To All Those Who Ride Trials!

[boon racoon]

Too restricting. Too many rad dads and tantrums. Can't do any manuals in a comp either, they're pretty much my favourite thing ever.

Bring back the Bike Battle, allow for more creativity. But then you've got the issue of judging. It works in other forms of riding though!

[Rusevelt]

Too restricting. Too many rad dads and tantrums. Can't do any manuals in a comp either, they're pretty much my favourite thing ever.

Bring back the Bike Battle, allow for more creativity. But then you've got the issue of judging. It works in other forms of riding though!

Well stated boon. comps like the Redbull Bike battle, and recent Nissan Qashai challenge have certainly helped promote awareness to the general public about stunt mountain biking. shame today's london ride didnt happen then, public were in the masses at Tate Modern.

[Krisboats]

Whilst riding natural is usually pretty interesting and a good day out with the right company, comps seem far less "fun". Everyone says a brief hello and that's about it, with the exception of Adam and a couple of others at the last comp i observed for there was no talking, no banter and it seemed to have a pretty shit atmosphere. At the end of the day there was a big announcement for everyone who'd helped organise the event through the years, but there didn't seem to be a mention of a thanks for the observers for the day (if there was i never heard it from 6-7 feet away) only the riders thanked the observers. Kind of got me a little disheartened, not too much to say thanks to the observers for the day.

Its also such a hassle getting there and getting sorted. There are entry fees to be paid in advance, forms to fill out... the actual events are never in easily accessible locations which adds more effort and expense into getting there.

Street riding is far more relaxed, your own style comes into play a lot more. Its always lively and full of banter and its cheap and easy to get to.

I think if the event was worth it there'd be a lot more people there. Take the DJ ride for example. Easily over 100 riders there and more people who weren't competing and everyone just had a laugh riding how they wanted doing things they liked doing. It was great, there was cheap food (like £1 a burger on the bbq), good company and great riding. It was a brilliant day out really, and fairly easily accessible.

If the comp scene branched into things like that, places near the towns/city centres in the middle of the country on courses made up of obstacles people are used to or non-muddy rocks and I'm sure there'd be a lot more people going. No rules on clothing etc (who wants trousers in bright sunshine?) and no allowances for bash's or pedals on the obstacles (nobody rides as destructively as that nowadays anyway) so its how everyone is used to riding.

[bikeperson45]

In that case, ill never ever ride a comp!

Owen

If Ryan ain't into it, I ain't into it.

That is my general opinion anyway.

Organisation

[PaRtZ]

If Ryan ain't into it, I ain't into it.

That is my general opinion anyway.

thats the worst thing to say ever. I hope to hell youre being sarcastic... Why should you mimic seone else's life? Can you not decide for yourself? Why just become another duplicate of someone else? Whats the point? We don't need 2 exact copies of Ryan Leech!

I think a lot of people who are saying its all very serious havent actually been to a comp, or definitly not the ones Ive been going too. Theres alot of, almost, "gangs" at comps that tend to keep themselves to themselves and not mix in with others. When I go to comps, I just see it as more of a social lark, just like a big street ride

Like today, (before my chain snapped) that big triangle rock in red + yellow route that everyone struggled on, near the tent. As much as I failed miserably at it, it was a good laugh everyone hurling methods and techniques at me. I fived it but it was great fun. Then trying to bunnyhop it with no chain afterwards and ... yeah that bail i did was kinda silly...but its such good fun.

Lot of people saying that the sidehops are awkward and stuff but surely thats more challenging? Admitedly awkward sidehops etc tend to be quite high and hard to begin with, but practice on smaller stuff does help so much. And I also agree with the point said before, alot of tgs riders would do surprisigly well in comps, even if they dont think so.

[robster]

I could start a full on rant on this one, but I won't.

Trials, be it push bikes or motor bikes is a 1 man sport, not a team sport like football an so on. People do it for there own reasons, I do it because Robbie does it and it keeps me fit, and to be fair at my age I look around and see lads I used to go to school with piling on the weight and looking sh@@e, so for 1 it stops that lazyitus setting in, for 2 I have met some great friends through the sport and 3 it's a bloody good crack

It takes up a lot of time and hard work for organizers to put a comp on and it really gets my back up when people come on here who don't even necessarily ride comps and start giving the people who dedicate so much time to the sport a hard time.

i tend to agree with Tim, there did used to be more riders at comps, I wish I knew why they had gone, one thing for sure is that we do not have enough younger riders in the country at the moment. As a lot of you get older you find cars and stuff and loose interest in the sport and we need to back fill the sport, this takes us onto BIU, UCI and street. No way can a six year old ride a bike over demanding obstacles without resting a pedal, crank or sump hence the BIU rules, I agree that UCI demands a more aggressive approach and looks better, you can't really expect or want to see a six year old tearing up the local town.

