Does Using A Brake Booster Improve Your Brake?

[Ross McArthur]

Does using a brake booster improve your brake or does not running one make it better?

After a discussion in another thread, I have decided to open this thread asking about boosters.

Ok I realise everyone doesnt have to be the same so there will be no right or wrong answers here. So just give me your experiences and veiws please.

Thank you.

[Muel]

I've found that they reduce the amount of bite, and in some situations can reduce the hold aswell.

If your frame is too flexy, try a lightweight booster first. My brothers T-Lite was terrible, so I put an RB booster on, this actually made the brake hold and bite better, because the frame was so flexy that if you set the bite point so the blade was an inch from your middle finger, it would flex so much that the blade would hit your finger when you were just on the back wheel. It's still quite flexy compared to some I've tried, but it's just right. I find that if a brake is too stiff I get arm pump.

Basically if your frame is stiff enough without, don't use one because it can make things worse. If you want one to protect the crossover, you can make a protecter type thing or just get a braided crossover.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Muel

[Mat Smith!]

IMO give more hold and less bite like a vee, i find brakes better without boosters.

Mat

[Sponge]

Perhaps the best reason for using a booster, is to stop your frame from cracking at the mounts due to flex. Even if your frame has an in-built booster.

[grant_hundley]

boosters make your brake hold better, and that is a FACT.

when your brake slips backwards your pads try and grip the rim but dont hold enough, so the frame flex's out more than normal. having a booster stops the frame from flexing outwards so the pads stay in place and you have more hold...

[Ross McArthur]

boosters make your brake hold better, and that is a FACT.

when your brake slips backwards your pads try and grip the rim but dont hold enough, so the frame flex's out more than normal. having a booster stops the frame from flexing outwards so the pads stay in place and you have more hold...

This is the way I see it too, but some people seem to beg to differ.

[grant_hundley]

its the reason backward mount maggie forks work better when the mounts are behind the forks the pads get pulled onto the rim, when its normal mount forks they get pushed away

[Rusevelt]

Perhaps the best reason for using a booster, is to stop your frame from cracking at the mounts due to flex. Even if your frame has an in-built booster.

A former riding mate of my kevin, cracked his Woodman frame in that area after 3 months of use for not running a booster. luckly he got the crack re-welded (dont ask me how as i always thought it was impossible to re-weld a cracked frame) and has been running a booster ever since.....so yeah bossters are frame savers for sure even if dont notice a significant improvement in braking performance.

[forteh]

My history of boosters in a nutshell

Zoo boa: flexed like a bitch without a booster so bodged one together from a carbon/graphite v-brake booster which helped although I still kicked the crossover off alot. Got an echo controll 4 bolt booster and it made it the brake so much better and I never split the crossover again.

Echo hifi: fitted the booster as a matter of course (as it had made such a difference on the boa) and the brake had no hold and very little bite, even with a fresh grind. Krisboats mentioned that an over stiff brake can cause poor performance and took it off, hey presto the brake is absolutely awesome

Triton deema: orignally fitted the booster as it flexed loads (like the boa did) and the brake was crap, took it off and it works spot on. The frame flexes alot but thats one of the properties of titanium. I am going to try a small 2 bolt booster to see how it affects the brake.

Edited September 17, 2008 by forteh

[Ross McArthur]

Sorry man my crystal ball has been on holiday.

Yea the brake thing...Still doesnt make sense to me. The way I see it is, if the frame flex's, the lever pulls further into the bar making the brake feel spongy. Thats one of the reasons why metal baking bads were designed is it not?...Brakes were feeling spongy because the plastic backings were flexing/braking.

The stiffer the brake set up the more power transfer through the lever to pistons to the pads against the rim. Well thats the way I see it anyway. Im actually sitting pushing my finger through my other finger and thumb on my other hand trying to think about how this can be right..I let my finger and thumb have 'flex' and the single finger passes through easy. I hold my finger and thumb solid/stiff with no flex and its harder for my single diget to pass through, like a rim through a brake!

Man, im not preaching anything to you, just so you know. You obviously know what your on about, im just giving my opinion.

This was my argument in the other thread.

And as for the forks comment, i agree but depends which way your wheel is turning.

[AdamR28]

boosters make your brake hold better, and that is a FACT.

