For All You 24" Nutters

[Matthew_Gibson]

Looks lovely, a chalenger for the inspired? Or too dirt orientated?

Use a rigid fork or low height suspension fork with this frame for best performance.

Features:

• Weight 2.7kg

• Seat tube 320mm (12.5")

• Top Tube (physical) 55cm (21.75")

• Chain stay 375mm-395mm (14.7"-15.5")

• Head angle: 70.5 degrees with 4" travel fork

• Head tube length: 105mm

• 24" wheels only!

• Largest tire: 2.4x24"

• BB shell: 68mm / Seatpost 27.2mm

[ogre]

maybe for the brakeless ones..

[Grant Peters]

the brake bosses screw in: it looks like on the underside of the seatstays, which would look nice...

"The frame has an ultra clean look thanks to the new brake pivot system (when removed there is almost no trace of pivots on the frame) and the special removable cable guide system (if you don’t want to use guides then you can remove them and get a super clean top tube and seat stays)."

I've looked at these and they are really nice frames, however, the bb is low at 12.5 on the 26 inch version so i guess the 24 would be lowish too...

NS Bikes

24 inch Suburban

Youtube Video ->

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[paolo]

How about this guy. You can put brakes on it too.

It's a reset, I think tarty has it, though it comes from Canada.

Do you have any pictures of your frame built up ?

[Grant Peters]

This is one of the full builds they do; it isnt the actual frame, but has the same geo and sizing...

24 inch build

Just noticed the fork is a 440mm!! do give bb height of 305mm so you would have to run DMR forks or similar to get good geo

with a few changes this would look good

[Tom_]

LOL its the NS capital Dirt/street frame, not a trials orineted frame atall, designed for use with rebates and NS rigids or short sus so about 440mm length.

Not gunna work well for trials, one of the best street frame around at the moment though.

[J Trials 31]

This is one of the full builds they do; it isnt the actual frame, but has the same geo and sizing...

24 inch build

Just noticed the fork is a 440mm!! do give bb height of 305mm so you would have to run DMR forks or similar to get good geo

with a few changes this would look good

Looks awesome for street. What kind of bar/stem combo is that? Will it work on a BMX or a mod?

[Tom_]

Looks awesome for street. What kind of bar/stem combo is that? Will it work on a BMX or a mod?

No. Notice the MASSIVE height difference in bar rise in the case of bmx and stem rise in the case of mods.

THAT is how to build a capital. Or just buy a bmx.

[Matthew_Gibson]

after seeing them built up there just a big BMX...

[Grant Peters]

And that my friend is a good thing!!

[Matthew_Gibson]

And that my friend is a good thing!!

What ever floats your boat

[Jason222]

Really nothing impressive in those NS videos.

I'm against dirt jump bikes that people try to call "street" bikes. They're garbage. And these mtbs built up like bmx's, like the one above...honestly offer no benefit over a real bmx.

That reset on the other hand, looks prime.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Jason222

[Linus]

after seeing them built up there just a big BMX...

Yeah but trust me, there awsome!

Here´s mine http://archive11.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt.../21750763.jpg?0

[Revolver]

Really nothing impressive in those NS videos.

I'm against dirt jump bikes that people try to call "street" bikes. They're garbage. And these mtbs built up like bmx's, like the one above...honestly offer no benefit over a real bmx.

That reset on the other hand, looks prime.

I agree.

Street bikes to me look too plain and like they're missing something - suspension, colour, a decent stem length lol

And a BMX is so much easier to do BMX tricks on than a MTB.

I really like the reset, that style of trials bike is pretty cool. The ashtonDB thing, License is what it's supposed to be called, that looks badass!

[Tom_]

Sorry but what? Against street bikes because there big BMXs? I have owned both a bmx and a 24, and although yes the bmx is easier to ride, I know for sure there are alot of people that prefer the ride on a 24" street bike, there are SOME advantages. And they look to plain? There just BMXs with bigger wheels and different Geo. there no more or less plain than a BMX.

foo's

Edited August 13, 2008 by Tom_

[Grant Peters]

Again its a dirt/street frame but they do look nice: (disc only it seems)

Samoon

All types of made to order frames...

custom drawn tubing made from Japanese Sanko cromo 4130 steel tube

• Weight: 2135g(4.7lb)

