£30 Fine, Cpo Riding Path *video Evidence*

[Pagie]

Silly amounts of times me and mates have been out riding at night and pulled by PCSOs for not having lights, they warn us and let us go... only once has a mate got fined, but he was questioning the PCSOs rights so i think they just thought mehhhh hes getting it! I think its just how you treat them that decides what you gonna get, be polite, listen to them they shouldnt really need to give you a fine or even a warning... aha i just think your unlucky if you did get a fine!

[Mr Plod]

I may have shit-talked your job, but you still had no right to call me a Daily Mail reader, haha.

Haha I wasn't saying you was just that alot of people believe what they read in the papers like that 10 year old boy that drowned in the quarry that time whilst "two PCSO's stood by and watched"... Wasn't at all like that. Yet they gave it a full page of coverage but a few weeks later two PCSO's saved a woman from a canal and it only got a paragraph of coverage... We're told in no uncertain terms are we allowed to go into the water. If we do then it's completely of our own doing and we face disciplinary action for doing it but we'll also get a commendation so it's a bit of a stupid situation...

If you fine me you will get a backslap

So you're willing to assault a Police officer? Just because we're PCSO's it doesn't mean you have the right to hit us and if you do then we'll more than likely fight back using what we feel is reasonable force and this could easily result in you receiving a broken wrist or arm and so on... Only difference being, you'll get charged with assault and we won't because our use of force was justified...

Finally, Gyser by the way you talk you clearly believe in what you are doing, which is very good and I'm convinced you will be a good PCSO, however I can't help but feeling maybe everything your saying has just been programmed into you in your training thus far, instilling the belief that you are serving a purpose to society as a whole, not just a government tool to look like they are taking action.

Well the above is just my thoughts, I mean no offence to anyone who is/was/will be a PCSO it's just what (from my limited knowledge on the matter) I think to be the case.

Phil

Yeah that's fair enough. We are a cheaper "police officer" but alot of the time we're first on scene and do save peoples lives... Also especially where I live PCSO's have been used to massive effect and crime actually has dropped.

As for the all the information being programmed in... In a way yes but alot of what I've said is just common sense and that's what being a PCSO is all about. You're not going to remember everything from your training and you're constantly learning and the way we deal with a situation will differ with each PCSO but that's because we're all using our common sense and then applying our training where needed. I don't mean for what I say to come across almost robotic but it's how I see things personally and even if I wasn't in the job I'd still praise and respond the way I do... That's just how I am.

[Pagie]

Silly amounts of times me and mates have been out riding at night and pulled by PCSOs for not having lights, they warn us and let us go... only once has a mate got fined, but he was questioning the PCSOs rights so i think they just thought mehhhh hes getting it! I think its just how you treat them that decides what you gonna get, be polite, listen to them they shouldnt really need to give you a fine or even a warning... aha i just think your unlucky if you did get a fine!

[Mr Plod]

Double post sorry

Sorry, but that made me laugh. From what I understand, if any kind of threat or threatening behaviour is used either towards a PCSO or anyone else, the officer is trained to simply walk away. They aren't allowed to intervene (is that right Gyser?).

Also, completely agree that they are simply cheap, undertrained police officers with very little real power or authority. Somewhere above a security guard but far below a real police officer.

Sorry for more shit talking of your job but that's my opinion.

Our role is non-confrontational yes but whether we choose to step in or not is of our own discretion. If I see someone getting the living shit kicked out of them then I'm not going to simply walk away, I'm going to try and split it up somehow, whether that's distracting the suspect or jumping in and forcing the attacker off the victim... All down to our own discretion but yes we are told in training to just walk away and radio in for back up. But even PC's are told to do the same...

Like I said everyone is entitled to their opinions and thats fine by me. I love my job so far and I can't wait to get out on borough but thats purely because I can't see myself doing a simple 9-5 job behind a desk all day. I like to be out and about and public services is something I've always wanted a career in. I'm hopefully using the PCSO role as a step into the Regular Police but I've always wanted to become a FireFighter. That in itself is near on impossible to apply for so hopefully this role and experience I gain from it will help me pursue my career further.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Gyser

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Haha I wasn't saying you was just that alot of people believe what they read in the papers like that 10 year old boy that drowned in the quarry that time whilst "two PCSO's stood by and watched"... Wasn't at all like that. Yet they gave it a full page of coverage but a few weeks later two PCSO's saved a woman from a canal and it only got a paragraph of coverage... We're told in no uncertain terms are we allowed to go into the water. If we do then it's completely of our own doing and we face disciplinary action for doing it but we'll also get a commendation so it's a bit of a stupid situation...

But that's part of the problem... The examples you've given here and in previous posts would've been exactly the same for any self respecting human... saving people on 7/7, check. Jumping in a canal to save someone, check. The one in the quarry, that was a choice of the people in question which came down to stupid health and safety crap. If they'd been off duty would they have tried to save them... well probably not but most real people would.

