Re-classification Of Cannabis

[ilikeriding]

Because it's getting easier to get weed an the strength of skunk is getting higher the governments got to be seen to be doing something about it. You can't just go an lock everyone up, you can make the law more stringent though which will hopefully tighten everything up abit more an scare the younger generation of generally getting really hooked on it.

Totally wrong!, the strength of cannabis hasnt changed for thousands of years... its still the same plant. Skunk is just one of a huge number of strains of cannabis plants, its pretty much the same as all the rest, although some types will have slightly more/less THC than others. It seems that the media have focused on skunk for a combination of the wrong reasons, all of them being rumors. The thc content of normal cannabis was assessed at 5% by the goverment..this is totally wrong..it is usually between 10-15%, 5% would be very hard to get high off. If they base their studies on shitty contaminated weed its not exactly valid.

The same goes with cannabis in general I think, I've got no idea how Gordon Brown could be allowed to totally defy the facts (being that cannabis isn't actually that harmful) which the misuse of drugs council provided. The only argument for its reclassification was that it can be a step which leads to hard drugs, which is plain shit.

In holland where it is near enough legal, there is a lesser percentage of people that smoke it when compared with Great Britain where it is illegal, so giving it an even more prolific status isnt going to decrease its use. Positive reiforcement is a far more effective way of making people learn things than through punishment. Cannabis has been found only to be mentally harmful in people that have schitzophrenia, its contaminated cannabis is the problem really, with dealers/suppliers filling the bud with crap WILL make people ill

I think the 5 million cannabis users in Britain should have a right to do as they please, I don't see any decent reasons for it not to be legal. I smoke a fair bit and I don't feel that its affected me negativley.. just makes your day slightly better. Prisons don't need overcrowding even more with people that have the odd spliff next to rapists and such, the effects of drinking have gotta be worse than smoking.

fact based rant over

Edited May 10, 2008 by jebend

[Robwalker]

If you in the drugs industry, you know to expect this any way. It's simple, you f**k with dealers, They WILL do serious damage to you. To be honest, if you end up getting in debt with anyone for drugs, it always turns out nasty, seen it so many times. layercake, nil by mouth, rise of the footsoldier.

[Gavyn.]

Totally wrong!, the strength of cannabis hasnt changed for thousands of years... its still the same plant. Skunk is just one of a huge number of strains of cannabis plants, its pretty much the same as all the rest, although some types will have slightly more/less THC than others. It seems that the media have focused on skunk for a combination of the wrong reasons, all of them being rumors. The thc content of normal cannabis was assessed at 5% by the goverment..this is totally wrong..it is usually between 10-15%, 5% would be very hard to get high off. If they base their studies on shitty contaminated weed its not exactly valid.

The same goes with cannabis in general I think, I've got no idea how Gordon Brown could be allowed to totally defy the facts (being that cannabis isn't actually that harmful) which the misuse of drugs council provided. The only argument for its reclassification was that it can be a step which leads to hard drugs, which is plain shit.

In holland where it is near enough legal, there is a lesser percentage of people that smoke it when compared with Great Britain where it is illegal, so giving it an even more prolific status isnt going to decrease its use. Positive reiforcement is a far more effective way of making people learn things than through punishment. Cannabis has been found only to be mentally harmful in people that have schitzophrenia, its contaminated cannabis is the problem really, with dealers/suppliers filling the bud with crap WILL make people ill

I think the 5 million cannabis users in Britain should have a right to do as they please, I don't see any decent reasons for it not to be legal. I smoke a fair bit and I don't feel that its affected me negativley.. just makes your day slightly better. Prisons don't need overcrowding even more with people that have the odd spliff next to rapists and such, the effects of drinking have gotta be worse than smoking.

fact based rant over

over the last however many years since cannabis was recognized as a 'fun party drug', it's been made stronger by selection. as the years go on the plant has been modified because the people who grow it have been selecting the stronger plants and using their seeds, this results in all the 'farmed' cannabis getting stronger and stronger.

