New Bike Trials Magazine!

[that NBR dude]

But then if you're going to include moto trials, why not include BMX? That's like trials and a lot of people are into it. What about Formula 1? What about putting some car reviews in for people who are into trials and cars?

There's enough work to do on a magazine just about biketrials, there's no need to make it harder than it already is!

I think thats taking it a touch too far though don't you? Mototrials is the father of our sport. A small section about it would be nice for the poeple who apreciate it, as its still related to the topic in hand.

[F-Stop Junkie]

I think thats taking it a touch too far though don't you? Mototrials is the father of our sport. A small section about it would be nice for the poeple who apreciate it, as its still related to the topic in hand.

But it's a biketrials magazine. If it ain't biketrials, why put it in a biketrials magazine? What about street riding? That's got a lot of trials influence in it, just with ? If you're not careful, you quickly dilute the content.

[Mark W]

I know people say you get things for free on here, but in terms of reviews ect, I would far rather read it in a magazine, written and punctuated properly, with thorough test structures backed up facts and proper photos, not just some kid saying "its crap because it broke when i fell off doing something I clearly wasnt going to make". If I looked for a review of Try-all rims for example, on trials-forum, I'd have to sieve through about 12million posts of complete garbage, before I find any substantiated facts.

However, the same can largely be true of print reviews, in terms of unsubstantiated facts, and generally being low quality. MBUK takes the piss with how bad some of their reviews are. It seems for the most part that as long as the company in question has been paying their ad fees properly, they'll get at least an 8 out of 10 (or 4 out of 5, or whatever they do these days). Same with Ride magazine - I honestly can't believe they even put stuff on for one ride judging from some of the reviews they've writen for some parts that I know I've personally broken repeatedly, that other people have broken repeatedly, and that are notoriously shit - but the company that sent them gave them as a freebie, and they pay to advertise in the magazine. I don't trust any reviews I read in magazines simply because of that. You've got the reviewer, who you've got no idea of the riding standard of, giving their OWN review of a product that they may/may not have used much, but because it's in print it's expected to the be 100% accurate. On here, at least, if someone drops out a "Try-All rims are shit." post, you can ask them questions back as to why, ask them what sort of stuff they rode, ask them anything about it at all, which is why forums ARE good for stuff like that. You get a bunch of twats on here talking crap, but at the same time you get a lot of honest (Key word...) reviews as well. Generally, if I don't see any full stops in a post where someone's reviewing something, I know not to bother reading it. Pretty simple rule that tends to be pretty effective

I agree with pretty much everything Chris has said here. Interviews and larger features that forums either can't do, don't do, or don't do well is the key thing. That's why magazines are good. I enjoy reading the longer articles and feeling like I'm actually learning something from them rather than reading some "Top fives" interview or whatever. That's what'd make it sell.

I also agree it doesn't need to have mototrials stuff in it. Yes, it's 'trials' as well, but at the same time, it's done in a totally different way, generally by people who look at it in a totally different way, and it doesn't realistically have that many similarities to biketrials. From reading T+MX news, Trialsworld and so on, it's not, for me, as interesting as the biketrials world. There's a lot less diversity, and as a result, a lot less interest. Bearing in mind the people who buy your magazine are going to be buying it 'cos they're interested in biketrials, there just doesn't seem to be much point, especially when there are other publications out there that are going to be doing a better, more in-depth job of it?

[F-Stop Junkie]

MBUK takes the piss with how bad some of their reviews are. It seems for the most part that as long as the company in question has been paying their ad fees properly, they'll get at least an 8 out of 10 (or 4 out of 5, or whatever they do these days). Same with Ride magazine - I honestly can't believe they even put stuff on for one ride judging from some of the reviews they've writen for some parts that I know I've personally broken repeatedly, that other people have broken repeatedly, and that are notoriously shit - but the company that sent them gave them as a freebie, and they pay to advertise in the magazine. I don't trust any reviews I read in magazines simply because of that.

Not all the trials reviews in MBUK have been that bad, right Mark?

[that NBR dude]

But it's a biketrials magazine. If it ain't biketrials, why put it in a biketrials magazine? What about street riding? That's got a lot of trials influence in it, just with ? If you're not careful, you quickly dilute the content.

I think a problem would be though, is having enough content to create issue after issue. MBUK has been going for 20 years, because it covers so many aspects of "mountainbiking" so theres always new products, reviews, places to ride, people to interview. I cant see the same with just a pure undiluted "trials" magazine, but again, who is going to class what is undiluted "trials". Everyones view on trials is different. Are you going to say no reviews of 24" because they aren't "trials" and we dont want to dilute the content of the magazine?

[Mark W]

Not all the trials reviews in MBUK have been that bad, right Mark?

Chris, your reviews were boss and I bought every single item you gave a good review to.