[Ashley-Wood]

only thing i notice when running a brake booster is a diffrent noise from your pads or no noise at all, but it still holds just as good, and i was running an heatsink booster with heatsink coast on smooth rim held so good, but then i had to get rid of booster because it wouldnt fit, hit the tread because of a new try all tyre.

[HarshRider]

boosters make your brake hold better, and that is a FACT.

for reasons mentioned above

Edited September 17, 2008 by HarshRider

[psycholist]

After slapping a 4 bolt control booster on my echo control frame, the performance of the brake didn't change noticeably in terms of bite/hold. The feel at the lever though was much better - the lever pulls to the point where the pads touch and then it stops almost dead. It makes it easier to release the brake predictably when I'm kicking across gaps as well as reducing arm pump (I find arm pump is caused/exacerbated by your finger flexing the lever in and out as you hop around, so the less the lever flexes the less your arms tend to pump).

[Ross McArthur]

I've found that they reduce the amount of bite, and in some situations can reduce the hold aswell.

If your frame is too flexy, try a lightweight booster first. My brothers T-Lite was terrible, so I put an RB booster on, this actually made the brake hold and bite better, because the frame was so flexy that if you set the bite point so the blade was an inch from your middle finger, it would flex so much that the blade would hit your finger when you were just on the back wheel. It's still quite flexy compared to some I've tried, but it's just right. I find that if a brake is too stiff I get arm pump.

Basically if your frame is stiff enough without, don't use one because it can make things worse. If you want one to protect the crossover, you can make a protecter type thing or just get a braided crossover.

After slapping a 4 bolt control booster on my echo control frame, the performance of the brake didn't change noticeably in terms of bite/hold. The feel at the lever though was much better - the lever pulls to the point where the pads touch and then it stops almost dead. It makes it easier to release the brake predictably when I'm kicking across gaps as well as reducing arm pump (I find arm pump is caused/exacerbated by your finger flexing the lever in and out as you hop around, so the less the lever flexes the less your arms tend to pump).

Interesting, veeeery interesting.

[forteh]

Interesting, veeeery interesting.

To confuse the issue further....

When my brake is too stiff I get arm pump and tendon cramp in my brake fingers

I think its each to his own, try it and see what happens; my brake is certainly alot better for me without a 4bolt booster, adding a lightweight 2 bolt might yet improve the hold - something to try

[Alex Dark]

right, theoretically the stiffer the frame / booster combo the more power should be utilised in stopping the wheel, however the more flexy, the more pwer is effectively wasted....

However, zoo pitbull 04; okay braking performance with an rb booster, better without

woodstock; shite brake without, okay with

coust; shite with, good without

zenith; good without, havent tested it with, although i will tonight and see what difference it makes...

Maybe some physicists / engineers can shed some light on this conundrum?

[Jamie_Neal]

Personnaly, I find a less stiff brake gives better bite and hold without having to pull on the lever so hard. Although I only have a couple of frames to base this on.

1) 04 Echo Control with Control booster: Silly stiff booster run with magura with a water bleed, Koxx blues and a medium to dead grind. Worked well when the pads were new to 3 months old and gradually went downhill. would improve after a new grind for a couple of weeks at best. Very little flex at the lever.

2) 07 Adamant A1 with built in booster: Same magura, bleed and pads and rim used (no cleaning/regrind between swapping the parts over). Fair bit more flex at the lever but the brake is sooo much better in wet or dry conditions. I was really surprised at the improvement considering how bad my brake had been on my Control. It has taken a couple of rides to get used to the additional lever pull.

Arm pump issues: Personally (again), I've found not much difference although with the added flex (all be it small) I do have to pull the brake a bit further and the release point is not quite so well defined but I have found that under usual riding, I don't have to pull the brake as hard so I think it has actually worked out a bit better.

I just hope the built in booster on the Adamant stops enough flex to give the frame as long a life span as my Control.

Also, my friend recently snapped his Czar 07 with a built in booster and his brake was ok. He now has a Gu LE which has no built in booster and his brake (again, the same set up and no alterations between swapping frames) has improved.

Take from this what you want, but personnaly, no booster gives a bit more flex, a better brake and no more noticable arm pump.

[Al_Fel]

right, theoretically the stiffer the frame / booster combo the more power should be utilised in stopping the wheel, however the more flexy, the more pwer is effectively wasted....

However, zoo pitbull 04; okay braking performance with an rb booster, better without

woodstock; shite brake without, okay with

coust; shite with, good without

zenith; good without, havent tested it with, although i will tonight and see what difference it makes...