I read an earlier post from some one saying they wish someone would email them a calendar of comp dates at the start of the year, he is obviously capable o using a computer so that is a lame argument for not entering and the entry fee if you don't turn up we don't cash the check so it doesn't cost you any thing to not ride.

I have just ridden a national at Addingham, name another sport where a 37 year old is competitive (kind of) can ride along side a world champ and various other international/national superstars without being ridiculed and laughed at, I know most do laugh at my unique style but you get the gist of what I am getting at.

Please please let us all try and pull the sport together instead of ripping it apart, we all have one thing in common......

We all live and love to ride no matter what style no matter how good or how bad we are so just get out and do your thing.

Sorry I did say I wouldn't rant but I guess I did a bit.

JP

[JonMack]

People do it for there own reasons, I do it because Robbie does it

It's nice to see that. I think a lot of people hate the competitive dad side, son rides trials because dad wants him to, and i think thats pretty awful for the sport. At the end of the day, we're all just people riding around on funny looking bikes with gearing that gets you nowhere and in most cases, no seat.

The problem is, as Partz said, people think of comps, and they think that it's super serious, and everyone is out to win, in some cases this is true, but it's gonna happen in every sport.

I wanna get to some comps, I wanna fall off in the mud, I want people to laugh at me, I want to laugh at other people in a friendly way, I just wanna have fun! But the distance is the problem, and it sucks

[PaRtZ]

The problem is, as Partz said, people think of comps, and they think that it's super serious, and everyone is out to win, in some cases this is true, but it's gonna happen in every sport.

I wanna get to some comps, I wanna fall off in the mud, I want people to laugh at me, I want to laugh at other people in a friendly way, I just wanna have fun! But the distance is the problem, and it sucks

yeah i forgot to point out that you have, some people DO take it majorly seriously, like too much in my opinion. But alot of people dont. Usually the well known elite riders are these that dont take it serious, particularly Wayne haha

Some people dont like comp pressure, which is fair enough, I think if people are THAT against it, then dont do it fair enough. But some people are more than capable of a good trial and just not making the effort which is kinda a shame

Meh I dno lol

[robster]

It's nice to see that. I think a lot of people hate the competitive dad side, son rides trials because dad wants him to, and i think thats pretty awful for the sport. At the end of the day, we're all just people riding around on funny looking bikes with gearing that gets you nowhere and in most cases, no seat.

The problem is, as Partz said, people think of comps, and they think that it's super serious, and everyone is out to win, in some cases this is true, but it's gonna happen in every sport.

I wanna get to some comps, I wanna fall off in the mud, I want people to laugh at me, I want to laugh at other people in a friendly way, I just wanna have fun! But the distance is the problem, and it sucks

Distance can be a problem but it can't be changed.

I have done all the rest of your wishes today and had a real laugh, laughed, fallen in the mud, been laughed at (many times)

The result in my class is very important to me and the only other guy in that class and we finished just 2 points away from each other, I am not good at all but there is always some one to pit your witts against and that is what makes the challenge.

JP

[Hurman]

I think trials may have been a victim of it's own success. People did ride street back in the days of 100+ entries but they were generally on mountain bikes. And the people riding at that time either rode motor bike trials - or had some connection with the sport - or rode mountain bikes on XC 'natural' trails or downhill. So it was only natural for them to ride on or over obstacles in woods, quarries moorland etc, territory they knew well. Trials has evolved over the years with the bias being more of a street scene than natural today, even motorbike trials has an element of street now!

I rode at Addingham today and rather than being intimidated by the top guys, I was inspired. How the hell they get up and over some of those obstacles is beyond me! I am also a trials dad who rides to show my kids how to swear competitively! But for one whole day I don't have to say no every five minutes because the kids love the events and want to go, as soon as they don't want to go I won't push them because that's wasting their's and my time. I have lost my rag with the kids in the past but when you ride yourself you realise just how de motivating it is to have someone putting you down all the time so I try not to do it, but it is difficult. Before you make any judgment have a go minding for your mate, you will shock yourself.

