Comp Format Discussion

[walker]

I do agree with what fred is saying, being a 20" comp rider myself it seems only fair that the classes compare abilities on different wheel sizes, but i can see that the majority will not mind the new rule as there seems to be more 26" riders around these days in the higher ranks. Having said that, it seems that a lot of the 20" riders in the higher classes travel to events with parents who mind for them. I can see it being them that make the fuss about the rule as they just want their son/daughter to be more successful.

In the eyes of joe public, why should there be two classes, having one makes it better to watch and understand and if people think that 20" is a disadvantage (which is debatable anyway, im sure if Ben Savage was back on a mod then we may be thinking differently) then why dont they just ride 26" instead?

Nowadays when i go out riding it is quite often that im the only mod rider, it used to be the other way round but then 26" frames have improved so much in the last 5 years, times change...

Andrew

[Revolver]

It does, but please look into the rules before commenting.

after reading the wiki about the rules, it still says there are separate classes.

[JIX]

At club trials 20 and 26 ride against each other, and I would say the best riders on the day do the best regardless of wheel size.

[Bionic Balls]

Nowadays when i go out riding it is quite often that im the only mod rider, it used to be the other way round but then 26" frames have improved so much in the last 5 years, times change...

completely the other way round for me, I'm the only one riding 26"...!

i can see the argument from both sides- clearly the 26" riders are doing something right...but I know alot of people that insist that riding natural is a whole lot easier on a mod...

looking at the UCI results from hook woods, there's a big difference in scores between the top 3 in 20" and 26" yellow, but i'm not sure that's all due to wheel size. As mentioned before in here, alot of the 20" riders have alot less experience- andy chai was amazed to have come 3rd!

i don't think it's all bad news...

edit- the UK national (BIU) results in red route from hook woods show the 20" riders with much lower scores than the 26"...?

Edited April 30, 2008 by zhi nuts!

[walker]

edit- the UK national (BIU) results in red route from hook woods show the 20" riders with much lower scores than the 26"...?

That is a valid point, but I think what Fred is saying is that it might be the end of 20" riders in the yellow route. This is because of the ups and gaps etc being bigger, and this is where the advantage to 26" riders is starting to come in.

[Matt Burrows]

I definitely think it would be better for the riders to have the old categories. But going on last weekends entry this would mean automatic podium finishes in many classes, a complete joke if we're honest. The elite entry may have been high, but for the rest of the categories it was poor at best. To me this topic is completely side-stepping the real issue! Why do we still have 2 UK federations?

Some have suggested that this year should be used as an experiment – can’t agree with that as those it effects will potentially be spending large sums of money to act as guinea pigs and ride in events using a format they don’t agree with. Other Nations are applying the rules, I wager their riders won’t be happy with the system either and it will change back, so why spoil a year in the U.K.

I wager that riders are more concerned about the on going rift between the 2 federations, as this has had a much larger effect than any rule changes. The state of UK trials took a severe dive last year, and has yet to make any signs of recovery. Over the last 2 weekends Mike and I have spent over £150 to travel to and enter 2 BIU "nationals." In what way is that fair? Riders are having to pay twice as much to ride in competitions with little more than half the entry they had in 2005/6. Apparently I won Senior/red route on Sunday, but it felt like a very hollow victory with only 3 or 4 26" riders.

I'm sorry to write a negative post that will no doubt offend some people. I have enjoyed riding at both competitions and am very glad I went to both. But when spending such large amounts of money on so called national events, it is disappointing when compared to past years. I for one would like to see the nationals get bigger and better every year but we have really taken a step back. It seems that we have let peoples egos and agendas get in the way of what is important. And this has been not just detrimental to the riders but also to the overall state of UK trials and its image.

Isn't it time we started discussing ways in which we can have just 1 BIU national championship, with top events that everyone will want to go to?

[bonzojim]

At club trials 20 and 26 ride against each other, and I would say the best riders on the day do the best regardless of wheel size.

sometimes it can be the case but alot of the time it depends on what wheel sizes the sections are set out best for which is usually 26"

also i have noticed a few people sayin why dont 20" riders just move to 26" thats stupid because if you prefer riding smaller wheels why should you have to make the change? also some people might not be able to get on well with 26" bikes.

in my opinion they should not have changed the rules their was no need for it!

