The 4x4 Thread

[Skoze]

Get it done dude!

Stolen from OLLR;

The reason coil springs are gay.

The Gospel acording to St. Phillip of Sterndale.

And on the eighth day (when he had rested and was feeling, frankly, rather on the ball) God created the leaf spring.

The leaf spring articulated well, was not prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place and God saw that it was good. Not known for his modesty, the lord looked upon his spring and was rather chuffed, to say the least.

So pleased was the Lord with his creation that he considered, for a while, uncreating the foot, which he had created the week before and adorned with a red sock. The leaf spring had rendered the foot useless and those who bore the foot with the red sock had already become pious and uninteresting but God relented and allowed the foot to remain.

For generations man used the spring created by the lord and found that it articulated well and was not prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place and the worshipped the Lord for his creation.

There lived in the firery pits of Hades the evil lord Beelzibub and on a visit to the earth he looked upon the lord’s creation and was envious of the way man worshipped the lord for the way his spring articulated well and was not prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place.

And sensing that the time was right Beelzibub decided that he would lead man away from the way of the Lord and his creation.

Beelzibub appeared unto man and did take his own coiled, metallic tail, which he gave to man and did say: Here is a new kind of spring that is called a coil spring and it articulates well (although he did not mention that it articulated no better than the lord’s spring and was prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place).

Man, being stupid, did look upon the new spring and did think that it was good, even though it articulated no better than the lord’s spring and was prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place.

Beelzibub was pleased and, being on a bit of a roll, did then take the metallic scaley skin from his body and did give it unto man and did say here is something that is called chequer plate that you may walk safely, and without slipping, on the vertical surfaces of your landrover. Man, being stupid, did look also upon the chequer plate and did think that it was good.

Meanwhile the Lord did return from his post-creation holidays and did look upon the earth and did see that many men (who were stupid) had forsaken the lords spring, even though it articulated well and was not prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place, for the devils spring. The Lord was displeased and did call the coil spring gay (In the same way that he did call gay the men who did covet the bottoms of other men, especially as he had gone to so much trouble to invent girls, with tits and that).

The Lord did then notice that man had adorned his landrover with chequer plate and did call that Gay too. The Lord did then call white spoked wheels, that some men had shod their landrovers with, gay. The Lord did also notice that some men had adorned their landrovers with deep sills so to appear as skirts, in the hope of attracting men who did covet the bottoms of other men, and did call them gay too.

And so did the Lord eventually tire of calling things gay and so did create the interweb and with it OLLR so that it may continue, on his behalf, to preach the word of the Lord’s spring that articulates well and is not prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place.

And the Lord did say unto the admin of OLLR: ‘Thou shalt preach the word of the leafspring, that articulates well and is not prone to breaking and leaving bits lying all over the place, and thou shalt, on behalf of the Lord, call things gay and all things that thou shalt call gay shall be gay and so it shall be.

[shamus]

^ that is awesome

i want a 4x4

Finish my degree soon, going to start looking into it! My prospective employer is a mad landy fan, he's got two tax exempt landies ( I and II (which was his first car at 17 and he still owns)) and a brand new disco which he hates.

Not sure to go for a series, a 90/110 or what? I like the idea of a 110 (will my crosser fit in the back or get a rack for it?) but funds are gonna be TIGHT!

any tips of what to look for? i'm open minded but double cab would be nice (but not essential) as it'll be occassionally moving people as well as kit.

edit: I've also spent a little while driving a double-cab ford ranger pick-up, on a country estate. I really enjoyed it, good fun and pretty capable, plus it'd easily take the motor on the back with tie downs.

I forgot to add i've never done any mechanical work on cars and limited on bikes, having said that a friend is pretty shit hot but wouldn't be able to help all the time /store the vehicle at their workshop.

hmmm despite this, the idea is growing on me.....

Edited January 13, 2010 by shamus

[Fishy]

If funds are tight don't get a Defender, they are very expensive for what they are. Have a look at older Disco's/Range Rovers, you can pick them up for quite cheap in comparison. It depends what you want out of the 4x4 basically, what you're going to use it for? Any ideas of budget?

[shamus]

If funds are tight don't get a Defender, they are very expensive for what they are. Have a look at older Disco's/Range Rovers, you can pick them up for quite cheap in comparison. It depends what you want out of the 4x4 basically, what you're going to use it for? Any ideas of budget?

fair one, they do seem it, but have been concerned by the disco rust stories (i do know a professional welder who would work cheap though...)