But as John said before the competition in our class is intense and is well humored but you are always riding to win. However, I must admit that after coming in second today I felt a bit low and as the kids wanted to go for a session at a local skate park on their bikes I took my bike in as well and did a few hops and messed around on the quarter pipe and these skateboard guys were well impressed and were asking me how long I had been riding for and said they thought I was good!!. This made me feel a million dollars BUT could never replace the satisfaction of completing a trial where I had tested myself both physically and mentally to the limit, seen the huge smile on my kids faces after they cleaned a section they got a 3 on the last round and had a good crack with many like minded people who were all there because they wanted to be.

Organising, setting up, getting to, riding and competing in trials is hard work but is far more rewarding than laying on the sofa smelling your own farts on a sunny Sunday afternoon!!

[robster]

Priase the LARD amen and goodnight

JP

[Krisboats]

I think trials may have been a victim of it's own success. People did ride street back in the days of 100+ entries but they were generally on mountain bikes. And the people riding at that time either rode motor bike trials - or had some connection with the sport - or rode mountain bikes on XC 'natural' trails or downhill. So it was only natural for them to ride on or over obstacles in woods, quarries moorland etc, territory they knew well. Trials has evolved over the years with the bias being more of a street scene than natural today, even motorbike trials has an element of street now!

I rode at Addingham today and rather than being intimidated by the top guys, I was inspired. How the hell they get up and over some of those obstacles is beyond me! I am also a trials dad who rides to show my kids how to swear competitively! But for one whole day I don't have to say no every five minutes because the kids love the events and want to go, as soon as they don't want to go I won't push them because that's wasting their's and my time. I have lost my rag with the kids in the past but when you ride yourself you realise just how de motivating it is to have someone putting you down all the time so I try not to do it, but it is difficult. Before you make any judgment have a go minding for your mate, you will shock yourself.

But as John said before the competition in our class is intense and is well humored but you are always riding to win. However, I must admit that after coming in second today I felt a bit low and as the kids wanted to go for a session at a local skate park on their bikes I took my bike in as well and did a few hops and messed around on the quarter pipe and these skateboard guys were well impressed and were asking me how long I had been riding for and said they thought I was good!!. This made me feel a million dollars BUT could never replace the satisfaction of completing a trial where I had tested myself both physically and mentally to the limit, seen the huge smile on my kids faces after they cleaned a section they got a 3 on the last round and had a good crack with many like minded people who were all there because they wanted to be.

Organising, setting up, getting to, riding and competing in trials is hard work but is far more rewarding than laying on the sofa smelling your own farts on a sunny Sunday afternoon!!

That's what downhill riding and beer gardens are for

[manuel]

No way can a six year old ride a bike over demanding obstacles without resting a pedal, crank or sump hence the BIU rules, I agree that UCI demands a more aggressive approach and looks better, you can't really expect or want to see a six year old tearing up the local town

yes i agree It may be difficult for junior riders and i dont really have a problem with the biu rules for that. but an age limit needs to be set and above then UCI rules should apply. It is the only way foward. Bikes should be ridden on the tyres - and not purposefully bashed around... everyone agrees that to watch (especially if you are not a rider) the biu rules suck. No spectators means the sport can never really progress in the same way as other cycling sports do.

[ben_travis]

yes i agree It may be difficult for junior riders and i dont really have a problem with the biu rules for that. but an age limit needs to be set and above then UCI rules should apply. It is the only way foward. Bikes should be ridden on the tyres - and not purposefully bashed around... everyone agrees that to watch (especially if you are not a rider) the biu rules suck. No spectators means the sport can never really progress in the same way as other cycling sports do.

AMEN....ill add a more substantial reply when im not at work.

[Jamie_Neal]

What have you started Tim?

With regards to the organising, having spoken to Barbra after the Fort William comp I understand why pre-entry is required and how much preparation is involved. (Also having experience of organising a couple of events in Swansea)

For comps you need to guarantee the attendance to ensure the event is worthwhile - if you only get one rider in each class, whats the point. In order to do this you need an idea before the day of the event plus it gives time to produce all the necessary paperwork - punch cards etc.