• Seat tube 285mm

• Top Tube (physical) 557.3mm

• Chain stay 377mm-385mm

• Head angle: 70 degrees with 4" travel fork

• 25.4mm seatpost

• 28.6mm FD clamp

• Head tube length:110mm

• BB shell: 68mm

• 10mm Axle

• Largest tire: 2.3x24"

• Disc only

• Disc Brake Mount: International Standard

• Rear Dropout Spacing: 135mm x 10mm (nutted axle & QR compatible)

PRICE: 270GBP inc. UK postage

[Swamptin]

What, perchance is so horribly wrong about street rigs? I personally find the geo of a street rig, although not great for everything (I'll admit, it's too short for trials and xc) is quite versatile as far as bikes go. I ride a street bike and when I get it back on the road properly I'll use it to ride trials on. I'd wager a lot of money on the fact that large numbers of the users of this forum were riding trials long before they realized you could buy a frame with a rise in the BB, a seat tube less than your average xc bike and they probably started using either cheap rigid xc forks or sus forks. I didn't start that way, but plenty did. If a bike emulates a style it is because that is suited to the use the bike gets. See if you can do anything other than bounce around on your trials bike. Try and use it for some other purpose. It won't take it, at all. Now in stark contrast, although not a prime design for it my bike (a specialised p2) will do trials, trails, Downhill, XC (as long as I'm happy standing lots really), street, dirt and hucks when the mood takes me.

So stand on your high horse because you run a 20" mod bike or a 26" trials bike or, for that matter a 24" trials bike, but remember, at some point they were all just XC mountain bikes or a simple mode of transport. In fact, a lot of the mod bikes remind me of trying to ride some sort of kids bike. Don't be a tit, ride and be happy there are people out there thinking about what might or might not happen to be best to develop bikes. If you get stuck in one mindset you might never develop as a rider.

</rant>

On the plus side, feels good to be back.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Swamptin

[Jason222]

What, perchance is so horribly wrong about street rigs?

They're not good for 'street' riding. As compared to something with a more aggressive design, like the reset above. They should be called 'park' or 'dirt jump' bikes, depending on how they're setup.

I personally find the geo of a street rig, although not great for everything (I'll admit, it's too short for trials and xc) is quite versatile as far as bikes go. I ride a street bike and when I get it back on the road properly I'll use it to ride trials on.

I doubt anyone disagrees with this. You can do a variety of things on them, but nothing too too well. Especially when compared to other bikes (park>bmx, downhilling > full suspension rig, etc)

Now in stark contrast, although not a prime design for it my bike (a specialised p2) will do trials, trails, Downhill, XC (as long as I'm happy standing lots really), street, dirt and hucks when the mood takes me.

I'm sure that bike doesn't do ANY of those profusely well, it just gets by. And being able to do a few pedal kicks doesn't really count...you couldn't compete with it, just like you couldn't race in DH or XC with it. I'm sure I could say I've done all of those on my trials bikes as well, morely for a joke, but it could still be done.

Don't be a tit, ride and be happy there are people out there thinking about what might or might not happen to be best to develop bikes. If you get stuck in one mindset you might never develop as a rider.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Jason222

[spaceman]

Looks awesome for street. What kind of bar/stem combo is that? Will it work on a BMX or a mod?

That's a sankukai bar from 24bicycles, and I think it's the NS bikes quark pro stem.

I rode a mod and a 24 street/jump frame. I decided I had enough and I wanted to ride street-trials all the way. So I sold both and got the 24uk. I find that Samoon quite ugly. It's good - short chainstays, light in weight, but the looks of it is just not right. The seat tube protrudes out too much. I tried my friend's one, it rides nice. But I would say the best street/jump/park frame is from Tonic Fabrication. Tonic's workmanship is just superb.

Tonic Fab Howie (but 26'' only) I like the small dropouts, and the disc mounts. Very neat.

Tonic Fab Fall Guy - 24''. Uses bmx hub.

[Swamptin]

Jason, I know you got the "good" side of that rant because you quoted it back at me, but, before I have a mug of coffee (and as such chill out this morning) I'm gonna point out something to you,

I'm sure that bike doesn't do ANY of those profusely well, it just gets by. And being able to do a few pedal kicks doesn't really count...you couldn't compete with it, just like you couldn't race in DH or XC with it. I'm sure I could say I've done all of those on my trials bikes as well, morely for a joke, but it could still be done.

Be careful there boyo. When did riding a bike become about competing?

