design. Montys don't even have solid chainstay yoke pieces... it's become a modern standard these days and for good reason! Improved stiffness and MUCH higher resistance to bashing and crushing from failed taps and sidehops. Why can't Monty just catch on? If they weren't the 'original' biketrials brand, and were an altogether new brand, would YOU really want to buy their Kamel FRAME ONLY for 900 pounds? I could think of much better things to spend my money on (Deng/other frame, food, party, travel, and more to boot...). Monty rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Monty frames are a con. No really, Monty heads should stop being so proud of 'traditional gear'... seriously, Monty's frames are very very poor in aesthetics, and design to a degree. It's all very backwards. The dropouts are always the cheapest everywhere and the higher end frames cost nearly 1000 pounds (yes just a frame!).. just look at the 221/231 Kamel, it's about 900 pounds for the frame and the dropouts are really pretty disgraceful... it's just a stamped sheet plate of metal.. not to mention it IS cheap, horrid, and the chainstays/seatstays on the 221PRs and maybe the Kamels, have open-ended tubing. Not the end of the world.. but not ideal.. Heck, Onza and Deng's budget frames are burlier and 5x cheaper than Kamels and feature way better dropouts and overall mechanical design. Montys don't even have solid chainstay yoke pieces... it's become a modern standard these days and for good reason! Improved stiffness and MUCH higher resistance to bashing and crushing from failed taps and sidehops. Why can't Monty just catch on? If they weren't the 'original' biketrials brand, and were an altogether new brand, would YOU really want to buy their Kamel FRAME ONLY for 900 pounds? I could think of much better things to spend my money on (Deng/other frame, food, party, travel, and more to boot...). Monty rant over You have a valid point. But isn't it all over priced? Should Koxx lovers accept that the product they choose isn't any better quality than the Echo range. But as for looks, what are you talking about?! I think the 221PR looks amazing. The design of it i think works (saf), and i know for a fact a larger triangle is stronger. It has disk mounts and i can sit down without rolling onto the tyre. The stickers are under the lacquer and feel nice and smooth. They have a decent colour scheme always going on with their bikes in general. This argument always comes up, but i think the main point being is that the R&D just boosts the price a bit. I said a bit! Plus the Kamel was never designed to be a 'burley' machine. I'll take the Kamel over the food too.Release a frame with the 221PR geo, disc mount and same coolness then i'll buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam F Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 You have a valid point. But isn't it all over priced? Should Koxx lovers accept that the product they choose isn't any better quality than the Echo range. But as for looks, what are you talking about?! I think the 221PR looks amazing. The design of it i think works (saf), and i know for a fact a larger triangle is stronger. It has disk mounts and i can sit down without rolling onto the tyre. The stickers are under the lacquer and feel nice and smooth. They have a decent colour scheme always going on with their bikes in general. This argument always comes up, but i think the main point being is that the R&D just boosts the price a bit. I said a bit! Plus the Kamel was never designed to be a 'burley' machine. I'll take the Kamel over the food too.Release a frame with the 221PR geo, disc mount and same coolness then i'll buy it.So what if it has all THIS? What's all this gonna do to stop it from cracking/snapping etc etc.Release a frame with the 221PR geo, disc mount and same coolness then i'll buy it.Why not just buy a 221pr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Yes, crucial thing I forgot to mention. Montys break far too easily. Yes I know they are 'comp' frames, but that doesn't mean purposefully designing them to break... heck any fool can imitate the geometry, and to be honest Kamels aren't that much lighter than a decent Deng frame. People buy Monty for the name, and because Cesar, Ot Pi, and Comas all get big time big 'dolla' glory in the world competitions. .. it's all propaganda, and it's all a bit superficial. Not to mention, the quality, and warranty is pretty wack... Heck, Koxx are similar but at least their frames are actually very neat and 'cutting edge'. I do say too that the frames are probably stronger than Monty too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted November 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Sponge, eskimo thanks for advices!Have you looked at the Bionic frames? I have a B3, rides nice,Yes i looked on b3 frames. It has good design but it also short frame. Now i'm ride on short mod and i would like to try something more longer. Maybe long frame will be more comfortable for my height than more shorter. Have you ever ride on long frame? You said that my heigh is about your height and i'm interesting what difference you noticed if you try to ride on long frame.And i'm also looked neon Bow frame...what your think about it? Geo:1015/362/+65/71,5° Weight-1.715g.Pics: Edited November 6, 2008 by Crazyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 So what if it has all THIS? What's all this gonna do to stop it from cracking/snapping etc etc.Why not just buy a 221pr?I have a 221pr I think you missed my