Onza.com

[flat tyre]

All I'm gonna say is ditch flash.

I've been watching all the NEGATIVE comments about the new onza site and have been amazed at the dirt people have been slinging.

Don't you guys have jobs?

JonMack, this isn't just about you, but you've been LOUD in this debate

I have to say ... I had a look at your websites... http://jonmack.co.uk/

and yes, technically concise. . .

But my God I spent nearly 3 weeks in a coma because I've never looked at something so DULL

in my life... Minimal? Clean?

It looks like the Feng Shui consultant has come and cleaned you out.

You have been so loud and negative about Flash and Design and yet

http://www.stoneandbrick.co.uk/

is one of yours... the file size on the images are HUGE... one word OPTIMISATION

So you made a site about bricks. And thats as exciting as you get.

...mate. come on.

what about http://jonmack.co.uk/trials-uk-apparel/

Design? what did you use? Fashion Wheel

see:http://www.doyouremember.co.uk/assets/raw-1210264963.jpg

(if you dont get it.)

5 min job each one.

You sound like a typical CODER not a DESIGNER

What exactly are your motives? Pitching for work?

Haven't got much on? Portfolio looking empty?

Are you a student and had NO REAL industry experience?

Perhaps you (all) should get some insider knowledge before you decide your "expert opinions" count towards something other than

childish ranks. I quote "looks shitty"... well you're no Shakespeare are you?

My Apologies go to those who have produced some valid, fair, precise comments.

It looks like the good advice has been taken.

I'm guessing the reality of the situation at Onza is there has to be a restriction on the amount of money spent on a site.

remember the "recession" ?

Onza are probably mad busy (hence the time its taken to produce this) cos its a family business.

Some people may not have a couple of grand laying around to throw at a fully functional Pro site.. over investment can FK you right up!

...Hence it plodding along into existence, rather than bursting onto your screens.

The forum is being used as a testzone.

If a big company was making it it would be passed around a number of designers and developers who would point out issues like "It looks shitty"

and would correct before it went public.

My main point is quite simple...

Onza... 10/10 for improvement

get it finished and well done for avoiding all the negative, cynical SAD people who have made this thread look so dire.

Fortunately this is thread is not a true reflection on Onza who are nice guys

Spre

[JonMack]

I've been watching all the NEGATIVE comments about the new onza site and have been amazed at the dirt people have been slinging.

Don't you guys have jobs?

JonMack, this isn't just about you, but you've been LOUD in this debate

I have to say ... I had a look at your websites... http://jonmack.co.uk/

and yes, technically concise. . .

But my God I spent nearly 3 weeks in a coma because I've never looked at something so DULL

in my life... Minimal? Clean?

It looks like the Feng Shui consultant has come and cleaned you out.

Thanks, I'm actually half way through a re-design but a client is taking priority at the moment, he actually complimented me on the minimalist aspect of my site.

You have been so loud and negative about Flash and Design and yet

http://www.stoneandbrick.co.uk/

is one of yours... the file size on the images are HUGE... one word OPTIMISATION

So you made a site about bricks. And thats as exciting as you get.

...mate. come on.

I didn't design the layout of that site, I just worked from the proof and coded it so it matched the layout that I got sent over. My ex-housemate Ben (http://bendidit.co.uk) did the flash banner, so maybe you should take it up with him?

I dislike flash when it's used for whole sites because search engines are only just starting to be able to index the content, so it makes SEO very hard.

What's wrong with doing a site about bricks? You're telling me I should turn down jobs and experience because the subject is boring?

what about http://jonmack.co.uk/trials-uk-apparel/

Design? what did you use? Fashion Wheel

see:http://www.doyouremember.co.uk/assets/raw-1210264963.jpg

(if you dont get it.)

5 min job each one.

Yeah they were mock ups for stickers. I'm not going to go into professional relationships on a public forum but the Trials-UK work was actually very demanding. Yeah they didn't take me long to mock up but as I said, I'm not going to go into reasons why.

You sound like a typical CODER not a DESIGNER

That's why I specialise in coding, even though I've just finished my degree in Graphic Design.

What exactly are your motives? Pitching for work?

Haven't got much on? Portfolio looking empty?

Are you a student and had NO REAL industry experience?

Perhaps you (all) should get some insider knowledge before you decide your "expert opinions" count towards something other than

childish ranks. I quote "looks shitty"... well you're no Shakespeare are you?

My motives? To be honest at the moment I'm just bumbling along hoping for the best, I've only just finished uni and I'm not really going all out pitching shit to people to get jobs, as I have enough on at the moment.

I've got plenty on to be honest, reason my portfolio might look a little empty is because I've been waiting around for people to pay me and for the project to be complete before I put their work up, something that SQegg didn't seem to honour. So currently I've got one project waiting to go up there, and I'm working on another 3 which I will put up when they're finished. Currently I'm working for a company in New York on a website which may well turn into a full time position, and that's my first real step to industry experience. I dunno if you went to University of Newport and did Graphic Design but if you did then feel free to comment on how f**king godawful the lecturers were when it came to actually helping us with anything. Plus the course we did was just Graphic Design, we learnt nothing about the business aspect of pitching for jobs, finding work, or anything along those lines, so this whole freelance world is pretty new to me. I'm sorry if I don't reach your high standards.

