N.Wood Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 A hangover is where the alcohol has poisend the blood which is causing your brain to swell up and push against the side of your skull. If this was the case of extacy then it would be commonly known that extacy causes very bad headaches, which it doesnt... Could you post a source for your theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 A hangover is where the alcohol has poisend the blood which is causing your brain to swell up and push against the side of your skull. If this was the case of extacy then it would be commonly known that extacy causes very bad headaches, which it doesnt... Hangovers are basically dehydration. Alcohol triggers a response that leads to diuresis (pissing, basically), so you excrete more fluid than you're taking on. As far as I know with pills, the risk is of over-hydration, drinking too much. This causes a dilutional hyponatraemia (low salt in your blood) which means that fluid leaves your blood and enters cells. This can lead to swelling of organs (like the brain). So they are slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) See, you're giving away the fact that you're not a real musician/rock star. lol at the 'druggies' comment. Do you actually know any 'druggies'? Of course not, because if you did, you wouldn't be saying this stuff. (P.S. Sorry for the inverted commas but I find 'druggies' a funny word) The music industry is not as it's portrayed in the media. In the 60's, yes. Current music, no. Docherty is a dick, and whether or not he was in the music industry, he'd be doing drugs. He's lead people around him into doing it, saying you won't get hurt. The stupid ones fell in, did it, and felt the consequences after. I've been doing tours since I was 15, from small to big. I've played with varied people on stage, from Cover Bands to Genesis, and believe me, NONE of the boys do drugs now. Maybe back in the 60's/70's, but not now. Not for a good 20 years. I do know druggies. I'm at a music university where they're taking drugs because they're stressed. I accept they are probably arse's anyway, but it's made them so much worse, they're not who they should be. </endrant> Edit : I will also note the dance scene. Yes, lots of the listeners at raves, clubs and "doo's" do drugs, but only a very very small amount of DJ's, Producers, Writers and Engineers will. Edited June 1, 2008 by Hendrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 most of the people I know who drink, don't fight, don't start fights and are just generally sound. Compare the figures of deaths or injuries or damage caused by drink-driving to those caused by driving under the influence of drugs. Compare the figures of people going into hospitals every weekend for stomach pumps and alcohol poisoning to those who've overdosed. Compare the figures of people who have been injured whilst under the influence of alcohol to those under the influence of drugs. Compare the figures of people who've been assaulted by people who were under the influence of alcohol instead of under the influence of drugs. Compare the people who've caused criminal damage whilst under the influence of alcohol to those under the influence of drugs. I'm talking national statistics here, like full-on, overall, nationwide trends, not just 'your mates'. Equally, drugs don't completely change who you are - your personality still influences a lot of it. The people I live with tend to be the sort of fashionable scene dudes who do all their shopping at Topman, skinny jeans, boots, all that shit - they never cause hassle when they're not f**ked, and they don't when they are f**ked. However, I've had some mental skinhead guy (Who was apparently the youngest person ever sent to Belmarsh, according to him) come up to me being all lairy and aggressive-ish who was f**ked on coke and pills, but that was because he was a twat anyway. All I'm getting at is look at the bigger picture... When somebody takes drugs it changes the way they think and the way they act - I've seen someone become reckless and end up harming themselves because they're influenced by the drug they are taking. It just takes one lapse of judgement for something to go wrong and when it does I don't want to be there - that's why I keep my distance and stay out of that part of their lives. I've every right to ensure my own safety, all I was suggesting is that you think ahead a little and be concerned of yours. Read the quote I put below Hendrix's post. I'm more concerned about people f**king themselves up when they're pissed than if they're buzzing on coke. All I'm getting at is that if you're that concerned about the effects of drugs on people, you might want to steer clear of any town or city centre on a weekend, seeing the massive amounts of pissed people out and about are going to be just as susceptible, if not more so, to what you've described than someone smoking a spliff or anything like that. And again, as I've said repeatedly in this thread, I feel way more 'concerned about my safety' if I'm around drunk people than I do people on any type of drugs. I've been sat in the same tent as people snorting Cocaine and I'll say this - they're friends of mine and I know they're not terrible people, they wouldn't be friends otherwise. I was politely