The budget in may will be 1500-2000 if i'm careful but if necessary i can wait and save.

needs- well reasonable(ish) road manners, not fussed road performance wise (apart from economical (again ish))

I also work for quite often for martyn salt of the BNPS fame and will be getting more heavily involved with course/venue preperation in the future.

As well as all this it'd be nice to be able to haul the crosser to events (it can go places no 4x4 could) so preferably a pick up.

so priorities in order - load and people space, off road capability, reliability, economical, road manners (i am aware all of these things compromise each other)

i'm thinking pick up, double cab- maybe a cabbed pick up with a removable cover? basically a workhorse, not fussed aesthetically or street cred wise.

Edited January 13, 2010 by shamus

[Skoze]

Disco's rust like a c**t and good cheap Rangies are getting hard to come by - usually expensive to run too as most had 3.5/3.9 V8s in them.

For that money, you'll get a 2.5NA 110 which'll be alright - slow but a proper workhorse that'll just keep on going and going - same engine i've got to go into my 80" (but that weighs barely over a ton, so it'll be rapid ). You might get a 200TDI 110 if you're very lucky, my mate got an ex-water board one for bang on £2k which was a steal but was far from a good buy, diffs have blown up, gearbox decided it liked having neutral in all gears, various other problems, but chassis and bulkhead have been good. If you want to go off road, any LWB Landy will be awful in comparison to a shortie but they're still very capable.

I know i'm the resident series kid on here and am as such slightly bias - but i'd highly recommend looking into a 2a 109" (TAX EXEMPT!!!!), either already fitted with or look into fitting a 200TDI to it, awesome performance and really good fuel consumption for a landy! Standard 2.25 diesels are ok, slow without an overdrive, 25-30mpg, but utterly bombproof - 2.25 petrols are horrendously un-economical, you'll see 20mpg on a very good day.

With a 200TDI though, we regularly get 35-40mpg out of my mate's 110, the 2a will be lighter and as such more economical! Parts are dirt cheap, they're very very spartan inside but it's all part of it for me, whack a heater in and you#ll be fine. They teach you a hell of a lot from the workshop side of things through to the driving side. I know people will say it's not got coils so will be shit off road; not true. Set of 750s with decent tread will make a massive difference, and if you do find yourself struggling off road get a set of Parabolics with decent shocks and big shackles - it'll go anywhere a 110 will. I reckon you'd do that all for under £2k if you know where to look and don't mind a bit of welding.

As for load space, they are really, really roomy in the back. You might not fit the bike in but you could have a bloody good go at it! Especially if it was a rag top, take the roof off, some funky stand in the back = bueno. As for seats, you'll stick some bench seats in the back of either of the above - not the safest of things in the world but you can get belts for them, often factory fitted and you can then fit 6 passengers in! Perfect if you're only occasionally going to be fully loaded up with people. What you're looking on the double cab front really won't happen for the price range you've got, 110 double cab's are f**king expensive at the best of times and have a pretty rubbish load space in the back - better than mine but still - my truck is nothing to use as a point for comparison when it comes to load space

Edited January 13, 2010 by Skoze

[shamus]

i wouldn't mind popping the wheels off and sticking the crosser in like that (that'd loose a foot of height and bars can be dropped off loosing another 4") so maybe 39" tall or so?

the terrain won't be too mental but i have heard the same thing about longer wheel base landys, minor welding could be dealt with by my mate (i've seen some of his work and he's a wizard!)

looking to see peoples opinions on pick ups? we move some random shite like fencing etc so flat roofless load bays are a bonus.

anyway i'm sure my possible employer might be well up for helping me with retro fitting a 109 but can anyone give me some pointers for a first time (car) 4x4 viewer?

also down south they seem thin on the ground, gonna wait untill the 'winter- i need a 4 wheeler' craze runs out to buy though.

i might also enquire about his rebuild project actually, that'd be awesome, a project truck that i'd buy after

[Skoze]

Yeah you'd probably do it then - again the only downside with a pickup is people space, having only 3 seats in the front of 110/09's! Then if you managed some double cab action, you'd only have the room you'd get from a 90 pick up left!

