Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 And what are the statistics of comparing people who do drink and people who don't use drugs? Of course alcohol will have an increased death rate because more people do it than take drugs... AND not to mention, usually its not the drug or drink that kills someone, its the actions they take when under the influence! People when they're pissed tend to be far less capable of taking care of themselves and far more likely to hurt themselves that anyone I've seen on pills. My friend managed to get from his friend's house in Victoria back down to his place near Brixton when the buses were all f**ked, and I struggle to do that when I'm sober. Have you ever seen anyone who's totally pissed try and take care of themselves? Every weekend at Southbank there are teenagers down there who are totally pissed, just sitting there throwing up over themselves trying to work out how they can use their phone to call their parents so they'll come and pick them up. Also, I've never seen a group of people who are on pills go roaming round looking to cause shit with people, yet I have when they're on alcohol. Even shit like how my sister's ex used to get really aggressive to people in the pub when he drank certain spirits, so she banned him from having them. Look as well at people like George Best - kept on drinking, went through a couple of livers, died. It's not like it's totally safe, is it? Yet people still think of alcohol as being fine. Even if certain drugs were legal, I still doubt you'd see the rate of injuries, criminal damage, RTAs, etc. raise to the same level as alcohol. If you think they WOULD do, how can you justify having alcohol as being legal and them being illegal? If they'd cause the same trouble, and therefore deserve to be banned, why shouldn't alcohol be banned? What I always say is "What would your nana think if you were popping pills?" Impressed doubt it! From my experience at Uni for three years I have seen a fair few people f**k up their lives I doubt your 'nana' would be particularly impressed if she saw you totally bladdered either, but I doubt that'd stop many people here? Equally, the age old problem of getting pissed, sleeping with someone then finding out they're pregnant. Good times Happened to two people I know this year. That's obviously not necessarily 'f**king up their lives', although it is in the sense that they've now got to totally change what they're doing, but it's still as a result of being unable to control themselves. This is an emotional moment for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I seem to remember using the same analogy myself last time we had one of these topics. I was gunned down by about 5 different people* for daring to associate their blatant disregard for the law when it comes to their bike and how drugs aren't all that bad as being almost blasphemous. Maybe the analogy hits too close to home for some people. * Just JT http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....llegal&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I have a broad opinion on drugs. Until I left college I was pretty much t-total, I didn't really smoke or drink much and the only 'drugs' (noun used lightly in this context) I had taken were cannabis - Which I now smoke quite regularly. The problem with drugs, and the taboo surrounding them is that joe publics perception is so far warped with negative propaganda that most people who haven't had any interest or done any personal research into drugs simply regard them as being the indulge of criminals. Drugs are Illegal, therefore, by logic, if you take drugs then you are a criminal. While the propaganda may serve its purpose as a campaign of scaring people into not doing drugs, there is just as much harm in lack of education. This is true with illegal drugs as it is with legal ones (like alcohol, tobbaco, etc). My general opinion on the law surrounding drugs is that they are illegal because the government can't control them, and therefore cannot tax them. Thus they become the goods which criminals trade in. Personally, I think this is a terrible way of dealing with substance control. I cannot imagine a situation better than if the government controlled all substances. In this scenario the power would be taken away from criminals, and quality and fair competition would surely save thousands of lives becuase the product would be unaltered. Unfortunately, with the society we live in, the middle class are far too arrogant to see the benefits of taxing a market worth billions, leaving control outside of the law. I am also a strong believer in the idea that there are two kinds of people. People who will never take drugs, and people who will. The distinction between these two catagories would remain constant if the laws remain, or if drugs were legalized. I think the fact that a drug is illegal isn't a problem at all for someone who is comfortable taking it. On my personal experiences with drugs and those who I know, I strongly believe that most people who are level headed enough to keep a perspective on their lifestyle can quite happily indulge in drugs from time to time without causing themselves any problems at all. The trouble lies with people who are foolish enough to let it become a lifestyle rather than something they use occasionally to enjoy themselves when having time out. The point is to make sure you never let drugs determine your lifestyle, let your lifestyle determine your drug usage. I've tried most drugs at one stage, except for anything hard like heroin or crack, meth, etc. Those are the types of drugs that I'd never touch. On the other hand, dabbling with substances known to be comparatively safer than substances which are legal, is clearly not dangerous, the research says so in black and white. Drugs lend themselves to mind expanding and exciting experiences and most people I know who have dabbled generally remain perfectly level headed, and in some instances find ways of bettering themselves through what they've learned through drug use. I will not argue that it's impossible to f**k up on drugs. People do. But look at the figures in comparison to alcohol, tobbaco, and even prescribed drugs. The figures comparing the harm caused by ecstasy or most other illegal drugs against alcohol are astonishing. It has been admitted that alcohol would not be legal if it were invented today, as a drug its just so embedded into our society (and a healthy taxation) that the government could never criminalize it now. If its ok for people to get drunk, start fights, beat their wives, vandalize public property and generally be complete twats every weekend of their lives under the influence of alcohol, then f**k what the schools and government brainwash you with. What harm is anyone doing sat at home getting monged out with a spliff, or loved up and more emphatic and caring than they'll ever have known of MDMA? I could go on but I wont. My bottom line is that as long as you keep yourself in check and don't let drugs change your lifestyle then you'll be fine! If you've got an addictive personality though I'd probably advise staying away - they can be quite good fun! edit: Those of you who are basing a disgustingly one sided negative opinion on no experience or real knowledge can jog on. Seriously now? edit again: EROWID is a good website for getting proper information on drugs. Enlighten yourselves. last edit: Despite my drug use I lead a healthy, vibrant and diverse life with a range of interests, hobbies, fitness and academic activities. