Yea... Another New One

[Sponge]

I don't want to start a discussion and stray off topic, but what Bionic is doing is really getting on my nerves. Ok, we've seen companies copy other designs which is inevitable but most if not all Bionic frames are rip off's - XTP, GU Le, Adamant, 221K etc. I've lost all my respect to Yao Zhi. Seriously, what a clot.

Bike looks great dude.

I think it is absolutely crucial to see this from Zhi's point of view; and for the Chinese riders. "imported" goods are damn expensive in China, similar or sometimes even more than in the UK. So that's why they always ask me to bring them back Koxx and Monty stuff... since it's so so so difficult to source in China and it's damn expensive...same case for Maguras in China... hence why I respect Deng for producing a now-decent set of hydro rim brakes for Chinese riders.. It's expensive here at 135 pounds... but in China; i bet a TR or SL Dengura is much cheaper than an imported Magura (which is shockingly hard to get a hold of in China!)

So I guess Chinese riders like the funky new designs they see on European comp brands' frames.. so Zhi created Bionic as a budget brand; and yes it copies (but wasn't ZOO! originally like that when Echo first introduced it?... e.g. the Lynx, first Pitbulls....). I don't really see copying as that bad anymore. It's not patented and they aren't breaking any laws; so it's OK. If it means people can get nice looking frames at a MUCH cheaper price and with Ultra 6 or whatever aluminium instead of the standard 7005 that Monty uses, then more power to them.

It is easier for most Chinese riders to buy their home-brand stuff like Deng and Zhi; so to give the riders a more affordable opportunity to have frames like the Kamel-copy is a blessing. Heck, Andy's one of the people that's been blessed by this! haha...

So what Zhi is doing is a good thing for his countrymen. Zhi is seen as 'the peoples' brand' in trials. It's very sorta patriotic and Zhi/Bionic's main aim is to help build up the Chinese trials scene and bring them more affordable frames with aesthetics borrowed off other frames.

Not to mention, the Kamel and most trials frames are all manufactured from raw,... in China. Not trying to sound rude or prejudiced at all... but Spain is no where near as good as China at metal-working and in both quality and value for money. Hispanic culture is more suited to their tradition/roots (kinda why Monty still has very outdated designs on their frames...)and cultural stuff like music, dance, food, living the party. So... the manufacturers technically have the right to do what they want so long as they aren't voiding any patents since these frames are all *their* creation, literally. Without it, Monty stuff would be even worse in manufacturing quality and be 10x even MORE expensive if it was all made in Spain.... same goes for Koxx and France.

Onza are kinda doing the same thing as Zhi/Bionic; well at least they have done for the past few years. .. by 'copying' popular designs and producing at a more affordable price for their countrymen (in this case, Brits). I see it as a positive thing. E.g. T-Pro for Levelboss... and Zona Zip for Python. T-Rex for Coustellier/Pitbull... T-Bird for Monty... I used to dislike this copying; but I realise now it's actually a positive thing. It will also drive the original designers to produce even further improved original products... since their designs are being bitten off. Competition tends to bring out the best ability and result.

Bit off-topic... but that point needs to be made clear! Sorry if it sounds aggressive Inur . I don't bite.

Sooo..... yes the bike looks great and clean! I like the simplicity of it and double disc is very nice to ride! Riding in the rain turns into a great day because of the discs! What are you gonna do about the freewheel though? , I did read you had some issues with it.

[that NBR dude]

You bought up some very valid points I had not thought about before. It all kind of makes sense to me now, and doesnt seem as bad as just a blatent rip off to make a quick buck. I didnt realise that importing to China cost so much, I just expected it to be comparable to any other country. I guess thats why you only ever see Deng/Zhi bikes in Chinese videos.

I've bought a Monty Kamel 72ep freewheel to replace this knackered Try-all one, along with some Monty cranks and forks to lighten her up a bit. I never thouht this would happen to me as I never care about weight, but I'm actually trying to build a light bike... Its almost there, just waiting on my new parts, and I should actually be able to get out and ride it at last.

As for colour, I don't know what will happen yet, but I dont think I will spray the frame, apart from maybe the headtube area in a Monty kind of fashion. I like more neutral colours/tones such as blacks and whites (you should see my BMX, thats pretty much all white) as it just looks more modern and clean.

[eskimo]

You might be all missing the possibly essential main point? The geos are different. I bought a B3 for the geo, not because it looked like a GU. If it looked like a T-Pro i'd still of bought it as the geo was what i wanted. (short with longer rear end). I also looked heavily into these frames and others, but in the end i bought a 221PR. Because of the geo/ rear disc.

