Vee Vs Magura/echo

[spartan]

I have a set of avid ultimates with zhi adapters and heatsink red pads. But i just can seem to get the brakes how i want them. Like for them to feel good i get no power and when i set them up for power they feel like garbage.

I want to buy the new Echo ST rim brakes but im just wondering if they are solid or not like do they have leaks or anything (if they are even out yet) and i want to make a billion % sure im making the right choice.

Can i set up the echos to feel like my vee brake (ie solid but engaging closish to the bars) and still get lots of power out of them. I have a czar 26 with a built in booster, should i run a 4 bolt aswell or will i be ok.

Also im thinking of getting the coust pads with them, would these be good for a fresh light grind too worn out grind or should i just get another set of heatsink reds??.

Thanks and sorry to have to bring this up again i just want to make extra sure,

Ian

[Luke Rainbird]

If you can't get an ultimate set up both how you like the feel of it and with enough power, you're doing something wrong somewhere along the lines

If you do choose to go to a hydraulic brake, however, it's easy enough to get it to engage with the blade almost to the bar - just move the pads out a touch/wind out the TPA

[BenLeacock™]

I couldnt get my ultimates to have enought power for the back neither Deore arms are awsome, so much better than my ultimates

[Ben John-Hynes]

I couldnt get my ultimates to have enought power for the back neither Deore arms are awsome, so much better than my ultimates

Wanna swap deore arms for sd7 arms?

come on ben

you know you love me!

[grant_hundley]

Wanna swap deore arms for sd7 arms?

come on ben

you know you love me!

dont do itttttttttttttt

shimano's just break a lot well from my experience..

anywho, you must be doing something wrong if your ultimate isnt powerfull enough my old frame was cracked to fook around the brake mounts so it flexed like a bitch, but still held awesome

Edited September 5, 2008 by Grant-Hundley

[BenLeacock™]

dont do itttttttttttttt

shimano's just break a lot

ive had mine for like 8weeks never even had to touch them

Nah sorry ben, there only like 12quid new though !

[Ben-jamin']

I thought the Echos worked amazing. The only problem I found was my TPA broke and jamed the lever, but with the new TR ones the problem is fixed because of where the TPA is. I'm also using the Coust pads at the moment. They work amazing! Especially with a grind.

[spartan]

If you can't get an ultimate set up both how you like the feel of it and with enough power, you're doing something wrong somewhere along the lines

Its just that like when i had my ultimates and heatsink pads at the start they were awsome, lots of power and great grab.

But like after a couple of weeks they just like got all quiet and lost their bite and some of the hold. I reground my rim and sanded the pads but there was the same problem.

Im just getting frustrated with my set up, the adapters mean that i cant set the pads low in the rails to get lots of leverage and they always need to be fiddled with.

Ill ride it one day and love them then the next it feels completely different. Also when i try to go high unless i land perfectly ontop of the obstacle the brakes just slide out.

I sharp grind and lots of tar and my brakes still slip before my bald 909 slides out.

I just want to never have to touch my brakes again.

[Jason222]

What rim are you using?

[AdamR28]

I sharp grind and lots of tar and my brakes still slip before my bald 909 slides out.

That could be your problem, too much tar just makes brakes worse... Have you tried the brake without any tar?

[Ali C]

I also find shimano arms to work better than ultimates. They are also thinner, meaning you can put your adaptors in closer and have more booster choice.

I have heatsink adaptors, I have joined the three holes into one slot, that way I can fine tune where the brakes are.

I also found that a booster is VITAL, without one you get lots of bite, but not much hold, with one the hold is just incredible! but bite is scarificed a tad.

Pads also make a big difference, I have tried sooo many pads. What I have found is that just because some work well in a magura doesnt mean they will work well in a vee. I swear by harder compound pads (like my joypads at 90A (koxx browns are mid 80A compound)).

If you dont like how your pads are high in the adjustment slot, you can just wind on some speed dial adjustment in avid levers, makes the same effect as the pads being lower.

[basher]

Ive been runing vee for a year now id say and id never go back to magura.

If you are using a cheap lever get rid and get a sd7. Replace your cable with an xtr or odessy linear slick or something like that a decent one and make sure its lubed. I havnt got a booster get one a salsa or xtr if you can if not just anything is better than nothing. Maybe buy some new pads if needed if not give your rim a harsh grind this will help the pads bed in (yours pads have to bed in everytime you alter them). Best way to set them up ive found is to take your time and not do a quick rushed job.

Screw the cable adjuster on the lever all the way in as that creates flex. Loosen off the bolt on the arm that holds your cable tight now pull it though to where you like the lever to pull into ( nipping the bolt up pull the lever in lightly to find how it feels and changeing and doing same again is best way ive found) when youve got it how you want tighten it up.

Undo a pad pull the lever in move the pad so its sitting in middle of rim and pull the lever in hand with one hand and tighten the bolt with the other. Do the same on the other pad.