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I think that is pretty much exactly how i currently see the whole drug "situation". Especially the reason for the majority of them being ilegal is because the government would find it hard to produce/tax them. The only thing i think is slightly different is my own personal usage, with myself having never tried anything stronger than the odd bit of weed. I think the viewpoint of a response like that is a tribute to how very few people are that level headed, in that the only ones who seem to write anything worth reading are the ones who are open to different ways of thinking. Where as the narrow minded folk seem to buy in to the media's propaganda and stay firm in their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hI-OOPS-CAPS Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 It's the same as trials - people find riding trials rewarding, but other people see it as a nuisance, a waste of money, a waste of time, a waste of your body (Who here hasn't been injured riding, and when people are talking about 'not knowing the long-term effects' - how good d'you reckon your body's going to feel when you're drawing your pension out? Probably not shit-hot), life threatening, and pretty much everything else people have attributed to drug taking. that is just one terrible comparison, trials can be good for you, exercise point of view, but drugs have no postives about them other than feelin euphoric. i have been shaken by stats by official organisations saying, your 7times more like to have heart trouble with certain drugs, and also mental health will be a problem if your a regular user of some drugs. anyone know of any this happening cus these seem a little far fetched to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 that is just one terrible comparison, trials can be good for you, exercise point of view, but drugs have no postives about them other than feelin euphoric. i have been shaken by stats by official organisations saying, your 7times more like to have heart trouble with certain drugs, and also mental health will be a problem if your a regular user of some drugs. anyone know of any this happening cus these seem a little far fetched to me You don't have a clue. Certain drugs? Some drugs? They all make you feel euphoric? See you later barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I missed him ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah charlie's not too good if you have heart troubles, either are e's in my past experience, ive collapsed once before after having a few but in all fairness id drank a lot too which didnt help. I think its more to do with people with existing heart troubles rather than the drugs bring the problems out themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Irrelevant. The person that makes the powder into the pill in the first place is in control of what goes into it. No its not irrelevant. People who produce them want you to buy more, and sell in bulk. Its more small time people who bother cutting with potentially dangerous stuff, to make a quick profit turn. It takes a lot of effort to make a pill, im no expert though, but would assume on large scale you use machines. And plus pills can be stamped. Reason for not ever doing it again...Far to expensive About the same as a pint of beer.... for a line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) that is just one terrible comparison, trials can be good for you, exercise point of view, but drugs have no postives about them other than feelin euphoric. i have been shaken by stats by official organisations saying, your 7times more like to have heart trouble with certain drugs, and also mental health will be a problem if your a regular user of some drugs. anyone know of any this happening cus these seem a little far fetched to me Remember that the idea of positives is just your construction. Others, like myself find more positives (which I perviously listed) like the development of intellectual understanding from the experiences that arise on the drug experience. Also I sometimes find ecstacy as therapuetic, reminding me of a more positive way in which to view my non-drug existence. And anyway, even if it were true that there was only one benefit from drugs for all people, that doesn't say how much pleasure or how meaningful that is positive is for certain individuals over others. You talk of trials being good for you well my back mostly but other parts of my body are pretty f**ked from riding trials. It's no divine activity. Basically, everyone does the standard thing where they project their own desires onto other people and expect others to work under those same terms. We seem unableto think of others as possessing a separate subjective basis that finds different enjoyment from different things. We want everyone to be just like us. The situation is this sense though is relative, not universal. Edited June 2, 2008 by rowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 that is just one terrible comparison, trials can be good for you, exercise point of view, but drugs have no postives about them other than feelin euphoric. i have been shaken by stats by official organisations saying, your 7times more like to have heart trouble with certain drugs, and also mental health will be a problem if your a regular user of some drugs. anyone know of any this happening cus these seem a little far fetched to me Both my knees are f**ked, my right ankle's probably going to give me a whole world of trouble in later life, my lower legs are largely composed of scar tissue, I have callouses on my hands, etc. - it's not like bike