Maybe some physicists / engineers can shed some light on this conundrum?

I've found it varies myself, I've had solid feeling brakes that were crap and flexy brakes that were good and vice versa. I think it all depends on your frame. If a frame is too flexy then a booster will help but some brakes can be too stiff with a booster. I'm not talking theoretically here this is what i've found through my own experience. I think it also comes down to how hard your pads are too. I remember having heatsink coust pads in cnc backing on a coust frame with a heatsink booster and that brake felt so hard it really hurt when you pulled it. The brake was awful aswell. However brown koxx bloxx with no booster was amazing. Then I changed my brake mounts to echo cnc things and the brake went poo ha ha.

I think the fact of the matter is, is that there is an optimal break stiffness and flex ratio. IF you think about when a frame flexes out then it flexes back in aswell and I think that has something to do with the braking performance. I think someone who's at uni should do a study on it lol.

[gzus11]

boosters make your brake hold better, and that is a FACT.

when your brake slips backwards your pads try and grip the rim but dont hold enough,

so the frame flex's out more than normal. having a booster stops the frame from flexing

outwards so the pads stay in place and you have more hold...

This was my argument in the other thread.

And as for the forks comment, i agree but depends which way your wheel is turning.

I agree with those. I had frame flex and poor brake power as a result.

I needed brake booster and remembered I had these DNA V-brake plates on an old bike.

I was going to use them to stiffen the frame and mount the brakes, but my tyres are too fat

for the maggie mounts to fit, so i removed the canti studs and mounted them as boosters, my

brakes are excellent now, no spongieness or frame flexing, and the pads apply much greater

force on the rims.

Pictures below

other pictures on flickr

[Ross McArthur]

I've found it varies myself, I've had solid feeling brakes that were crap and flexy brakes that were good and vice versa. I think it all depends on your frame. If a frame is too flexy then a booster will help but some brakes can be too stiff with a booster. I'm not talking theoretically here this is what i've found through my own experience. I think it also comes down to how hard your pads are too. I remember having heatsink coust pads in cnc backing on a coust frame with a heatsink booster and that brake felt so hard it really hurt when you pulled it. The brake was awful aswell. However brown koxx bloxx with no booster was amazing. Then I changed my brake mounts to echo cnc things and the brake went poo ha ha.

I think the fact of the matter is, is that there is an optimal break stiffness and flex ratio. IF you think about when a frame flexes out then it flexes back in aswell and I think that has something to do with the braking performance. I think someone who's at uni should do a study on it lol.

Best reply yet!!! Makes sense man.

[Alex Dark]

Best reply yet!!! Makes sense man.

its definitely the one that makes most sense....any uni people care to contribute?

[Ross McArthur]

I agree with those. I had frame flex and poor brake power as a result.

I needed brake booster and remembered I had these DNA V-brake plates on an old bike.

I was going to use them to stiffen the frame and mount the brakes, but my tyres are too fat

for the maggie mounts to fit, so i removed the canti studs and mounted them as boosters, my

brakes are excellent now, no spongieness or frame flexing, and the pads apply much greater

force on the rims.

Pictures below

other pictures on flickr

Ha ha ha

Man I had a Saracen that looked exactly like that one with the sus forks n all!! That was the most fun I ever had on a bike! those were the days! I even used that V converter as a booster like you did! strange.

Any way im going off topic. lol

Keep the replies comming. All are relevant.

Thanks if you have conrtibuted.

[Tim/Trialsin USA]

I third Grant-Hundly and Adam.

There is measurably more power being delivered to the rim with a booster, assuming equal amount of pressure applied to a non boostered lever and one with.

There are other issues that change when putting on a booster. Flex and torque (as distinct from simple bowing out that gets reduced by bolting on a booster) of the seat stay most notably. These changes are going to fall into the "feel" category, and the benefits/down side of these changes is purely subjective.

The amount of flex in the booster is another issue. Thickness does not automatically produce a stiffer booster, conversely, nor a thinner one automatically produce a more flexible one.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Tim/Trialsin USA

[Al_Fel]

Another thing id like to add is I think the amount of brake pad material makes a noticeable difference as well, If you've got a brand new set of pads that are 6mm thick then there's going to be 6mm of material to push into the grind etc. but if you've got worn out pads that are only 3mm thick then there is less pad to mould its self into the nooks and cranny's.