They're not all that bad on normal off road stuff, just can get stuck 'cos of the length if you start being silly with them. Welding will only be minor, but even replacing cross members and outriggers is easy enough to do on them.

I learnt a lot from the first trucks i was looking at and got majorly f**ked around with, my advice is get as many pics as possible before you go to look if its any considerable distance away, take a hammer and i big screwdriver - if the chassis' is described as being solid, make sure it is! A good way to get money off is to put a hole in the dumb irons (behind front bumper) they ALWAYS rot, most will be easy to put a hole in even if they're still actually very good - nice and easy to repeair when you get it back too Check all crosses, check the tops of the chassis rails if possible, spring hangers on series', make sure it runs and drives if you want to leave it as is, check the steering's tight - an inch or two either way in a series is ok, any more and something's f**ked, defender's arent much better. Make sure the brakes work, can be a bitch to replace, and if something been "recently rebuilt" as they always have been in the adverts, make sure it's not britpart stuff - it WILL fail in under 2 months.

Bulkheads are easy to sort, series motors will rot on the top rail under the seal of the windscreen where it folds up - look under there if possible, door pillars go, footwells rot all the time but all are easy to replace, defenders are better but still rot around the top corners the most.

Every landy leaks oil, but if it's excessive check it out further, a bit around the bottom of the gearbox/ tranny box, diffs etc is fine. Get it up on a jack and wobble the wheels a bit to check the bearings, jack it and turn the propshafts, too much play before the wheels move is never a good sign - check they're not loose at all too.

Basically, just be really thorough and look like you know what you're doing, even if you dont

Oh, and what's this project you speak of?

OH! And if you're looking into 2a 109's or early series 3's, make sure it's not a ringer!!! It's easy to put a 2a grille and plate onto any series 3 - the door hinges should stand proud on 2's, they're flat and rounded on 3's, if it's a 2a with rounded hinges ask about it - 3's on wrong plates are harder to tell apart, but have a look online and check the numbers on the chassis (front near side dumb iron i think? they're all over the place... ) and check that numbers on the engine, gearbox and axles are both the right model for what it is (2/2a on a 2/2a, 3's on a 3) and preferably close together numbers - google will tell you all about that 'cos i'm pretty shit on anything other than S1's!

Edited January 13, 2010 by Skoze

[l33th3tr33]

get a 90, chuck in a 300tdi which is a piece of piss and you're sorted.

[shamus]

Thanks skoze, you're spot on! big kudo's

the project is a series I, think its rag top but not sure on details, modern (ish) engine transplant and a new box- i'll try and discover details, he mentioned he wouldn't mind a hand

but he's an enthusiast, he's 40 odd now but he rebuilt his first series II on their old farm at the age of 16 and done several since, repairs then sells etc.

double cab would be preferable but not essential, as i said that double cab ranger managed the kinda stuff i need it for but if it did a lil more i'd green lane it

Edited January 13, 2010 by shamus

[Skoze]

get a 90, chuck in a 300tdi which is a piece of piss and you're sorted.

For <£2000?

And now worries Shamus, it's just things i've picked up and wished i knew/ had done when i started out, i got dragged on a 400 mile round trip to see a pile of scrap pretending to be a series 1 last summer with 4 landies and a 16ft Ifor, that wasn't ideal. Would be cool if you could find out about his project though dude!

Oh and one more thing, never pay the asking price! Pick holes in it, start low on offers and know what it's actually worth - search around online to get a guide price in your head.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Skoze

[shamus]

yeah i'm never any good with the barter, however i may drag along my resident expert (if he'll spare the time (he's director of a civil engineering firm but he thinks i'm great and also is a land rover nut))

i've dropped him an email, which he usually replies within 24hrs too, hopefully i may have my learning tool, mentor and purchase

[l33th3tr33]

For <£2000?

i got lucky....... someone had a housefire and had no insurance, so i fitted their facias and gutting and a few tiles on the roof and got given the landy in return

then bought a disco with immobiliser problems from a retard for 200 quid (turned out to be a fuse LMFAO) and then stripped and sold everything but the chassis engine and axles.

[Skoze]

Sounds good Shamus! Look forward to hearing how it goes I'll keep an eye out for you.

And that's pretty lucky for you dude! (not so much them...) Discos with daft owners are godsends for cheap parts and an easy profit, truly awful for 95% of other things though

[shamus]

My project is a 1967 Series 2a 109 (long wheelbase) Station Wagon (5 doors, two rows of seats with additional benches in the back).