offered it and politely refused, that being the end of it. There was no pressure but at the same time I was uneasy because I knew that they had a class A drug in a place where we could easily be found and I couldn't help but think that if they get caught I get f**ked too just for being there. The worry about getting caught in a situation like that is totally different to needing to be worried about people's actions, or indeed my own personal safety or chances of getting caught up in any shit like that if we're in our flat, in our secure block of flats in our secure halls. Equally, if it was assumed that I was on anything, a simple drugs test would be able to quickly knock that one on the head, so I have no worries about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Hangovers are basically dehydration. Alcohol triggers a response that leads to diuresis (pissing, basically), so you excrete more fluid than you're taking on. As far as I know with pills, the risk is of over-hydration, drinking too much. This causes a dilutional hyponatraemia (low salt in your blood) which means that fluid leaves your blood and enters cells. This can lead to swelling of organs (like the brain). So they are slightly different. So what you're saying is, effectively, that if you're going to take pills, you'd better get to work on the vodka to keep your body in the perfect equilibrium, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 So what you're saying is, effectively, that if you're going to take pills, you'd better get to work on the vodka to keep your body in the perfect equilibrium, right? Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 NONE of the boys do drugs now. We've apparently also experienced vastly different sides of the music scene then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Not really, and never to excess, well, not in the last 10 years. I don't like the taste of alcohol and don't like drunk people so tend to not bother with drink. Not against having the odd cider (quite like the taste for some reason) and maybe once a year I might get a bit tipsy but never drunk. I'm the same... Never liked lager (still struggle with it to be honest) but then I found spirits and cocktails! Ok, so I'm not the last of the big drinkers, but I've found what I like - cider included. It tends to be stuff that is either not bitter or (for spirits) too strong. I thought it was just my sweet tooth, until I read about Supertasters... Sound familiar to anyone? E - doesn't make you thirsty in itself, but is prone to make you dance a lot. Dancing = dehydration = make sure you drink, therefore ecstasy = drink plenty. Errr, no. Ecstasy makes it hard for the body to detect when it's dehydrated, and also if it's drunk too much, so people will drink too much and not realise it. Because they've been hit with a single bit of advice (make sure you drink plenty), those who are just standing around drink as much as the dancers - also not good. Each to their own, be careful, know the consequences and do what you think is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) We've apparently also experienced vastly different sides of the music scene then. Name the ones you think do drugs, the 'proper' musicians.. not the wannabes. edit : f-stop. So basically, the "so-called" immense headache you get, is nothing more than not drinking enough water and getting de-hydrated? So if you know to keep drinking water throughout the night of taking the pill, even if you don't feel de-hydrated, you shouldn't have the handover? Edited June 1, 2008 by Hendrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Will you then dazzle me with your first hand knowledge of all the stellar rock legends you're on first name terms with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolfa Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) Youtube Video ->Original Video Edited June 1, 2008 by Jolfa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 I accept drinking isn't that better, but most of the people I know who drink, don't fight, don't start fights and are just generally sound. Where as, the "druggies", usually aren't. But, I haven't been exposed to the drug scene in it's extensive amount yet. I hope not to have to be, as if it is as the guys I know are, then it'd be a bad place to be. Funny, a lot of people I know who take drugs don't fight, don't start fights, and are generally sound. Where as, the "drunk twats at 2am in town", usually aren't. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 to those saying "druggies": You do know that a druggy is someone that injects nasty shit between their toes and can't go ten minutes without being sky high right? Slightly different to those that like a party enhancer on the weekend... Again, I don't do drugs but all the people I know that do aren't scum, druggies, wasters or whatever - in fact most of them have better jobs than me and are probably more intelligent than me. When I was at school I used to think anyone that used drugs was a druggie or a scum bag - in reality people tend to be worse when drunk than on pills / coke. Things like Ketamine, Speed, Heroin and other hardcore stuff I do not condone at all, but I honestly think the criticism Ecstacy gets is uncalled for. Alcohol is nasty, not good for you at all, it's