This is actually the first year I've been to comps in about 7 years and I have found they have helped my riding no end - if only by showing how bad I actually am. They have been well organised and you make them as fun as you want them to be - I have had a good laugh at all the ones I've been to (especially Tim's dancing in Blackpool).

The travelling can be an issue and having a car and a couple of people to share costs is helpful - especially when going to Fort William from Swansea although Dave's driving does cut down on the journey times.

I definately think an event/more events in cities/towns would help the sport - Bristol would probably be ideal. In Swansea a group of us did do a couple of events to raise funds/promote the need for a permenant facility (skate park, dirt jumps and a trials area) but Swansea council were pretty useless and basically said no to funding from them. The events themselves were a success though and consisted of a temporary skate park (marquee flooring and ramps built for the day), a trials area (a few pallets, boxes and we were planning on skips but they fell through at the last minute) and some dirt jumps. In all it cost roughly £9000 to do and most of that was on the skate park.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Tim Stedman]

some people DO take it majorly seriously

Yes, thats true. You have to remember its a competition though. There is reason behind taking the competing seriously... The feeling of winning is awesome, and sometimes, its worth delaying that gratification of enjoyment for the period of the competition for greater enjoyment in the form of winning. At least thats the way I rationalise it when i've had a couple of bad sections. I do greatly enjoy the actual competition in general though!

I want to and would love to compete BUT, Most competitions are on hour (each way) drive away, the rising cost of fuel is somewhat off putting. Pre entering/paying, what If on the day I can't make it? Thats £20 or so down the pan. It'd be better if I could just put my name down, then turn up and pay on the day.

Dates as well, I seem to be useless at finding out the dates for comps, If I could be emailed, dates + location for each competition for the whole year, it would make it easier.

All you have to do is work out whether or not you can make it, make sure its properly planned in advance and you're sorted. Once thats sorted you can enter with confidence. A bit of organisation on your part is a small price to pay for an awesome day out riding, and the chance to meet some great people!

It takes about three clicks to actually find out whats on, when and where! The effort I GUARANTEE is less than that of a 2 foot high sidehop!!

I think more than likely the street rider who can hop 50" could get quite good at natural, but is given no real reason to take up the challenge.

What reason do you need to actually turn up and ride a comp? Would you turn up if there were prizes? How about if the results and a report were written up in mbuk or some other mag? There has to be some motivating factor for new people to turn up and ride, I understand that. But without knowing what people really want, or the riders asking for what they want, things wont change. What motivating factor would get you riding a comp?

Too many rad dads and tantrums.

Tell me you've never seen a rider on street have some sort of outburst because they can't do something... Tantrums are few and far between thankfully, but some still put themselves under immense pressure, and cant handle it when things go the way of the pear.

Whats wrong with Rad Dads, would you rather they were all boring?! I think its great to see the dads of the young riders getting involved. Without the parents getting involved trials wouldnt happen. You've got the dads of the riders of days gone by to be thankful for where trials is today, whether it be street or natural.

Bring back the Bike Battle, allow for more creativity. But then you've got the issue of judging. It works in other forms of riding though![

If you really want another bike battle that badly, then organise one.

You are allowed for creativity in competitions. Thats why everybody rides each obstacle differently. You always have a bunch of options of how to ride each obstacle, its just up to you to think of them!

Whilst riding natural is usually pretty interesting and a good day out with the right company, comps seem far less "fun". Everyone says a brief hello and that's about it, with the exception of Adam and a couple of others at the last comp i observed for there was no talking, no banter and it seemed to have a pretty shit atmosphere. At the end of the day there was a big announcement for everyone who'd helped organise the event through the years, but there didn't seem to be a mention of a thanks for the observers for the day (if there was i never heard it from 6-7 feet away) only the riders thanked the observers. Kind of got me a little disheartened, not too much to say thanks to the observers for the day.

First of all, every comp is different, and sometimes the atmosphere isn't great. You can't always have comps go perfectly smoothly. More often than not though, the atmosphere is great! I find people are chatty and up for some banter aswell. If one bad experience is enough to put you off forever though, then maybe comps aren't for you. If you are persistent with them you will find you enjoy each one more than the next... In general.

At most comps ive been to the observers do get thanked, and at some trials they even get a present of some form. The bigger the events are though, the more this kind of thing can be allowed for.

I think if the event was worth it there'd be a lot more people there. Take the DJ ride for example. Easily over 100 riders there and more people who weren't competing and everyone just had a laugh riding how they wanted doing things they liked doing. It was great, there was cheap food (like £1 a burger on the bbq), good company and great riding. It was a brilliant day out really, and fairly easily accessible.