riding is a perfect activity. The key thing here though (And the whole point I was getting at) is that you feel that there are benefits for you doing trials, so you're willing to overlook the fact it's illegal. Other people look at what we do and think we're out causing trouble, vandalising property, wasting our money, wasting our time and so on, and that there are "no postives about [it] other than feelin euphoric" if you land a trick. Note how those arguments have been put across by the "Teacher says drugs are bad" crew repeatedly here. Obviously I don't have a problem with the legality of BMXing and trials, otherwise I wouldn't do it, but it seems funny that people who partake in a sport that resides in a massively grey area are so willing to think of everything else in terms of black and white. Stuff like cocaine increases your heart-rate. If you have known about (or undiagnosed) heart problems, you can get f**ked over by it. Shocker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONGO Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I'm thouroughly enjoying reading lots of silly people who know very little, arguing with others that collectively know quite a lot and are literate enough to get this knowledge across. Silly, versus right. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) About the same as a pint of beer.... for a line But who sells it by the line? Its all pretty expensive stuff; but as said previously, as long as you're a level headed person and have a bit of self-control you'll be fine. Obviously nobody wants to encourage drugs onto other people - in most cases people would say avoid it, but if someone else wants to try it then who the f**k are we to comment on them? Their life, their risk, their money, their problem. Edited June 2, 2008 by anzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryallmaster Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear me, have you read any of this thread at all? Dear me did you READ my last comment... Who feels stupid now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 But who sells it by the line? How much do you spend on a heavy night out drinking? I spend like... 30quid easy, fairly average night, you could get a fair few lines out of that. I don't do it so im not going to pretend to sound like a pro, but all my college friends do it every other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Rowly and a few others are the only ones talking sense in here. In fact, this is just plain annoying now. If you don't REALLY know about drugs and just listen to media hype / "this guy I used to know..." stories then go read up on drugs. People that use them aren't scum bags etc... And to the guy that said his friends ended up being disowned by parents and put in prison etc, your friends must have been twats in the first place because the odd pill doesn't make you turn into a low life criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trial-biker-ryan Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) A very heated topic indeed, Many many many mixed opinions, and veiws... All very usefull and shows just how differant and indiviual we each are, Good to think that this infomation is here, and infact will almost certainly help some of us in one way or another when its comes to "certain decisions" Keep it coming i guess thanks for the help.. Ryan Edited June 2, 2008 by ♠trial-biker-ryan♠™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Publsihed in the Lancet and on tv for horizon (?) it was out of 20, and ecstacy was 17th: Hah, just seen it... those that say "I only do a bit of weed sometimes"... PWNED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear me did you READ my last comment... Who feels stupid now... He did read it. To quote you, "Theres nothing wrong with the old beer!" - everyone had been talking about the negative effects of beer in the pages prior to your post, and how to say 'there's nothing wrong with alcohol' was stupid. As a result, I doubt he'll 'be feeling stupid now'... It'd be interesting to see what would happen if alcohol and cigarettes were just discovered/created now, and they were trying to get them made legal. I can't imagine any way that anyone would ever be able to talk up cigarettes to the extent that they'd be permissable by law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z o o !! Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Natural highs come a whole lot cheaper... And Safer. Never touched or even thought about doing drugs, never tried fags either. dont see the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) I agree with what basically OBM has been saying. I know a lot of people who take class A drugs and to be honest a lot of them Are pricks, but this isn't the drugs, it's just that they're twats who think they will up there gangster street cred'. If anything the drugs make them more friendly. Alcohol on the other hand I've seen some of my closest mates turn into complete wankers when they get pissed. I don't personally tend to drink much, but I do smoke weed quite a lot to be honest. The only difference that I have noticed really is my memory is f**ked. Oh and I've never taking anything harder, saying this I'm not against trying it, just not now. Edit: Forgot to add. After all the smoking I go out, beat up a few 12 year olds, rob some houses and pop along to get my benefits. Edited June 2, 2008 by iJed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boon racoon Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) Everything I wanted to say has been covered by Mark, Ben and James so I won't go any further. I do find it funny that those here who say they've haven't tried drugs, never will and are flat out against them seem to be the most mis-informed and closed minded. Those who have or do take drugs on the other hand appear to be able to see both sides of the arguement and know the risks involved, which is good. It seems the general public base their opinions on what they've been brainwashed into by education and the media, or by a stereotypical image of dirty skag heads who will try and rob your house for a fix. Edited June 2, 2008 by boon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scarlet Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't need to get high, I get high off of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCircus Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't need to get high, I get high off of life. This is just a lie made up by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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