I think a problem would be though, is having enough content to create issue after issue. MBUK has been going for 20 years, because it covers so many aspects of "mountainbiking" so theres always new products, reviews, places to ride, people to interview. I cant see the same with just a pure undiluted "trials" magazine, but again, who is going to class what is undiluted "trials". Everyones view on trials is different. Are you going to say no reviews of 24" because they aren't "trials" and we dont want to dilute the content of the magazine?

Nope, because 24" trials bikes aren't motorbikes? It's really not that hard to work out...

Ride magazine's been going for 11 years now, and they've still managed to get by covering 'just' BMXing. So I don't really think that, if you had a half-way decent editorial/contributing team that it'd be difficult to do? It'd be a lot of work, but if you didn't want to do work, you wouldn't try and start a print-based magazine.

[that NBR dude]

Nope, because 24" trials bikes aren't motorbikes? It's really not that hard to work out...

Ok, fine so mototrials was a stupid idea. I thought it might be nice to see it featured slightly, but ok I'll give up on that. Just expressing a suggestion, you dont need to get all arsey about it

[Mark W]

I'm not, it just seemed pretty ridiculous to suggest that 24" riding was as different to 'normal' biketrials as mototrials is?

[that NBR dude]

Ian said he was going to call it Trials UK magazine, I mearly thought that some info on motoTRIALS would be a nice addition as well. But hey, lets drop it all and move on with life

oh and my comment regarding 24"s was to Chris, not you Mark, incase there was some misinterpretation

Edited June 6, 2008 by NBRCycles

[Christophe']

I have to admit to not reading the whole thread(only your first post) but why not call it BTUK? Like MBUK.

Bike Trials UK Magazine.

Just a thought.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Christophe'

[F-Stop Junkie]

Everyones view on trials is different. Are you going to say no reviews of 24" because they aren't "trials" and we dont want to dilute the content of the magazine?

24" Inspired/Heatsink - trials.

26" Chase Cannondale 'street' bike with sus forks and big gears - not trials

That was the sort of street I meant, but it's really shades of grey, isn't it?

[JD™]

I've got to admit that I haven't fully read through everyones long posts on here, so please forgive any repition of other peoples thoughts.

I currently work on MBR magazine and have done for a couple of years, for that reason I'd say I've got a pretty good hold on the media and bike side of the market and for that reason I'd love to make the following suggestions:

* Choose A4 OR 60ish pages, not both. The reason for this is fact that Trials (as much as we love it) does not have the content every month to fill up that amount of space. BTM was A5 wasn't it?

* The other option, if you're set on both of the above, would be to start off slower - bi-monthly or quarterly. Singletrack started off quarterly many years ago, and through steady growth in a much larger market than trials they have only just got to being a monthly publication.

* Get financial backing. Advertising Advertising Advertising. It's all well and good you being able to carry the mag for a while but your own point about the other mags dying is solely down to the fact that this can't go on forever. The earlier you get the magazine to tickover on it's own the better - another case for going bi-monthly at least.

* Don't call it Tuck magazine!

I'm at work at the moment, so can't go as in depth as I'd like, but feel free to add me to msn if you want to chat about it.

J

[basher]

As much as id like to support it and say i would buy it as its a great idea i wouldn't, i just wouldn't actually end up buying it and i dont think most people who say they would will. Like said getting enough content each week will be tough and then if you do a article on a ride that happened a week or 2 back you have the problem that the chances are there was antoher photographer there and his photos where on here day after the ride and possibley a video.

How ever a website style jobber i think would work well. If you can get to the rides get some good articles get some videos made even, a dvd or downloadable video of a years riding would be even better and make it very appealing. You wouldnt be short of people wanting to advertise as theres shops and product/bike companies that no doubt would advertise on it if it hit off and went all good.

[F-Stop Junkie]

I currently work on MBR magazine and have done for a couple of years, for that reason I'd say I've got a pretty good hold on the media and bike side of the market

And thanks to him, the office never runs out of tea

As much as id like to support it and say i would buy it as its a great idea i wouldn't, i just wouldn't actually end up buying it and i dont think most people who say they would will.

There's also a lot of people will just forget to buy it. If they see it in WH Smiths, then they'd get it, but if it's subscription/mail order only, the impulse buy won't be there.

[JD™]

And thanks to him, the office never runs out of tea

*shakes fist*

you found me out

nah i do a little more than that. weekly meetings with kitch for a start, so sort of know whats going on...

[Heatsink]

It's great that you've been looking at this magazine idea.

This thing is going to have to be very very well thought out to succeed though. Much sense has been spoken so far I think, which should be taken on board & stimulate further ideas. I can think of lots of points too I'd like to write but don't have time in the next 2 mins. I'd really like it to succeed, and the more minds you have to look at it, the better rather than keeping it all a secret.