the '2' main active chemicals thc and (can't really remeber the name of the other one, could be cbd?). basically the thc is the 'damaging' bit and the other one is the bit that cancels out the bad bit after a while.. in the 60's they were 50/50 in 2002 they were 80/20. meaning although drug still isn't going to directly kill you. it's much more likely to cause mental health problems now than it was 40-50 years ago.

there are proven scientific studies showing that cannabis can cause mental health problems, there aren't any that prove otherwise, this is why the synthetic version was invented.

just because there have been no direct deaths by cannabis doesn't mean it won't kill you, yes you won't overdose. but if you increase the risk of mental health problems then technically you increase the risk of suicide, and i'm sure there have been plenty of regular smokers who have decided there life wasn't worth living, I actually know of one in my town.

[TheCircus]

i'm sure there have been plenty of regular smokers who have decided there life wasn't worth living, I actually know of one in my town.

I think this is a pretty imbalanced point to make. while there are people affected by it and it can be seen as playing a large part in their suicide - it's is only one of many factors that would lead up to having mental problems to the point of suicide. Furthermore, I'm quite sure that the percentage of people who commit suicide as a direct result of smoking cannabis is probably pretty tiny, so to try to argue that 'plenty of regular smokers who have decided there life wasn't worth living' is mostly illogical.

[ilikeriding]

over the last however many years since cannabis was recognized as a 'fun party drug', it's been made stronger by selection. as the years go on the plant has been modified because the people who grow it have been selecting the stronger plants and using their seeds, this results in all the 'farmed' cannabis getting stronger and stronger.

the '2' main active chemicals thc and (can't really remeber the name of the other one, could be cbd?). basically the thc is the 'damaging' bit and the other one is the bit that cancels out the bad bit after a while.. in the 60's they were 50/50 in 2002 they were 80/20. meaning although drug still isn't going to directly kill you. it's much more likely to cause mental health problems now than it was 40-50 years ago.

there are proven scientific studies showing that cannabis can cause mental health problems, there aren't any that prove otherwise, this is why the synthetic version was invented.

just because there have been no direct deaths by cannabis doesn't mean it won't kill you, yes you won't overdose. but if you increase the risk of mental health problems then technically you increase the risk of suicide, and i'm sure there have been plenty of regular smokers who have decided there life wasn't worth living, I actually know of one in my town.

cannabis picked naturally is equally as potent stuff on the streets atm

[Fish-Finger-er]

Still though, an ounce is baaaaare, the only people ive seen round here carrying bits that big are asains who would firebob youre house and kill your family if you even thought about robbin them.

meh round here, well in the circles of friends i kept through last summer, an ounce wasnt really that much. you could pick it up for £480, which sounds like a lot, but when you consider, £45-£50 a gram was the going rate for it (well where we spend a lot of time in wales, the going rate is £40 for a shitty gram, and £60 for proper good stuff, this was proper good stuff, but prices are a bit lower round here. the potential to stick a quarter up your nose, and still see a £450 return on your money, was a hell of a good idea to people who dont really see prison as all that bad. and thats before we start talking about shady bagging, which nearly everyone gets on a "gram"

ive seen showboxes with £50k in £50 notes stashed under peoples seats in their cars. which may seem irrelevant, but its not. the only thing class B will really effect is the dealers, because right now, i know i could get caught with a 9 bar of rocky, and chances are id get around a £500 fine, bit of community service or something, and get away with it, however make it a class B, and id probably be looking at a short stretch inside. which is where it puts the casual dealer off. and stopping dealing is surely the best way to stop drug use, just cut off the supply.

thing is penalties for drug dealing/taking need to be so much worse before any of it takes effect.

i know a lad, whod got previous for theft, assault, and a couple of driving related offences(no insurance, no license etc) who was caught with 6 ounces of resin in his car, and a further few £10+ £20 bags on him. all bagged up ready to go. got a 2 year supervision order, a £280 fine, and like a weeks worth of community service, which he managed to get out of somehow. Now, not being funny, but thats like the profit of what he was caught with, in a fine, so for every time he gets away with each 9 bar he sells, he can afford to get caught to pay the fine.doesnt seem like too bad a deal.