You're telling me that you actually think this site http://www.e-calibre.co.uk/onza/onza001.swf is a respectable front for a company? As Tom said, it's the kind of thing which would be seen as trendy 7-8 years ago, which isn't really very good for a site which is due to be launched this year. I never said I was an expert, I just thought that what I said may have actually helped Onza out, yeah I did it in an aggressive manner, but they took the criticism on board and have worked towards something new.

[boon racoon]

I'm guessing the reality of the situation at Onza is there has to be a restriction on the amount of money spent on a site.

remember the "recession" ?

Onza are probably mad busy (hence the time its taken to produce this) cos its a family business.

Some people may not have a couple of grand laying around to throw at a fully functional Pro site.. over investment can FK you right up!

A family business? Don't make me laugh. Onza is a brand which sells bikes all over the world.

It's not over investment, it's investment (or should be) in a quality product which will more than pay for itself in the long run and represent the brand as well as it possibly can.

Onza... 10/10 for improvement

Improvement? Average isn't good enough, or shouldn't be.

Otherwise, a year (or 5 if you remember the old website) down the line when the website needs updating and looks dated, you'll have to invest MORE money and MORE time than if you just addressed the real problem in the first place.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

If a big company was making it it would be passed around a number of designers and developers who would point out issues like "It looks shitty"

and would correct before it went public.

Case in point, the Onza banner which still has a typo in it.

Also, crawling into the warm comforts of Jon's anus for a minute, where's your site?

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

A family business? Don't make me laugh. Onza is a brand which sells bikes all over the world.

I'm glad to see that Boon recognizes the fact that we sell bikes all over the world. However, the business couldn't get much more family than this. Check the link to see our full staff complement.

http://www.onza.com/v2/about2.html

Also on a personal note, I would like to see constructive criticism and debate, but don't let us get too personal. Trials bike products are not Play Stations and do not generate Play Station profits, so Joe is doing a good job in trying to regenerate our Website on the extremely tight budget which I have given him for it. So by all means advise and suggest but can we do it without the abrasiveness and hostility, which so often seems to characterize debates on this forum.

[Abdab]

Great website Joe/Mike.

Nice and easy to use yet looks good and professional at same time.

Andrei's picture on main page is fine, nothing needs to be changed there in my opinion.

Good job

Edited August 8, 2008 by Abdab

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Andrei's picture on main page is fine, nothing needs to be changed there in my opinion.

Press F5 on the home page .

[Abdab]

Press F5 on the home page .

Thats ace. Really good idea. Pics look cool

Really love the new designs. Limey and Ice :$

[JD™]

I've got to say that low budgets or no low budgets, that site is unacceptable as the home of one of the best known brands within a given sector.

Assuming that pay is related to time on this project, a whole lot of time has been wasted in flash with solutions that are bulkier and harder to implement than the methods which could and should have been used. And that's just scratching the surface on the coding side of things, don't get me started on the way it looks!

Onza were, to me (and this reference is going back a good 5 years or so), always the poor benefit claiming foster child of the trials world but it seems that during that time you have evolved into a major player - especially being as you've kept the costs down. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't want to show that in the one place that new people will check you out first? The amount of time spent on that design (and we're talking just the art and layout here) is the same amount of time that could have been spent on something up to date and fresh. It's awful, I'm sorry but it is.

The real kick in the teeth (or it would be to me if I was you) is that if this guy had built the pages in CSS and PHP you could change the layout and design with bugger all extra time compared to the amount of time it would take to redesign that monstrocity.

Hell, I'm not going to visit it but I wouldn't have anyway. I just feel the opinion needed to be given again.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Pocket Rocket

[Abdab]

Everybody's got their opinions and your entitled to one.

Constructive criticism is what they asked for, ways which they could improve it for the people who will be going on the website.

I'm not having a go Just saying you could have been more positive with your opinion because that's whats going to make the people at Onza more determined to get this website the way people want it.

Personally I think the site works and is good. Like Mike said its not a play station website so it doesn't have to be outstanding, especially with a tight budget Joe has got to work on?Right?

Got to shoot to work, catch up soon...

Edited August 8, 2008 by Abdab

[JD™]

agree with that, but if the budget is as tight as Mike says it is, then it's too late for a complete re-design. If he was serious about the views of TF then he'd have shown us the first step of any design process worth it's salt and given some photoshop comps. These can be made up with very little strain on resources and will give potential users an idea of many different designs at the same time. Then opinions from people could be taken into account before the real time was spent on designing the final art, animation and building a working site.

Mike, I don't know how you feel about the site so far - for all I know you agree with everything brought up by me, jon and others - but I'm sure the budget is already too far commited for a full redesign right? But feel free to take the criticism on board for next time, as I feel that you have left it far too late in the process to be showing a site like this. Then again, with the amount of time that the spelling mistake has been in that ad, you might have been designing it since 1997...