Have you proven to yourself that the figures add up to make it all worthwhile. Estimations of readership, costs, profit. It's all got to be as thorough as possible I'd say, and you've got to stay objective rather than doing it for the love of Trials when it may not be a business.

Looking forward to more details of your plans.

Steve

[JonMack]

Theres lot's of interesting stuff here, some good ideas, some bad ideas, and generally a lot of comments, which is always good.

Regarding Lukes comments, my magazine is available at http://revmag.co.uk if you want to have a look at it. I worked on it for about 4 months and although I had the layout sorted within a few weeks I was constantly chopping and changing it until I produced something I was happy with. If you want to see a high quality version feel free to drop me a PM and I can send you over a link to one.

Giving yourself a deadline of August is very hard, I don't know who you have working on the project with you, but I can say from experience, trying to do it all yourself is very hard work. I ended up resorting to other peoples articles and photographs because I didn't have the time to get out and get that kinda stuff done, I imagine you will be getting people to write up articles and do photography for you which is fine, as long as they do it properly, as many others have said, the last thing people want to see in a professional magazine is blurry photos or badly written copy. I proof read my work over and over again and I'm sure it still has some mistakes in, but I did the best I could.

Something you really need to make sure you get right is making sure the magazine is consistent. No one wants to see 60 different page layouts so you need to try and bring some kind of coherence into it. When I designed mine I had 6 master layouts, and then the page layouts were generally done at random, although due to the masters, each page had certain elements in which were the same, the headers were always in the same place, page numbers, etc. It just generally makes the magazine easier to read.

Make sure you do your research, I look through magazines now and I think, damn it, if I had done X feature here, or put Y element here it would have made it look so much more professional. Buy other magazines, lots of them, from cycling magazines to music magazines to graphics magazines and everything in between, you really need to check out a lot of the marketplace to see what other people are doing, and what kind of things people like. I can't stress enough how much I regret not doing proper research on this project.

I kind of agree with certain people saying articles go out of date quickly, and that everything should be online, blah blah blah. This is kind of true, I know of a magazine called One (http://believeinone.com) which is an online/print based magazine, they do previews of the mag before it goes to print, they then print it, and a month later release it for download. The magazine is full of adverts, which is to be expected, but also has decent articles in it. I suggest you download some to have a look at the layout and the kinda things they do.

I found myself adding in music and film reviews too. I think this is good as it allows people to have a break from the constant stream of trials based information. I very much doubt you could fill 60 pages with purely trials based articles, assuming 1/3rd is ads it would still be hard to fill 40 pages monthly, so something like a 4 page section with a "what's on your headphones" kinda thing could be cool.

Another thing Ride do is the top five questions section, where they get a pro/upcoming rider and interview them asking them simple questions and then getting their top five answers, it just helps break the magazine down into more manageable sections. Ride has the ability to get a few pages on news in the BMX world and new products coming out soon, this kinda thing isnt gonna be able to happen with a trials magazine as the marketplace is so small.

Also if you do do an upcoming products section, please get the photos taken properly, the last thing I wanna see is some kinda shitty angle full page blurry camera phone picture of someones cranks. If the picture only fills 1/6th of the page, then have it that way. With some things such as full size photographs, it's fine to make them slightly bigger, I myself was printing pictures from a 6MP D50 as A2 posters, because the viewing distance was such that you wouldnt notice artifacts in the images.

Make sure you look into viewing distances of magazines and see just how big you can blow things up. You probably need to get 30 or so people to hold a magazine at a comfortable position for them and then measure the distance from their eyes to the magazine, so as to get a decent amount of results so you know where you stand when it comes to enlarging.

Once you chose a format, stick to it, I have 3 issues of BTM sat next to me currently, and 2 of them are one size, one is another size, this is so stupid, it may be fine to change the format after 3 years, but every 3 issues isn't very professional, as you can see from my critique on the Onza website, I take professionalism very seriously. Also BTM generally looks like an amateur magazine, if you want this thing to sell in shops, you need to make sure it's of a standard were it looks good against the other mags it's going to be placed next to. I know it's the only trials specific magazine out there currently, but what's gonna make people want to pick it up compared to something like Ride, Dig, Document or Sidewalk. I regularly look through those magazines in a shop just because the sports interest me, and if there was a trials magazine next to MBUK, someone might be tempted to pick it up and give it a read.

The identity is very important, it took me nearly 3 months of work just to come up with a final logo, I was still adding in finishing touches about a week before the hand in date, once you get a decent name (not Tuck, please) get a decent identity sorted, and stick to it. Magazines like MBUK and MBR all have nice abbreviated names, BTM worked because it was simple, maybe you could re-use it, or at least think about it, because it was generally considered to be an alright trials magazine, from a design point of view it sucked, but thats something that can be rectified.