and the lad i know from further up, with serious cash (£50k stashed under the seats of his motor, probably got a load stashed somewhere else) as he said to me, he never has more than an ounce at a time, unless hes already got a deal lined up, (i.e hes buying a quarter bar, and selling an ounce straight on to someone at profit, then keeping his 1 and a quarter ounces for his own sales) he doesnt bag it up till he has too, and doesnt walk round with any more than a couple of bags at a time.

now unless he gets caught at the very start of an ounce, he aint going to have much more than 15g on him at a time. considering i know people whove done 5g of decent coke in 24 hour session before. he said its not unthinkable that he can say hes a heavy coke user, and goes through about 3g a night, and that was just a weeks supply. admit possesion before it reaches court, and agee to sign up for rehab/councelling sessions. and hell probably get away with a suspended sentence, or a very very short stint, back out on tag after a matter of months.

now to a bloke wholl never amount to much more than a labourer or shelf stacker, your saying, you can buy what you want, and have possibly a 6 figure sum stashed away somewhere. live the rockstar/gangster life style, have everyone know who you are, and have whatever sexy little 19 year old coke whore he wants in his bed every weekend because she sees the money and the drugs. for the possibilty of a 6 month stretch in somewhere where hell be well fed, looked after, not have to worry about bills, or rent etc. it just makes sense.

change it to like thailand or the like, and boom, im sure the kids selling their homegrown, and the ghetto chavs in their beemers selling shady coke, would think twice.

[Simpson]

CBA to read the whole thread but a few valid points

- Cannabis doesn't massivly impact crime - unlike speed, MDMA, E or coke, it doesnt put you up, it brings you down and your main focus is obtaining food and changing between mighty boosh DVD's

- Re-classification is a waste of f**king time, i know very few people who have never done it, know a lot of people who shott it and a few dealers... none of them have ever been touched (during the periods of C & B classification) someone got some community service and someone who got there room searched on suspission of dealing

- Keep changing is a waste of time and gives confussing sigals to individuals, and just makes a joke of it scientists VS politions is pointless, politicians do things to please people and give an image, scientists will give raw facts

- What is even classed as cannabis anymore? Chemical scientists have used forms of selective breeding to make normal weed with higher THC in them, but then skunk braches of where chemical enhansment has been used, candy, lemmon, AK, Silver to name a few of the "brand" weeds we have locally

- Weed VS alcahol, im sure more crime happens to drunk people, ever seen stoned people try to fight? or even bother getting up?

Personally it doesn't bother me. If i really want to do it then i can get it delivered within the day... and all these laws dont change the fact that people will do it, eg at a party last week there was; charlie, MDMA, speed, E, weed.... the higher the class the better for some people

since cannabis was recognized as a 'fun party drug', it's been made stronger by selection.

Wouldnt call cannabis a party drug... pretty impossible to do anything extranious, let alone hold a reasonable convosation

[cadbury's cream egg]

prices are going up alot at the moment because now the its going to be class b , they think canabis is worth more ,.and its really hard to find actual weed and skunk . its just solid goin around

well thats whats in my area anyway

leon

[Simpson]

prices are going up alot at the moment because now the its going to be class b , they think canabis is worth more ,.and its really hard to find actual weed and skunk . its just solid goin around

Peice of piss to get hold of here, score for normal weed, score 5 for a big henry of skunk

[Caleb]

score 5? = £25?

[boon racoon]

Selling N20 is where the real money is! And far less risk.

[Sneakers O'Toole]

Cracking post by Trials_Punk, a good read.

Luckily when i was a heavy smoker it was one of my mates dad that was growing so i always had access to stuff straight from him. I was able to pick what kinda strain/strength i wanted and it was all at mates rates. He even gave the option of buying a plant and he would sell a percentage of the harvest then you could do a deal on the split of the profits.

[Thurston]

Everyone has a freind that has smoked for ages and is "fine"

Get a fooking life guys!

Your bessie "freind"that you care for dearly has probably got severley reduced lung capicity and has been smoking god knows what

including a teensie bit of actual weed.

You havnt got a fooking clue what your smoking , fact.