Unfortunately the organisers of the event dont have the time to do their own bbq, as they are so over stretched already. Sometimes even getting a burger van to come isn't always that easy! If you don't like it, you can always prepare your own food in advance. Maybe you could save money, and have something far more suited to your trials nutritional needs!

On a side note, Addingham was an excellent trial yesterday. Well done to all involved with it. It was definitely good to see a bit of a better turnout, and to see that most really enjoyed it. I can't wait for the next nationals at both hook woods, and shipley. They will both be awesome comps, at some of the vest venues in the country. Both kinda street rider friendly too!

I Haven't got time to reply to everyone just yet, but I shall try and find some more time tomorrow!

Tim.

[boon racoon]

You are allowed for creativity in competitions. Thats why everybody rides each obstacle differently. You always have a bunch of options of how to ride each obstacle, its just up to you to think of them!

You're not though really. It's like a drving test, you only get penalties for things you do wrong. You gain no extra points for anything you do well in or do differently.

[Rebelistic]

I've been a bit off form with work/moving/other hobbies etc. so I don't feel fit enough to attend a comp at the moment. When I'm a bit fitter I'm deffo gonna start doing more comps. 20 (or so) sections is quite demanding for the average street rider.

Perhaps that puts some people off - that in my opinion you have to be quite fit (stamina wise) to actually ride a comp. Perhaps there should be a lazy category for beginners and unfit people where you just ride each section once.

John.

[psycholist]

Possibly a fun/sport class might be a plan to get new people in. For XC races there are usually two starts - the sport class races first, does about 2 laps of the course and then when they've finished the expert/masters/elite (At least 2 or 3 times the sport race) etc. are started, so a sport rider can get a bit of (Not too serious) racing in, though there is still the odd twat who takes racing the sport class seriously. The great thing is that you can then watch (Or help with marshalling) the elite race afterwards.

Fitness is a big issue for competitive trials riding though - I'll quite happily pedal a mountain bike up 1000m of altitude in 1.5 hours (Did it last week - had to climb the same mountain twice, once from each side), ride street for hours hitting stuff over and over again, but put me on a line of rocks 5 or 6 bike lengths long with no flat surfaces and awkward hops and gaps between them and I'm ruined before I've done the line once...

A difficulty a lot of people probably have, certainly I see it, is that all the photos I see from trials competitions show people on obstacles that I will never be confident enough to risk or skilled enough to get away with. The natural tendency is of course to photograph the elite riders as they're the most impressive photographs, but it means I have no idea what level the non-elite sections are like and what level of riding is expected. A few videos of people doing the easier sections would be very good to help with this. I know it's already been said that you can pick your class on the day, but I still don't know if there's a class low enough for the level I'm at with natural riding - If I was to go to a trials competition I'd have to travel from the west of Ireland, so I'd want to be pretty sure there was something I could do before committing to traveling.

[Z o o !!]

Ive always wanted to do a comp.

I dont know why ive never done one and stuck to street everyday, I think its because street is what im good at, its what i know. As with natural riding i havent got a clue and im piss poor at it. I dont think il go to a comp any time soon just becuase i think il turn up to a comp and theyl be everyone in there freindly groups saying ' oo look a newbie ' 'lets go watch him and tek the piss if hes shit' thats the veiw that i get of comps.

[Ash-Kennard]

i think using your pedals and bash is a more manly way of approaching something, if somethings just too high to make cleanly, then smashing your bike into it just makes you look cool right?

[Krisboats]

First of all, every comp is different, and sometimes the atmosphere isn't great. You can't always have comps go perfectly smoothly. More often than not though, the atmosphere is great! I find people are chatty and up for some banter aswell. If one bad experience is enough to put you off forever though, then maybe comps aren't for you. If you are persistent with them you will find you enjoy each one more than the next... In general.

At most comps ive been to the observers do get thanked, and at some trials they even get a present of some form. The bigger the events are though, the more this kind of thing can be allowed for.

Unfortunately the organisers of the event dont have the time to do their own bbq, as they are so over stretched already. Sometimes even getting a burger van to come isn't always that easy! If you don't like it, you can always prepare your own food in advance. Maybe you could save money, and have something far more suited to your trials nutritional needs!