Now wind both spring screws off. Start to tighten them now keeping the pads even so tigthening or loosening as appropriate. Keep checking the lever and how light it feels. You can get it to feel so lighter with a well lubed cable it really helps with arm pump. You want the lever to feel smooth and lighter but with enough spring tension to retract the lever properly and smoothly.

Now you have the feel of lever how you want, check the pads to see if they are hitting properly because you have moved thearms so the pads will have moved also change if need be. If you have to change the pads recheck they are equal distance and if need be change the spring tension checking the lever feel aswell.

Once youve done that your brake should be amazing. Vees arnt known for bite so if thats what your expecting im afriad unless you run a smooth rim and bit of tar its not what you will get. Vees are known for there unbelievable hold. If you get a booster dont use any big spacer things just use a washer or 2 just so everything clears that way its alot stiffer.

Hope ive helped, and like adam said stay off the tar.

[craigjames]

not really had any problems with my rear ultimate. loads of bite and the hold is unreal and thats with quite a technically poor set up. going to runa slightly narrower rim so i can get pads in the right position, should only improve things.

[Christophe']

I also find shimano arms to work better than ultimates. They are also thinner, meaning you can put your adaptors in closer and have more booster choice.

I have heatsink adaptors, I have joined the three holes into one slot, that way I can fine tune where the brakes are.

I also found that a booster is VITAL, without one you get lots of bite, but not much hold, with one the hold is just incredible! but bite is scarificed a tad.

Pads also make a big difference, I have tried sooo many pads. What I have found is that just because some work well in a magura doesnt mean they will work well in a vee. I swear by harder compound pads (like my joypads at 90A (koxx browns are mid 80A compound)).

If you dont like how your pads are high in the adjustment slot, you can just wind on some speed dial adjustment in avid levers, makes the same effect as the pads being lower.

Truth

V brakes are better than Maggies if set up correctly.

[aener]

V brakes are better than Maggies if set up correctly.

Corr.....

Just wait 'till the TGS bums read this.... It'll be 8 pages long by the end of the day

[Luke Rainbird]

Lots of tar, frequent regrinds and fiddling with the brake will reduce it's performance

Other than adjusting for pad wear (so maybe a slight tweak every 6 months or so running Heatsink reds on a light grind) I don't need to adjust my brake at all!

Each time you change the setup, regrind etc, the pads will sit differently on the rim, and so will need to bed in (both the pads and the grind) which will cause them to perform at a sub-par level for a while

[scorpy]

Hi if you are starting with v brakes for the first time what would be the best set up to have,would xtr arms and levers b ok.Advise would be great.

Edited September 6, 2008 by scorpy

[BenLeacock™]

Hi if you are starting with v brakes for the first time what would be the best set up to have,would xtr arms and levers b ok.Advise would be great.

Pointless paying for the xtr arms, deore arms work very well and just as cheap. Xtr levers are very good, but again avid sd7 lever do the job just fine and are cheaper!

[scorpy]

Pointless paying for the xtr arms, deore arms work very well and just as cheap. Xtr levers are very good, but again avid sd7 lever do the job just fine and are cheaper!

so if i was to grind my rim use those heatsink pads deore brake arms and avid sd7 levers and a booster it should work pritty damn gd!

[spartan]

Ok so what im getting is to regrind my rim pretty harsh and set up the pads again then ride it for a while until it beds in.

The trouble i have is they used to have lots of bite, but just one day they go all quiet and had zero bit whatsoever, like literally none. I didnt change anything at all, it just sat in my garage and changed.

I use a dangerboy lever so i dont have leverage adjust so theres no real way to make up for the lack of leverage.

Ill sand my pads down a little and grind my rim again and stop bitching about if for a few rides and see if that helps,

Thanks guys,

Ian

[Mat Smith!]

Corr.....

Just wait 'till the TGS bums read this.... It'll be 8 pages long by the end of the day

Vee brakes are amazing, espesh ali c's, just hasnt got enough bite for my liking, front ones are beast though with the right pads.

Mat

[Elmo =)]

front vee use coust's on a sharp grind with sd7 lever and sd7 arms = monster of a brake, i rember maher's on his echo. soo bloody powerful.

[spartan]

Ok i heard something about bedding in, i know you need to do this with discs but how long should it take for a vee.

I just put a nice sharp grind on and sanded the pads so there was no black on the bottom.

Im just wondering like am i looking at an hour or so of riding (trials) or a week or what, when should i expect peak performance?

[spartan]

ok i just went out for about 30 minutes and there was zero perceptible difference.

Both pads hit the rim perfectly square right in the middle, the pads are sanded and the rim freshly ground just like 3 hours ago.

I dont know if there is supposed to be some secret to perfect brakes but if there is i just dont have it.

Again tonnes of bite and power going backwards but only a bit of power forwards and no bit whatsoever, like literally none at all.

HELP!!

[joey vajda]

I like my maggie in the back and my monty vee in the front ha! Rock pad blue's in the back and some rubber avid pads atm in the front! Can't complain, going to be getting some Rock greens for the front soon though, think it will be intense.