point. I bought this Monty model because of the overall geo/ shape/ style etc. I just meant if Echo/ Bionic etc had a frame very similar to the 221pr i would buy that instead.Yes, crucial thing I forgot to mention. Montys break far too easily. Yes I know they are 'comp' frames, but that doesn't mean purposefully designing them to break... heck any fool can imitate the geometry, and to be honest Kamels aren't that much lighter than a decent Deng frame. People buy Monty for the name, and because Cesar, Ot Pi, and Comas all get big time big 'dolla' glory in the world competitions. .. it's all propaganda, and it's all a bit superficial. Not to mention, the quality, and warranty is pretty wack... Heck, Koxx are similar but at least their frames are actually very neat and 'cutting edge'. I do say too that the frames are probably stronger than Monty too.That's why i'm back on Monty. As no one has released anything as cool or with the same geo. I think something like the Czar 07/ Echo Lite Disc (both short) are pretty crappy looking. I rode an Echo Lite 06 when i got back into trials, it was good, but it wasn't that good. Besides it didn't even look cool looking back. I think this may be to with all frames being so low so they don't look cool to me anymore. Plus i'm not a fan of bmx frames being low either. I don't disagree Monty has downfalls with their parts/ frames. Sponge, eskimo thanks for advices!Yes i looked on b3 frames. It has good design but it also short frame. Now i'm ride on short mod and i would like to try something more longer. Maybe long frame will be more comfortable for my height than more shorter. Have you ever ride on long frame? You said that my heigh is about your height and i'm interesting what difference you noticed if you try to ride on long frame.And i'm also looked neon Bow frame...what your think about it? Geo:1015/362/+65/71,5° Weight-1.715g.Pics:The B3 is 1015/ 358/ 55/ 72 by the way. Well my is anyway. Rode quite nice. But still nothing amazing. Just a general "yeah it rides nice". The backend felt quite long to me. But very roomy. And i felt it was too long for me.The new Neons seems alright. Not sure on the colours. The slacker headangle is cool as it might feel a bit shorter up front. I suppose your need quite a big stem on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted November 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I have a 221pr I think you missed my point. I bought this Monty model because of the overall geo/ shape/ style etc. I just meant if Echo/ Bionic etc had a frame very similar to the 221pr i would buy that instead.That's why i'm back on Monty. As no one has released anything as cool or with the same geo. I think something like the Czar 07/ Echo Lite Disc (both short) are pretty crappy looking. I rode an Echo Lite 06 when i got back into trials, it was good, but it wasn't that good. Besides it didn't even look cool looking back. I think this may be to with all frames being so low so they don't look cool to me anymore. Plus i'm not a fan of bmx frames being low either. I don't disagree Monty has downfalls with their parts/ frames. The B3 is 1015/ 358/ 55/ 72 by the way. Well my is anyway. Rode quite nice. But still nothing amazing. Just a general "yeah it rides nice". The backend felt quite long to me. But very roomy. And i felt it was too long for me.The new Neons seems alright. Not sure on the colours. The slacker headangle is cool as it might feel a bit shorter up front. I suppose your need quite a big stem on it too.Official geo B3 (with 365mm fork) is 1010/358/55/72°... Why are you think that it need a big stem on neon bow? How much big? Now i'm use trialtech sport 150*35 stem and it's great...I wouldn't like to use anything other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Official geo B3 (with 365mm fork) is 1010/358/55/72°... Why are you think that it need a big stem on neon bow? How much big? Now i'm use trialtech sport 150*35 stem and it's great...I wouldn't like to use anything other The Trialtech forged is a nice stem, i have the same one Like you say you want something longer. But if your riding a frame with a slacker/ mellower head angle then you might need a longer stem to compromise. Obviously it won't change the wheelbase, but your used to 72 degree on a short frame? So if you keep the same stem the Neon Bow won't feel much longer, and with that extra bb rise on it you could still feel cramped in. In short the Trialtech stem will feel different on the Neon Bow to what it does at the moment.You understand what i'm saying now? I am just guessing/ presuming what it would feel like, i've never ridden a mod with a slack/ mellow head angle before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 I've recently been riding a mod built up on a Lite short frame from 2007 or so. It was the nicest frame I've ridden so far and the only one I've enjoyed since switching to stock. It's very flicky to ride. Also doesn't feel much shorter than a 2004 Python. If anything, it feels more focused, much more enjoyable and easier to ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted November 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Yes of course, i'm uderstand you Thanks for good post!And you are right with geo of stem. I'm find special stem Neon Bow for bow frame: http://www.crazybike.ru/forum/download/fil...8&mode=viewGeo: 175mm/35 degrees and as trialtech it's made from 2014 aluminium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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