I think I've gone into a bit too much detail here, if you want to contact me then feel free, my email address is jon@jonmack.co.uk and you can find my telephone number on my website if you find that easier. If you need any help with designs, layouts, concepts or photography feel free to give me a shout, I have just finished a degree in graphic design and after releasing a magazine I'm always up for doing more.

I hope this has been of some use to you.

Cheers,

Jon

EDIT: Something I didn't go into was advertising, purely because I don't know anything about it. This post is probably full of professional flaws but these are things I found out while designing my mag.

Edited June 6, 2008 by JonMack

[Drummond]

Hellooooo,

Thanks for all the suggestions and interest, much obliged.

With regards to the mag;

Name change; I admit I didn't put a huge amount of thought into the name but as I was brain storming I simply thought Trials UK = TUK = Tuck and the 'tuck' is synonymous with trials. I'm open to change so please feel free to offer suggestions, what do we think of BTUK? (cheers Christophe')

I don't intend for this mag to compete with websites as far as up to date news coverage goes, its simply impossible! As I said in my original post this is a platform to support riders, sponsors, companies and events. But we will still be dedicating pages to our readers too, this 'package' will be achieved through;

Rider profiles and interviews

Coverage of competitions and events

Company focus; a behind the scenes look at the business' that make up the UK trials industry

Riding spot reviews (this will also feature the local riders)

A readers section; covering letters, 'funnies', best injuries, etc

A photo gallery for readers pics

A 'how to' section covering beginner, intermediate and advanced techniques

There will be product reviews and bike tests (they wont be contrived)

All genres of bike trials will be covered (20”,24”,26”,street and comp)

I'm currently working on some nice long features that will spread over several issues, including a guide to sponsorship and various training pieces...Many more ideas to materialise!

With regards to the other issues raised;

I do believe there is life left in the printed publication, I understand the benefits of pdf publishing and I will look at that route if the later stages of launching this mag prove troublesome for whatever reason.

I may be pushing it by indicating an August issue, fair comment. Let me explain my reasoning though, I've been designing promotional material for print for as long as I've been a pro rider (5 years) I have been reporting on events and products for just as long, so I do have some relevant experience to bring to this venture. Plus I have embarked on much bigger ventures within as short a timescale before.

I've never embarked on any project without a sound business plan which I have spent the last 2 weeks working on full time before starting this topic, I am comfortable with the figures and am not to emotionally involved.

Thank you all, please keep it coming (name suggestions?!?!?)

Ian

[Bearded Midget]

How ever a website style jobber i think would work well.

i would buy the magazine. its just seems nice to have trials in some sort of materialised form rather than reading off the net.

however, the idea of the internet one. usually i wouldnt bother going on a webpage every month to read a internet magazine, and i would probably forget the website name, but, if you amde it so you could sign up, and readers recieved and email every time a new issue was out, then i would read the magazine (this probably only applies for lazy people like myself )

and then gradually once youve got enough money you could turn into an actual paper magazine, after youve got the contacts with certaint trials riders etc around the country, which can give you enough feedback to fill up the magazine monthly.

anyway, good luck with whatever happens, i will certainly read it

edit: the post above makes this magazine sound really interesting, i hope you make the a magazine we can actually buy now lol

Edited June 6, 2008 by Bearded Midget

[Drummond]

You're all in real danger of ending up with a magazine named tuck! Any suggestions?

Ian

[Revolver]

Name it after a proper move, such as surge or gap or sidehop

lol

Surge would be the best one, i think.

BTUK, biketrials UK, that would work.

[Luke Rainbird]

Yeah, because strolling into the newsagents' and asking if they have a copy of "SURGE" magazine isn't in the slightest bit weird...

Also, not everybody calls things the same names (as has been shown on here time and time again), so it needs to be something REALLY generic if you go down that route

[Revolver]

Yeah, because strolling into the newsagents' and asking if they have a copy of "SURGE" magazine isn't in the slightest bit weird...

Also, not everybody calls things the same names (as has been shown on here time and time again), so it needs to be something REALLY generic if you go down that route

Care to come up with something better then?

If the magazine's called tuck, its named after the act of sticking your arse out as far as you can to get up a wall sideways.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Revolver

[Luke Rainbird]

I'll have a think about it, and if I come up with anything decent I'll suggest it.

Until then, I won't.

[joe b]

If the sole intention of this publication is to promote and give publicity to the sport of Biketrials then don't you think that 'posting' the magazines out to the customers is rather restricting that, as the people that will be buying them are the people that already know about and are interested in Biketrials? I believe the sport would gain much more publicity if it were to be sold as magazines such as MBUK are, in shops etc., around the country - this is because more people with little or no knowledge of Biketrials are being exposed to it, thus maximising pubicity...

Just a thought, anyway .

Cheers,

Joe.