When finished it will not be your conventional Landy 109 Safari.

Just before Christmas I bought of Ebay a 1996 Disco for £360. This is the donar vehicle for the project. I will be using the 2.5Tdi engine, a 5 speed gearbox from a modern defender and the disco axles. Suspension is all Old Man Emu, with a 2” lift, and slightly oversized tyres. All in all when done it will look like an old series vehicle running on modern a chassis and suspension, with good road speed without compromising any off road ability. The idea is that it will be our family car for holidays, greenlining (it’s also having a winch on the front) etc.

So far I have demolished the disco and removed all the bits I want, the shell is standing outside the house on axle stands. The new chassis is due to arrive at the end of the month, and I am part way through stripping down the Disco axles. These will be going of to be shot blasted before being painted and rebuilt.

As you probably I also have a 1960 Series 2 88” (short wheel base), I have had this for years, rebuilt it twice and now my wife drives it every day to work. I think it is the ideal Landy to start with, best is the soft top either Series 2 or 2a, preferably pre 73 at they are tax free. Would suggest you steer clear of the diesels (sluggish, smokey & bloody awfull) and V8’s (8 – 12 mpg, high insurance, brakes need to be servo assisted, but great fun and a sweet (the best sounding) engine).

Any time you want to have a play do let me know.

^^to quote my old boss, damn he's holding onto them but ye there we go!!

gonna keep saving and keeping an eye out etc

[Skoze]

Sounds like he's pretty into them! Nil points from me on the 109 if he keeps it on a '67 plate, though

Sweeet sounding project none the less! And diesels aren't THAT bad haha - they only smoke if they're f**ked, and a 2.25 with an overdrive will do 70 on the flat easy enough in any shorty

TDi's are definitely the future though, stuck one in my mate's 86" series 1 with an Ashcroft high ratio box and topped a ton on the fens with no roof or seat belts, one of the stupidest car related things i've ever done - that could have ended horrendously badly. We drifted it round a huge roundabout in Peterborough with a half ton Sankey trailer on the back, too

Seen anything that takes your fancy yet?

[shamus]

i thought the chassis and shell had to be classic but the rest is ok to update? or am i being dense?

it's annoying, i need a big one to get the bike in, but that makes it less of an off roader, reduces economy and performance.

may just go for a shorty, and leave benches in the back.... and get a rack

it's not until may i can actually buy anything though, having said that...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-SERIES-3-...=item27ae874f6b

and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BUY-A-LANDROVER-SERI...=item1e59f31c7e

Edited January 16, 2010 by shamus

[Skoze]

Pretty much, body counts for nothing though Chances are nothing will ever be said about it, but if it does he's in a whole world of trouble. There's a points system to keep it tax-exempt, think you need to retain 8 out of a possible 14 points from the tax exempt vehicle you started with;

1 Point for the engine.

5 Points for the chassis.

2 Points for the transmission.

2 Points for the steering assembly.

2 Points for the suspension

2 Points for both axles.

= 14 Points in total.

I might have read it wrong, but if he's sticking coils on it (even if he's modifying the current chassis) he'll only get 7 points at the max, so it should be on a Q-plate. If it's on a whole new chassis, he'll be getting 2 points from the steering assembly and i'd have thought that would be changed to a PAS system.

I couldn't really care as it's a sweet project and it's not, say, a 90 getting a tax exempt reg on it. That just takes the piss. When things start getting hugely modified there's often quite a lot of hate directed at them from owners of "proper" tax exempt leafers shitting bricks about the possibility of the tax exemption system getting scrapped because of people sticking false ID's on later trucks to avoid the road tax (there are SO many ringers around it's unbelievable, it's only a matter of time before something gets done about it and the more there are, the closer that action gets)

Really appreciate the work going into it though! Will be an absolute machine when it's done, will be cool to stay updated

If the DVLA decide to check it after it's had the engine etc changed on the V5 he might come unstuck, but i doubt that'll happen - they came and looked at the 86" me and Jon built, but that was pretty much a ground up bitsa made from about 3 landy's

Those two look pretty sweet! Second of the two would be good, that lightweight's worth about £500 as it is. Admittedly it'd have the logbook and front end put onto a later one, but it'll recover a lot of what you'd pay out and when it's out of your hands, it's nothing to worry about!