I would state that someone who could "do a few pedal kicks" does count as a trials rider, because that's where we all start from. Most importantly, they have an interest in the sport. While they may do it on a bike that is not perfect for trials, that's fine, at least they are doing it.

How would you classify trials though? Because that is key to how this discussion could develop. If it is defined by the bike, then I haven't a leg to stand on. And I will concede that. However, in my mind, trials isn't defined by the bike you use, it's an attitude to riding urban obstacles. Also, define "street". Cause that again dictates how the conversation might develop.

You can do a variety of things on them, but nothing too too well. Especially when compared to other bikes (park>bmx, downhilling > full suspension rig, etc)

I maintain I'd beat you down a dh track if you were on a dh rig though. I'd say I'd put in a good time in an xc course if you were on a jayboy bike. It's never been about the bike, it's about the rider. Why should my shed have to be valued at somewhere around £10k because I'm into lots of different riding? That's a tripe attitude, it completely negates the entire reason that most of us started riding bikes regularly. Relatively cheap amusement.

And now, before I see what you say to this, coffee time.

[Tom_]

STREET BIKES ARE GOOD FOR STREET.

PROPER STREET, NOT STREET TRIALS.

Jeez.

Edit: samoon is nice, disk only though which is gash, and those tonics, although very nice, you cant really compare them to a 200 odd quid capital, when there about 600 once imported etc. Into the Uk...

Edited August 14, 2008 by Tom_

[Jason222]

Be careful there boyo. When did riding a bike become about competing?

Cycling sports have always been about competing, or at least, to progress in some way. Unless you use a bike for transportation, but I wouldn't call that a "cycling sport". If you ride a 'street' mountain bike for all the things you'd mentioned, you'd get to a certain point in your riding before you hit a wall, and it would be difficult to progress beyond that point, because of what you're riding.

I would state that someone who could "do a few pedal kicks" does count as a trials rider, because that's where we all start from. Most importantly, they have an interest in the sport. While they may do it on a bike that is not perfect for trials, that's fine, at least they are doing it.

I wouldn't say that, if I picked up a random bike, and did a few pedal kicks, that I'd be a 'trials' rider. Just because you're doing one of the many techniques used in trials, doesn't make you a trials rider. Park riders use this technique whether they know it or not...likewise, you wouldn't call yourself doing 'trials' if you were bunnyhopping up something, especially on a 'street' bike.

How would you classify trials though? Because that is key to how this discussion could develop. If it is defined by the bike, then I haven't a leg to stand on. And I will concede that. However, in my mind, trials isn't defined by the bike you use, it's an attitude to riding urban obstacles. Also, define "street". Cause that again dictates how the conversation might develop.

To define the sport of 'trials', I'd first look at the word itself. The dictionary describes the word as meaning "A preliminary competition or test to determine qualifications, as in a sport." I would define it as a more competition mindset, whereas, street, is more of an artistic mindset. Trials riders look to achieve a certain line, usually going onto or across or down, like what would be seen in a competition. It doesn't matter what/where you choose to ride trials, it's the mindset you have when riding (ie urban OR natural). Whereas, a street rider, tries a certain line, not to physically get somewhere, but to make it look/feel appealing and interesting. Phil feeney also tried to describe this riding as 'art'.

Likewise 'street' mtbs limit you to what you're able to do on urban terrain. Lets for example, look at a STOCK Giant STP. (note that I'm using a stock build for example.)

This bike is often deemed as a 'street' bike. But I highly disagree. At first glance, you might think it would be capable to do a few things...but having tried this bike myself, I was shocked. Having only a large 36 tooth front cog, this bike has NO gear suitable for any drive train move. This drivetrain is designed for acceleration...and looks similar to what would be seen on a DH rig. I found it also manualed very poorly. Basically the only 'street' moves you can do on these bikes are abubacas and maybe the odd bunnyhop.

You can also see clear differences between a comp trials bike vs a street bike like a reset. They're made for completely different riding styles, so how can both be called 'trials' bikes?

Here's a video commonly deemed as "street trials". I'd just call it plain street...because you can see the artistic riding nature from this video...

Youtube Video ->

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[manuel]

sorry but no -

Youtube Video -> Original Video

yes he has changed the gear - but that is proper street on a street bike - giant STP i think .....

[Jason222]

yes he has changed the gear - but that is proper street on a street bike - giant STP i think .....