Unless you grow it or know someone that is growing it and you can get some before its treated with shit

Also skunk is not getting stronger, its getting weaker because theres more money to be made for all the dealers if its treated and f**ked with than if its real pure skunk. FACT

[Fish-Finger-er]

Unless you grow it or know someone that is growing it and you can get some before its treated with shit

Also skunk is not getting stronger, its getting weaker because theres more money to be made for all the dealers if its treated and f**ked with than if its real pure skunk. FACT

erm, what do you refer to as treated with sh*t, any half serious grower, will use a hydroponics rig, and use various plant foods and chemicals to speed up the growth of the plant. while this may sometimes reduce the concentration of the weed, and likewise will cut it with other products in some instance( a big 100g bag of herbal green that doesnt actually do anything is £4 or so adding a smidgen of it in to a £20 bag or the like, no ones going to realise, and its going to mean they get 2 or 3 more £10 or £20 bags out of each bar)

but its not exactly a new thing, its been going on for years. whether its now just that my friends are more affluent, but the weed they smoke now, seems to be a lot more potent than what they smoked when we where in college together.

[boon racoon]

but its not exactly a new thing, its been going on for years. whether its now just that my friends are more affluent, but the weed they smoke now, seems to be a lot more potent than what they smoked when we where in college together.

Surely a lot of it has to do with the time you've been doing it as well? It just takes time to source out the best / strongest gear, who's selling it and get yourself into a situation where you know that dealer, can pick up regularly and aren't going to be ripped off or sold something dodgy?

The longer you go on, the risks are more reduced I reckon. In every way. Once you know what works for you and what doesn't, what's clean and what isn't, you're sorted. It's the initial trial and error of stuff that might land you in hospital after taking some dodgy shit.

Edited May 11, 2008 by boon

[Fish-Finger-er]

Surely a lot of it has to do with the time you've been doing it as well?

possibly, but i dont do it, i take into account what your saying about how dealers change, but some of the guys, theyve been buyin off since we where 16/17, granted, the money changing hands has got greater, but theyre still buying weed off the same people just in quarters and halfs, rather than 8th's. so yea, maybe his suppliers have got better, but its now mates littler brothers are on weed at 16, which is a stronger than the weed we used to smoke at 16.

[boon racoon]

possibly, but i dont do it, i take into account what your saying about how dealers change, but some of the guys, theyve been buyin off since we where 16/17, granted, the money changing hands has got greater, but theyre still buying weed off the same people just in quarters and halfs, rather than 8th's. so yea, maybe his suppliers have got better, but its now mates littler brothers are on weed at 16, which is a stronger than the weed we used to smoke at 16.

Fair enough man I don't really know anything about Weed. I hate it

[dan_addison]

Weed really isnt all its craked up to be. Full of plastic and god knows what else. Just wrecks peoples lifes. cant stand the shit. Saying that i did uset to toke wuite alot but then one day when i was stoned reliased the downs arnt worth the high. So i stopped smoking all together

[Simpson]

Full of plastic and god knows what else.

But is it? This is where people get confussed with drugs and where the whole "legallising" it starts, some drugs can be dangerous because of the ammount of hands it pass's through, but surley this is more appliciable to china white? No money in selling it, its the cutting that makes your money. But with weed if you buy am ounce and sell half you make your money back. Depends on the chain and if you buy it off shotters or dealers, most occasional smokers buy of shotters, but if you do it reguallarly and seem trustworthy enough you can get up the chain

EDIT i dont even smoke the shit so im off now. Why anyone would want to smoke weed and leave the house is beyond me, few mates and a Peep show box set when someones got a free house then yea game on

Edited May 11, 2008 by Simpsonman =)

[boon racoon]

Exactly. It's not really in most dealer's interests to f**k you over by filling stuff with crap otherwise you won't buy again and you'll tell everyone else you know not to as well. I think most people have a stereotypical image of dealers being the scum of the earth who're out to rob your money and try and kill you. Obviously some are, but not most.

The higher up you get obviously the better yeah. But stuff sold on weights is usually sold as "1g" (bought at 1g price from higher up) when in reality you're getting 0.7g. And they buy in a lot larger quantities so get cheaper prices.