Both my previous Bionic frames were great quality.

But yeah, nice build man. That one is nicer than the B5.

[that NBR dude]

Theres really very little difference between the Bionic B 4 and the 221 Kamel. The chainstays are a little shorter, but I think thats about it, going by the rough geo in one of the threads a while back.

Meh I don't really mind if its a copy/rip off. I love the design, and for me it feels something special (even if its not really... )

Edited October 24, 2008 by that NBR dude

[that NBR dude]

Sincere apologies to all those who liked it with white rims, but I was bored, and that's a dangerous thing when I get bored, as it usually involves spray paint of some kind. I agree that it did need some colour, so I've given it some. Going to get some nice subtle Repsol Honda stickers made up for it, to work with the orange.

[Nick Manning]

Andy, why does your bike look so damn clean, lol.

Those rims do look very nice with the silver frame.

[that NBR dude]

Andy, why does your bike look so damn clean, lol.

Because its been out twice since I've built it.

Combination of weather and not trusting the freewheel in the slightest

[Sponge]

Looks cool! Colours are nice, my Baby Pitbull's a bit blandish apart from the ever-attention seeking glow of the stickers. Maybe I should start small, with coloured rimtape.

On another note... damn, does that bike look long? for some really odd reason? super lengthy up front?

Oh and how are you finding the chain/drivetrain surviving without a bash? I'm hoping a KMC and my Tensile can take a bit of bosh, for the time being, as having a halfring set at the wrong angle is a pain!

[that NBR dude]

Nar, dont bother starting small, just go all out haha! I do see what you mean, in the pic, it does look really long. Its not though, its about 1015.

Im not bothered about my drivetrain at the moment. The freewheel is destroyed so hitting it cant make it perform any worse

I have a new Monty freewheel coming to replace the wrecked try-all, so I bought new cranks and a bashplate too (as I'm too lazy to try and get the try-all off the cranks, and I had to cut a trialtech fixed cog off as it wouldn't move), so once everything is swapped over, it will be sorted.

[Sponge]

Just curious, but Porquoi you chose a Monty freewheel over a Tensile or ENO from Aspire? Not meaning to discourage you, but just to warn you of the possibility of major disappointment, the Monty freewheels aren't all that strong. The Zhi Greeneye, Viz, and Worldcat freewheels are all the same ones but with different coloured anodizing.. and people in China choose welded ACS Claws over them; which came as a bit of a shock to me, but they say it really is that unreliable... .. If possible, could you not just send it back to wherever you bought it and get a Tensile (12 fewer EP, but much stronger, and cheaper?) or an ENO off Aspire (50 pounds incl. post and pack+tax)?

Oh why do I have to be the one that tells the kids that Santa Claus doesn't exist?

(anyone guess which film that's from? No googling!)

[Jake Beach]

I actually thought it was a kamel.

[BenLeacock™]

Looks sweet dude. Looks a bit like a ''mini muel kot''

[that NBR dude]

I got this, as it was 2nd hand and cheaper than forking out over £50 for a new one. I've heard no reviews on the Montys 72ep freewheel, so for me the proof in in the pudding. If it blows up and turns out to be an appauling piece of engineering, then I will hold my hands up and say "oops I was wrong" and then buy an Eno. I'm willing to take the risk for the amount I paid for it, incase it does turn out to be ok.

Thing is with all of these freewheels, theres so many different reviews. Ive heard bad things about tensile freewheels, yet excellent things about try-alls. I've never had any issues with Enos, yet other people do. I think a lot of it is down to how quick people are to blame a product, and not look at how they've treated it first. This Monty freewheels hardly been used, so perhaps with a little care and attention, it may turn out to be different. Until I try it, I cannot say if its good or not.

[Ryan.]

The second pic make the chain stays look MEGA long.

[that NBR dude]

The second pic make the chain stays look MEGA long.

Really?? I'd have said the other way round. The 2nd pic makes the chainstays look super short, but the front end really long. Just the decieving angle I took the photo at I think.

The chianstays are pretty short, but feel nice, and the front end is just the right length for it to feel not too crampt, yet not as long as my old GU TP. Its a really chuckable frame, which is what I wanted. The GU was like trying to manoeuvre a semi-truck down a one way road.

[*Koxx hydroxx 2 Jack *]

I don't want to start a discussion and stray off topic, but what Bionic is doing is really getting on my nerves. Ok, we've seen companies copy other designs which is inevitable but most if not all Bionic frames are rip off's - XTP, GU Le, Adamant, 221K etc. I've lost all my respect to Yao Zhi. Seriously, what a clot.

Bike looks great dude.

yes your right this screams adamant a1 to me .