[shamus]

Pretty much, body counts for nothing though Chances are nothing will ever be said about it, but if it does he's in a whole world of trouble. There's a points system to keep it tax-exempt, think you need to retain 8 out of a possible 14 points from the tax exempt vehicle you started with;

1 Point for the engine.

5 Points for the chassis.

2 Points for the transmission.

2 Points for the steering assembly.

2 Points for the suspension

2 Points for both axles.

= 14 Points in total.

I might have read it wrong, but if he's sticking coils on it (even if he's modifying the current chassis) he'll only get 7 points at the max, so it should be on a Q-plate. If it's on a whole new chassis, he'll be getting 2 points from the steering assembly and i'd have thought that would be changed to a PAS system.

ahh that explains a lot, from waht i gather its goin to be a exempt chassis, suspension and i guess steering. but not 100%

skoze any other forums i should check out to get a little more knowledge?

he know's the score though and his other exempt landy is all original so wait and see...

i hate having to wait, just want to buy one now! (even though i have no money)

in a week or two i have a free weekend so i might pop out to see him, ask if he wants a hand or anything

Edited January 16, 2010 by shamus

[Skoze]

Ah cool, sounds like it'll be a really nice truck either way

I've only ever cared for Leafers, so only really know leafer forums.

There are a few, try OLLR, brilliant forum to be on if you can deal with the banter (remember that! it is pure banter, you will get the piss ripped out of you at some point, everyone does ) they're all a great bunch of guys, all involved for the same thing. Everyone runs their motors on a shoe string, everybody helps eachother out no-end, i got a free engine, gearbox and exhaust for my original S1 project from a dude on there, my mate Joskin relayed a chassis from Lincoln to the south of France for Drew (!) really is awesome. Just don't mention anything about coilers, you will be mocked for eternity.

Very small forum, only about 300 members of which only about 20 post on a regular basis. Huge wealth of knowledge though, and if you get stuck with a project, someone local would gladly head over and give you a hand on a weekend.

Introduce yourself in the introductions thread, then whack up a wanted topic when you know what you want and how much you have to play with. They're great, don't really care about pristine concours trucks with totally original spec lists, it's all about using them every day how they were inteded to be used. Massive green laning trips, events all over the country and Euro-leafing roadtrips to places like Norway, Sweden, down to Drew's in the south of France, even went to Africa a few years ago! I keep banging on about Drew, too - he's the best admin in the world ever and you'll love him .

There are others like The Series 2 Club, they're all rivet-counting old men with beards though which gets very tedious, but a very good place to go if you want a 2/2a.

There is a series 3 club too, but as a general rule it's pretty shit... Has stuff on 90's and 110's too.

Then there's LRO (the magazine) Al;ways a lot for sale and a fair bit of knowledge from a select few, but it's mainly inhabited by retards who like to bolt things on to their 90's whilst not actually having a clue about them/ taking them any further off road than Tesco's car park.

Keep checking eBay, Pistonheads, Carandclassic etc too.

So in conclusion, join OLLR... NOW!

Edited January 16, 2010 by Skoze

[shamus]

i'm on 4x4uk.org now, there is loads of info/tips on there. it covers just about every kind of 4x4 ever. admittedly not so much on classic rovers though, a few keen people but more into abusing them off road then appreciating an engineering masterpiece (ish)

hit up OLLR now, i made a real boob and didn't read the new sticky which says your forum name now has to include a reference to landies, otherwise it might not get activated! :@

oh well, we'll see. thanks for the tips though skoze, same name on OLLR?

EDIT: sorted , validated etc on OLLR, geez there's a lot of info, and these guys are almost fiercely passionate about leafers! love it

Edited January 17, 2010 by shamus

[Skoze]

Oh cool! Everything's good really, as long as you're learning something.

Haha, nah that's cool - if you don't get registered i'll tell Drew who you are - not many people's names are Landy related. Yeah, i'm Skoze on there too

Introduce yourself as soon as you're registered

EDIT: "The newest registered user is; shamus"

You're all sorted dude.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Skoze

[davey1991]

It may well be i'm not sure, gonna have a look tonight when my other car decides it wants to work...

This is the said place from above, spot the landrovers anyone.

Appauling photo taken from google maps.

[Revolver]

Appauling

Paul who?

[MadManMike]

Paul who?

The other one...

[Revolver]

The other one...

Very good.