Cheers james...

[Mr Rankin]

I for one think combining the two classes is a bad move. However for entertainment value i can see how it is better.

In my opinion 26" do have an advantage these days what with the huge improvement in technology and build quality.

HOWEVER....... being one of the top few mod riders at competitions, i will be the first to admitt that i am nowhere near as good as the top 3/4/5 stock riders in the country. I cannot blame that on the size of my wheels...

What the BIU want they get, i cant say i agree with the decision but hey its not life or death

Tom

[walker]

I definitely think it would be better for the riders to have the old categories. But going on last weekends entry this would mean automatic podium finishes in many classes, a complete joke if we're honest. The elite entry may have been high, but for the rest of the categories it was poor at best. To me this topic is completely side-stepping the real issue! Why do we still have 2 UK federations?

I wager that riders are more concerned about the on going rift between the 2 federations, as this has had a much larger effect than any rule changes. The state of UK trials took a severe dive last year, and has yet to make any signs of recovery. Over the last 2 weekends Mike and I have spent over £150 to travel to and enter 2 BIU "nationals." In what way is that fair? Riders are having to pay twice as much to ride in competitions with little more than half the entry they had in 2005/6. Apparently I won Senior/red route on Sunday, but it felt like a very hollow victory with only 3 or 4 26" riders.

I'm sorry to write a negative post that will no doubt offend some people. I have enjoyed riding at both competitions and am very glad I went to both. But when spending such large amounts of money on so called national events, it is disappointing when compared to past years. I for one would like to see the nationals get bigger and better every year but we have really taken a step back. It seems that we have let peoples egos and agendas get in the way of what is important. And this has been not just detrimental to the riders but also to the overall state of UK trials and its image.

Isn't it time we started discussing ways in which we can have just 1 BIU national championship, with top events that everyone will want to go to?

Totally agree with you Matt, is nice having more competitions to ride, but having two federations just doesnt work, we need one series of comps with possibly a few more rounds in the series. This will be better for publicity and the sport in general.

This is a serious issue that needs addressing. I can see a lot of people agreeing with this, but we need to be able to work together. Without pointing the finger at people it seems that there are people with too much self interest to see that what has been happening that has damaged the sport.

Maybe a new thread should be made to raise awareness to people who don't know the current situation.

Andrew

[JT!]

- Is it possible to favour 20” bike by choice of terrain?

- Should the classes be split again?

I personally think that they should be split, it's impossible to make a section equal. And that's it really.

There was a comment in another thread about how if you take a number of results and do an averge, there was 1 dab in it, which seemed to be the convincing factor to putting them together. But this is a poor way of looking at it. If you travel 100 miles in a car with an average speed of 45mph it doesn't mean your doing 45mph stop to finish. You may get in a trafic jam, or you may fly down a road at 100mph for 10 mins.

If a rider goes to a competition where a lot of the sections (with no fault to the section designers) are benifical for there opposing bike type, they're gonna get pissed off. And them going to a comp where it's the other way round, benifical to them, they're going to be content. But overall discouraged more by the unfairness from that one trial.

I also feel that the section designers will now be more conserned with making the section fair for all wheel sises, than an interesting, challenging section. Which would be really bad.

[JT!]

Is it possible to design a section that favours one bike or the other? Absolutely. It's therefore essential that the sections either favour neither, or they balance so that 20" are favoured on some, 26" on others. Of course, people will always bitch that it's not in their favour, that the other bike would have been easier, but that's life

If it was possible to make sections favorless, then this all wouldn't be a problem. But that is impossible.

[kelly farm trials]

We are recognised by the BIU and EBU as the official BIU BikeTrial organisation in this country and we are expected to abide by the BIU rules at our UK Biketrial British Championship as it will be and is used to select the National team riders for the World and European Championships.

If and when the BIU decide to alter or amend the rules then we will follow suit, if we do otherwise then we can't call it a BIU Championship.

We are listening to your concerns and we appreciate the varied opinions on the subject, the best riders will still win on whatever wheel size they use and the other point that there should only be one UK BikeTrial championship like it used to be is a most important point.

Edited April 30, 2008 by kelly farm trials

[Waynio]

^^ ^^ ^^ ok i agree with your point. "your" the real BIU EBU in this country.