just because it's legal and sold everywhere it's accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Youtube Video ->Original Video Urgh, was only going to be a matter of time before someone brought out *that* Bill Hicks clip. Yes, been done, he wasn't that great, move on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Will you then dazzle me with your first hand knowledge of all the stellar rock legends you're on first name terms with? Mike Rutherford Kenny Jones Neil Primrose Andy Dunlop John Fratelli All of these within the last, say, six months. Thank you TCT. If you want me to, I can go away and think about a few more. I don't want to big myself up, but those boys don't do drugs. And I do understand usually you're a dick first, but it, in my experience, has just made them even more of an idiot, dick, or what ever you want to call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 The people you're listing don't really strike me as the particularly young, up-and-coming, big name band scene. Equally, if you're only meeting them as a young, new-to-the-industry session player, I doubt they're going to necessarily spill their life story to you. No doubt they're all as pure as freshly driven snow, I'm not denying that. EDIT: To be honest, if I was in Travis you'd have a hard time stopping me spending whatever money I had left on the most hardcore, strongest shit I could find... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Stop Junkie Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 edit : f-stop. So basically, the "so-called" immense headache you get, is nothing more than not drinking enough water and getting de-hydrated? So if you know to keep drinking water throughout the night of taking the pill, even if you don't feel de-hydrated, you shouldn't have the handover? The handover (sic) from a pill isn't the same as the hangover from alcohol as far as I'm aware, and I'm not toxicologist. Basically the point I was trying to make was that E affects your ability to gauge your hydration level, and it's over-drinking of water which kills people because they're told that if they're dancing they need to drink plenty to combat dehydration - which is fair advice in anyone's book. The comedown on E is probably more to do with either seretonin depletion or your brain trying to restore it's chemical balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 The music industry is not as it's portrayed in the media. In the 60's, yes. Current music, no. Docherty is a dick, and whether or not he was in the music industry, he'd be doing drugs. He's lead people around him into doing it, saying you won't get hurt. The stupid ones fell in, did it, and felt the consequences after. I've been doing tours since I was 15, from small to big. I've played with varied people on stage, from Cover Bands to Genesis, and believe me, NONE of the boys do drugs now. Maybe back in the 60's/70's, but not now. Not for a good 20 years. I do know druggies. I'm at a music university where they're taking drugs because they're stressed. I accept they are probably arse's anyway, but it's made them so much worse, they're not who they should be. </endrant> Edit : I will also note the dance scene. Yes, lots of the listeners at raves, clubs and "doo's" do drugs, but only a very very small amount of DJ's, Producers, Writers and Engineers will. It's not just Pete that gets ruined, he's just the severe end of the scale mate - the one that goes too far and ends up in rehab. I think you'll find that most people at an A-List celeb party will be doing coke on the sly. Every week there's stories of celebrities going overboard and hitting rehab - they are just the ones that go too far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolfa Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Urgh, was only going to be a matter of time before someone brought out *that* Bill Hicks clip. Yes, been done, he wasn't that great, move on... What can I say, the guy speaks sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 The massive celebrity funded drug rings that are on a national and international scale also suggest that the celebrities we know and love aren't necessarily sipping on green tea at home on the weekend. Just have to look at the recent tragic example of Mark Speight to see that ringing true. Charlie says: chris hated on bill hicks Charlie says: oh no he di'in't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 So what you're saying is, effectively, that if you're going to take pills, you'd better get to work on the vodka to keep your body in the perfect equilibrium, right? Pretty much. Trust me, I'm practically a doctor. Name the ones you think do drugs, the 'proper' musicians.. not the wannabes. Yeah, wannabe musicians really do suck. Especially when they harp on about it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah, wannabe musicians really do suck. Especially when they harp on about it all the time. Oh lawds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 ...oh my. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Pretty much. Trust me, I'm practically a doctor. Hey, did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Got it online, innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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