That's how most dealers make their money, not by filling stuff with crap.

Edited May 11, 2008 by boon

[Robwalker]

there are proven scientific studies showing that cannabis can cause mental health problems, there aren't any that prove otherwise, this is why the synthetic version was invented.

Prove it, i tried finding some for some psychology coursework, and failed. The closest i found is that cannabis can trigger mental illnisses such as scizophrenia if there is a history of it in the family. but still the chances in that are 1 in 4000. Cannabis does not cause mental probelams.

[ilikeriding]

Weed really isnt all its craked up to be. Full of plastic and god knows what else. Just wrecks peoples lifes. cant stand the shit. Saying that i did uset to toke wuite alot but then one day when i was stoned reliased the downs arnt worth the high. So i stopped smoking all together

Its very easy to tell if weed is contaminated if youve actually seen good weed

[Thurston]

Its very easy to tell if weed is contaminated if youve actually seen good weed

which i have, ive seen weed smoked straight from the plant, nothing done to it

compared to the normal weed thats about, the normal stuff people get a hold off is shit

[Tomm]

Prove it, i tried finding some for some psychology coursework, and failed.

You obviously didn't look very hard. Never mind.

The problem is that smoking cannabis is correlated with psychosis (I.e. Schizophrenia). This is not in doubt - People that smoke cannabis are more likely to have mental health problems with psychosis - twice as likely in fact. BUT (and it's a big but), this does not necessarily mean that the cannabis is the cause. Perhaps people with a tendency towards mental health problems have a slightly different personality to others, and this personality makes them want to smoke. Or perhaps smoking is a way of coping with the disease in the early stages. THIS PAPER in the BMJ says that there is a causative relationship (I.e. smoking cannabis CAUSES psychosis).

In addition it's fairly well-established that smoking makes psychotic symptoms worse for those who have the disease. Which is obviously different from saying smoking is the cause of the symptoms in the first place, but it's clearly still an important thing to think about. Also don't forget the damage it does to your lungs and whatever else though.

Just search for cannabis and psychosis in google scholar or whatever. There's hundreds of articles.

I know this has been a bit of a rant, but the truth is that I personally don't really care and if I had to give my opinion, I don't think it should be illegal. But I do have to laugh when all the stoners spout a load of shit about how it's not even slightly harmful, they're just wrong.

[Fish-Finger-er]

You obviously didn't look very hard. Never mind.

The problem is that smoking cannabis is correlated with psychosis (I.e. Schizophrenia). This is not in doubt - People that smoke cannabis are more likely to have mental health problems with psychosis - twice as likely in fact. BUT (and it's a big but), this does not necessarily mean that the cannabis is the cause. Perhaps people with a tendency towards mental health problems have a slightly different personality to others, and this personality makes them want to smoke. Or perhaps smoking is a way of coping with the disease in the early stages. THIS PAPER in the BMJ says that there is a causative relationship (I.e. smoking cannabis CAUSES psychosis).

In addition it's fairly well-established that smoking makes psychotic symptoms worse for those who have the disease. Which is obviously different from saying smoking is the cause of the symptoms in the first place, but it's clearly still an important thing to think about. Also don't forget the damage it does to your lungs and whatever else though.

Just search for cannabis and psychosis in google scholar or whatever. There's hundreds of articles.

I know this has been a bit of a rant, but the truth is that I personally don't really care and if I had to give my opinion, I don't think it should be illegal. But I do have to laugh when all the stoners spout a load of shit about how it's not even slightly harmful, they're just wrong.

the point is,to cut crime rates, then everything thats illegal should be made legal, and a lot of legal stuff should be outlawed. and the government would make millions in taxes and wed all get kosher gear, but then a black market would occur in the now outlawed stuff. and middle aged broad sheet readers would be up in arms about legalizing drugs, while they sit there smoking a marlboro light outside some posh coffee shop.

im sure weed is more common a part of recreational past time in this country than religion, but im sure religion is the catalyst for more deaths than cannabis is(speaking modern day terrorism wise etc)

likewise alcohol related deaths vs ectasy related deaths.