Yeah, I knew someone would have mentioned Jeff...that's why I was speaking of the 'stock' stps...IF you look at his, he's changed the parts so that the things I mentioned, would have been improved...

Still, in comparison...his street riding isn't as good as say...rowan or danny mac? lol Jeff has complained a bit lately about the bike he's riding, but I honestly think he'd be riding something different if he wasn't paid to.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Jason222

[Swamptin]

in comparison...his street riding isn't as good as say...rowan or danny mac?

That's a matter of personal interpretation. I find that video as awe inspiring as anything I've seen by Danny Mac. But, that's my personal taste. I also occasionally enjoy watching Tyler Klassen launch off a cliff or Glynn O'Brien barrel down a DH trail. Again, personal preference. Like the bike.

You said the stock frame was difficult to manual, yet Jeff's frame is the same size as the one you rode. Sure the larger chain ring could make a difference with getting the bike onto the rear wheel. The stem, sure, hydrolic brakes, a shorter fork, more slimline rear mech..... of course, all these made a difference when he did a wallride over a door and landed on a slope the length of the frame....

you'd get to a certain point in your riding before you hit a wall,

This is true. and I probably have hit a wall, certainly in my xc riding. Not however in DH, dirt or trials. But usually it's my own fear that stops me, not what my bike prevents me from doing.

But that's down to the rider, we're talking about bikes and style here. You seem to have missed something I was hoping was self evident in this thread. Let me quote you quoting me on this,

they have an interest in the sport.

So the person doing the bunnyhops and pedal kicks is interested, like me, in trials. They want to ride trials. Perhaps they feel uncomfortable on a trials rig. I know I personally dislike the way a stock frame feels... and mods feel just wrong imo. But I try to ride trials on what I have, a <quotation fingers>street</qoutation fingers> bike.

"you wouldn't call yourself doing 'trials' if you were bunnyhopping up something, especially on a 'street' bike."

I would if I was doing it in a trials fashion. If i saw a line that was a trials line, I'd be riding trials. That I may use a street bike does not prevent me from riding trials. It's an unfair stereotype. "He can't be riding trials, sure he's got a saddle on that frame!". Now, I'm not saying that anyone here says that, but it is a stereotype that people seem to like, "you I've no saddle" or "you I've a 20" mod" followed quickly by "It's a trials bike, so what?" I'll say it again, the first trials bikes weren't. And inevitably the people who first made really small frames with short chain stays and long top tubes were laughed at until people saw what use they were. But the bike does not dictate the sport or the style. I've seen guys hop racers around as good as some trials riders (It was, I'll admit in a DH video I saw somewhere, probably youtube). The bike does not dictate what it can or can't be used for, that is up to the rider.

Now, the devision between trials, street-trials and street exists for a reason. And it was there long before this discussion, so I had lost before I had started. But I'll stand by my words. I feel that to classify a rider by their bike is as bad as it gets. I will eventually get good a trials, or I'll stop riding it. Either way, like (I'm sure) a lot of others out there, I'm gonna be riding a 'street' bike. Perhaps someday we'll have a session. I ride a lot of street and want to get good at trials, but my bike shouldn't hold me back. Nor should I have to shell out to some company for a new bike because I want to try something new. That's the point I'm making really. "Street" bikes are great for helping you find what you want to ride. They will take a lot of abuse from all angles. I've ridden that geo or something similar most my riding life. I find it more comfortable down a hill than a DH rig or an XC rig. Because I'm used to it. But as I've said, it'll take me further than I'm currently willing to go.

In short, don't do away with the bike because "It's just a street bike". It's a damn street bike! It'll do 4X with that beloved 38t chainring. It'll do dh with that too. Drop it to 30/32/ it's a street rig. and drop it again and you'll have her on her back wheel in no time. Run a 22t ring on one and you'll see. The issue then becomes "but they're cramped", and so's a mini cooper.... man up and ride trials on it

And now, I shall make more tea. I've already conceded you are either more knowledgeable than me on the topic, or more willing to research it, and as such I've lost the arguement. Those devisions are there for a reason, but why? Why is flowy artistic riding less trials than trials? Why are trials riders in a "competitive mindset"? Can't you see your sport is pure art? It's methodical mathematical art. So why are those devisions there? Why can't I do what that "street-trials" guy was doing and just call it trials? Well, as long as I'm doing gaps and hopping up stuff and 180ing off and all that..... If it's slow, calculated and methodically worked out like trials.... why can't it be trials?