First of all... what the hell? Are you even reading what i wrote? I don't remember mentioning that it put me off at all, let alone forever. Why should you have to be persistent with them? Effectively your paying to do something you enjoy... why should it be hard?

I also don't know why your trying to reason with my statements. You made a thread asking for what people want. I told you, yet rather than take them on-board your trying to defend the competitions. Is it really so hard to get an extra person to help out who is going to man a bbq with some cheap £2 for 20 burgers from the local supermarket? Especially if your going to the trouble to getting an squad of observers. Sod nutritional needs, i wantz burgerzz!!!1!11one

Besides, the idea of the burgers was just a suggestion based on something that appeared very popular at the DJ ride. It was just one of the points that accumulated to a good day. The comp scene just doesn't really appeal to the vast majority because it seems far too formal. People turning up at random hill-sides getting marked on their points to put them through to other rounds and things. What i'm trying to say is....

If the competition was easily accessible in/close to a central town/city with a variety of obstacles, where your free to ride in a creative way with extra points being given for better lines/moves more people just might want to turn up. Prizes given for winners would be awesome and a bit of an incentive. Maybe, just maybe having head to head challenges as well. Get two identical sections and have riders race to the end with no dabs, whoever does it first wins. Just general fun antics that most people get for free on a street ride. If we're paying money to compete, why shouldn't it be fun, varied and interesting rather than the same old boring format of choose your section and ride through a couple of times under the clock. Have sidehop competitions over poles, tapping contests etc... It doesn't take too much effort to sit down and think of some new things for people to do, hell a manualling contest only needs a start line and someone to look at when each person stops manualling.

[MadManMike]

I have to confess your first post intimidated me and I didn't read it lol

But why I started trials?

For me it was meeting up with mates and having something to do. Back in my Saracen X-Tort days I didn't even know trials competitions even existed!

Kris is right, sorting extra little things out really isn't difficult but would get more people to come along!

[Scotty Evil1]

Trials to me is going to competitions. Its how ive been brought up, doing them since i was 6. You look for information about the comp, enter it, drive 4-5 hours there ride on terrain thats different to what your used to, some days get a trophy, some days not, then drive home.

Someone said in this thread that comps are to far away, and that they have to traval an hour to get to one. I have to travel over an hour just to get somewhere to ride. Thats another main reason i do a lot of comps, its the only time i get to ride, or get to ride something new and different.

I fortunate enough to have parents who are into trials, so there for its a family thing,we travel to loads of diffent places together, ive got there help with travel etc

People who are moaning about comps, please just try a few, then make your mind up, i know there not for everyone, but there usually great events. You get to spend a day/weekend, riding your bike, somewhere new, on terrain thats a lot different than your used to, your get to meet new people, and make new friends!.

I've never really been that into street, i enjoy it, but only once in a while really. Its good when im trying to learn something new, as there flat,even, dry ledges to ride. But theres no trials scene near me so i have no one to ride with anyway, so i might aswell ride on some rocks in the middle of nowhere, or go to a comp.

My dad understands both sides of the situation. Hes ridden motocross, trials, enduro,bike trials competitavly, and now does trail riding/ green laneing.

He said its a lot easier. He doesnt have to worry about entry fee's, insurance etc. Its a lot easier for people who have limited time to ride, or are just lazy

I've probably gone off topic with it all, but just thought id give my 2p

Scott

[Jamie_Neal]

i think using your pedals and bash is a more manly way of approaching something, if somethings just too high to make cleanly, then smashing your bike through it just makes you look cool right?

As for comps, I do wish there were some closer but hey, its been worth travelling.

Alternative formats would be good but at present the formats are governed by the rules although there have been changes recently but not as substantial as to the format.

Speed trials is good for spectators as has been proved at the bike shows but to set up and run a comp as a speed trials comp would be a nightmare if you had more than a dozen riders. It would have to be done in heats and only on one section otherwise you'd have too many variables as far as I can see.

The bike battle style is good but again if you had loads of people turn up they'd get limited runs unless you set up different courses but then you'd probably need more than one judge on each section and getting observers isn't the easiest thing.

Not really trying to be negative, just trying to work out how they could work - suggestions welcome!

What about duel trials (as opposed to speed trials) - two people riding on the same course and the faster person would get the advantage as they can pick the easier line - could get a bit dodgy and observing again probably wouldn't be that simple.

Jamie