BUT personally IMO your not pushing the sport forward, your letting it "tick" over, your organisation seemed a little dissapointing, your venues are the same, year in year out. i dont want to add critisism or a negative on this, but look at the venues the UK NATIONALS have got???? Blackpool, Addingham, Fort William, Shipley glen!!!! Brimham rocks??? ok these venues are all in the north.

BUT if you combined the 2 series or made that there is more competitions (etc etc) but people got out of their head "they own BIU/EBU" in the UK then trials would be run much freerer, i was banned last year for making an opinion known, i wouldnt wear a shirt in Czech because i felt that the organisation and the way people went about it was abysmal.

The energy that the national championships have are so much great, take away the red and yellow route, there are more riders in the lower classes than at the BIU/EBU trial on sunday???? it tells you its won story, just wait till blackpool and addingham etc, the nationals will turn around at LEAST 10 to 20 riders in the age category of 6 and 10 (if not many more!!!)

Just my opinion, but id like other members of the forum to see that, the only way to progress is to promote, i dont see any promotion on behalf of the BIU/EBU committee, i feel IMO that they run the trials for their own EGO.

i know alot of work goes in, i work as a committee member for tyke trial and help out with bits and bobs, attaining venues and such forth....its like matt burrows has said, its the rift thats causing the main issue, but the wild rule changes shows the biu may have taken a turn for the worst???? or is the BIU dying off???

Wayne

[NSE]

This is going a little off topic.

Currently there are a number of championships any rider can pursue, people are voting with their feet and will continue to do so. You don’t have to go to one over the other or to all – just do what you want.

Let’s get back to the point in question;

It appears that in general riders want 20 and 26” classes separated.

I find it hard to accept Kelly farm’s remarks – your events do not mirror an International event perfectly, so why not adjust an unpopular aspect of the rules?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I don't think that's really an option though... As Anthony says, as it stands now the official BIU comps in the UK must be run by the BIU rules in order to allow riders to 'qualify' for International BIU comps. The only way round that would be for the organisers to request that the UK comps are allowed to run with split classes with the agreement of the BIU. I don't see why they wouldn't agree to that either... probably worth an ask

[Waynio]

i think what people are trying to say is:

if you are in charge of the BIU in your designated countries you are probably able to adjust and modify the rules according, as long as when attending a world bike trial championship event you abide to the rules that are stated in the BIU handbook.

i think it probably has something to do with the ACU etc, that the rules maybe published in there, hence why they wont/cant change them????

Just think of the options and the strength of british trials if we could just bin the pants rules, bike trial is an independant sport and should be run and adhered to by the people who attend (the competitiors) therefore it would be best to make rules that suit the riders in the designated country, we want more people at trials? therefore more people will attend without the silly rules, and for 2 or 3 comps in a year (WBC World Biketrial Championships) im sure for those 2 or 3 events that people will understand the rules that we miss out.

its all about getting numbers????and riders to have fun and enjoy comps, myself, like ben travis, i do it more for the pleasure and to keep me fit, i dont care weather i win or come last, as long as i enjoy myself, i dont give a monkeys.

Wayne.

[TykeTrial]

If and when the BIU decide to alter or amend the rules then we will follow suit, if we do otherwise then we can't call it a BIU Championship.

BIU International Technical Rules Mod 017 2008

See Article 40, National Technical Rules ...

"Every country is authorised to publish its own technical rules however they may be different from the international ones except the penalization system."

Job sorted!

[Waynio]

i thort i had read some where last year when i was reading through the rules and regulations about this.

as i had to find the rule about the sport and disrepute...............

Wayne.

[walker]

So are the rules going to change if there are enough complaints about it? Is the way that the British Championship run really in the best interests of the riders? Again, the splitting into two federations isnt really in anyones best interests and it seems that we've now got a north/south divide, with only the serious top riders riding both...

Andrew

Edited May 1, 2008 by walker

[noworries]

BIU International Technical Rules Mod 017 2008

See Article 40, National Technical Rules ...

"Every country is authorised to publish its own technical rules however they may be different from the international ones except the penalization system."

Job sorted!

The Committee are also aware of this but in this instance were requested by the President of the BIU to adhere to the new rules via the BIU delegate Barry Deeks.

Job sorted!! not quite - life is never that easy