[Joe@Onza]

For the 5th time. I saw that spelling mistake about 30 seconds after I sent the ad to Tom. Then I sent a revised one. I've asked for it to be change. What do you want me to do? I made a human error. But that must mean the whole company needs to be slated. Call me a thick twat for doing it, Don't take the piss out of Onza.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Joe@Onza

[JD™]

For the 5th time. I saw that spelling mistake about 30 seconds after I sent the ad to Tom. Then I sent a revised one. I've asked for it to be change. What do you want me to do? I made a human error. But that must mean the whole company needs to be slated. Call me a thick twat for doing it, Don't take the piss out of Onza.

If you look over my posts, you'll see that I've not slated Onza in it's present form at any point. I said that 5 years ago I thought you were shit, but it seems you're not now. I'm not in a place to judge as I haven't got any onza kit and ride with anyone who does. I also haven't seen the other 4 times where you've defended your human error, and now that i've had that explained then I take my very passing comment (and the lease important of the whole post) back. It seems odd to me that you've taken offence to that point and yet completely ignored the valid design and coding points made in my previous posts. That shows arrogance and ignorance to me, but feel free to ignore that one too.

[Joe@Onza]

Dude, I did not ignore you. I apologies for my out burst. Its just annoying being reminded all the time.

[totaltrials]

The links look better in red than yellow, and I see you've removed the background image from behind the links, looks much better.

Have you tried removing the image behind the bike descriptions? Maybe make it like the other pages with just a border. The background image just looks very odd.

Do you have any other plans for the design your going to do/change?

[JD™]

Dude, I did not ignore you. I apologies for my out burst. Its just annoying being reminded all the time.

No worries, good luck.

[flat tyre]

Everybody's got their opinions and your entitled to one.

Constructive criticism is what they asked for, ways which they could improve it for the people who will be going on the website.

I'm not having a go Just saying you could have been more positive with your opinion because that's whats going to make the people at Onza more determined to get this website the way people want it.

Personally I think the site works and is good. Like Mike said its not a play station website so it doesn't have to be outstanding, especially with a tight budget Joe has got to work on?Right?

Got to shoot to work, catch up soon...

Amen to that brother

The links look better in red than yellow, and I see you've removed the background image from behind the links, looks much better.

Have you tried removing the image behind the bike descriptions? Maybe make it like the other pages with just a border. The background image just looks very odd.

Do you have any other plans for the design your going to do/change?

I think you're the dude who's the criticisms were mature and constructive.

...therefore respected.

...therefore listened to.

...I think Onza should say thanks.

[Maximus]

Hi joe,

i dont like Dr drie's name image, looks way not cool....!

5 five mins on photoshop gets me, that just one style i know its a bit formal sorry.

just thought id rather show and tell than bash, this way it may become more beneficial.

**idea** What about more forum imput, ie got ideas dont just shout, post em up.

max

[flat tyre]

**idea** What about more forum imput, ie got ideas dont just shout, post em up.

max

hehe, someone's looking for some work Joe.. good effort.

[Maximus]

hehe, someone's looking for some work Joe.. good effort.

lol

[flat tyre]

**idea** What about more forum imput, ie got ideas dont just shout, post em up.

max

you might be on to something there Maximus ... hmmm

[Dan6061]

You'll never be able to please everyone with a website. Even on here about this site, i've seen a few people complaining about the colour scheme.

I'd think about the main audience. To me, Onza seem to aim a beginner riders, which are usually fairly young. Why not have a section for that, with the new bikes etc, with all the flash and fancy bits so it's more appealing.

Then for the Pro series stuff, forget about all the flash, etc, and just focus on information. Most of us on here now know what we're on about when it comes to our bikes, and you obviously know you're stuff too. So show it, give us details on the frames, geometries, etc. I can't see beginner riders looking at the Pro series just yet, so the details don't have to be brief.

Obviously keep news, team riders etc. We like to know what's going on!

That's all I can think of for now...

[flat tyre]

Onza seem to aim a beginner riders, which are usually fairly young. Why not have a section for that, with the new bikes etc, with all the flash and fancy bits so it's more appealing.

Then for the Pro series stuff, forget about all the flash, etc, and just focus on information.

Dan's comments are exactly the reason why this thread was started.

...Positive comments without EGO, JEALOUSY and CYNICISM.

Nice one Dan, you're a Geeeeza!

[Abdab]

To me, Onza seem to aim a beginner riders, which are usually fairly young.

True. But not. They appeal to every type of rider weather your a beginner rider or a top level competitive rider.

Eg, they have the Onza Tee Vee's etc for the more un-experienced riders. And then they have the Onza T pro's, T mag's for the intermediate riders. Then the new pro level frames like the Limeys, Ice, Skull etc...

The website offers pictures, descriptions of products and bikes and information on the history. I think this is all that's need basically. Just because a rider is a beginner they don't need all the website to be flash.

I don't want to get into this anymore because I think the websites good and everything a rider needs to know is practically on the website, and that's good enough for me.

But peoples constructive criticism is always good. Going to help Onza for future references isn't it so, cool

Abdab

[MadManMike]

'Sparetyre':

Comparing JonMack.co.uk to Onza.com is slightly different don't you think?

That's like comparing a BMW to an F1 car. They both do totally different things!