So you're willing to assault a Police officer?

Again, that's the point... PCSO's aren't police officers. What you describe is that you're powers don't really exceed a normal citizen defending themself against violence.

Sorry, I'm still not convinced!

Edit:

I'm hopefully using the PCSO role as a step into the Regular Police but I've always wanted to become a FireFighter. That in itself is near on impossible to apply for so hopefully this role and experience I gain from it will help me pursue my career further.

Good luck with that, regardless of opinion, in the eyes of the people that matter being a PCSO should be a good stepping stone towards your goal.

[Ducko]

just another revenue for the goverment as far as i care,

fines for this that the other,

country is an absolute joke,

other day i got kicked out of some loading bays where we live, pointless.

and maybe this lack of being able to do f**k all these days is the reason we have so many chavs and the like breaking stuff,

you cant do anything without getting ball ache for it!

absolute joke,

rant over unlucky with the ticket felas

Edited March 31, 2008 by craigdavies

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

other day i got kicked out of some loading bays where we live, because of no reason apart from we were not supposed to be there

Mmmkay...

[Mr Plod]

But that's part of the problem... The examples you've given here and in previous posts would've been exactly the same for any self respecting human... saving people on 7/7, check. Jumping in a canal to save someone, check. The one in the quarry, that was a choice of the people in question which came down to stupid health and safety crap. If they'd been off duty would they have tried to save them... well probably not but most real people would.

Yeah I know any normal human being would have done the same and it is health and safety gone mad I agree... But in that quarry case it's not just a normal pond. The water's full of silt which makes it heavier than conventional water and our jumpers and so on weigh enough as it is and so if we jump in we're likely to sink straight to the bottom. So anyone jumping in would be at risk of sinking no matter what they're wearing as it's just like a big pool of quick sand. Add to the fact that the child was already under water so his exact location couldn't be pinpointed and you're going to realise whether you're a PCSO, Police Officer, FireFighter or just a regular citizen, you're not going to jump blindly into the water...

Again, that's the point... PCSO's aren't police officers. What you describe is that you're powers don't really exceed a normal citizen defending themself against violence.

Sorry, I'm still not convinced!

Ok maybe I could have worded it better but whether you're Police 'Staff' or not and you assault someone then you can't really complain whether they fight back or not. You're then a criminal and deserve to be punished whether that's with a fine for riding on the pavement or even worse for assualting us or a member of the public...

Edit:

Good luck with that, regardless of opinion, in the eyes of the people that matter being a PCSO should be a good stepping stone towards your goal.

I know it may seem like I'm trying to argue here but I'm not. I don't want to cause trouble and so on but I think it's a bit unfair when people just slate us for infact doing our job (Not directed at you and most of the people on here but more of a rant...). Different forces across the country have different ways of policing but here in the suburbs of london, most of the people I've spoken to think PCSO's are invaluable. It depends where you live really...

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Fair enough. It seems like the whole PCSO scheme has good intentions but a lot of forces/jurisdictions are getting it wrong. Anyway, all the best to you.

[Phil H]

I know it may seem like I'm trying to argue here but I'm not. I don't want to cause trouble and so on but I think it's a bit unfair when people just slate us for infact doing our job (Not directed at you and most of the people on here but more of a rant...). Different forces across the country have different ways of policing but here in the suburbs of london, most of the people I've spoken to think PCSO's are invaluable. It depends where you live really...

The difference is I'm not slating PCSO's for doing their job, I'm questionning whether the job even needs to exist. I don't think you really adressed this part of my arguement and would be interested in what you think. (See above post)

It's more than likely that everyone you have spoken to thinks to highly of PCSO's is because if they didn't they would not have given up their time to talk to you in the first place, so I don't think that stands to reason.

Phil

[Mr Plod]

The difference is I'm not slating PCSO's for doing their job, I'm questionning whether the job even needs to exist. I don't think you really adressed this part of my arguement and would be interested in what you think. (See above post)

It's more than likely that everyone you have spoken to thinks to highly of PCSO's is because if they didn't they would not have given up their time to talk to you in the first place, so I don't think that stands to reason.

Phil

Mind if you quote exactly what part you'd like me to address?

Alot of people just hate the uniform. As simple as that. They see us in a uniform and just automatically don't like us but whereas with a Police Officer they're called to an incident and deal with it then leave... PCSO's are there to provide victim support and someone that people can talk to and express their concerns. When patrolling we're told to walk slowly and stop every now and then just so people can engage in conversation with us and it's all about building relationships with the people. If they express their concerns to us then we'll try and get the problem sorted.

When I visited my station and met my safer neighbourhoods team on my induction day, they were telling me how two of the pcso's were approached by a gentleman who was very ill. He was threatening to kill himself and was standing between two parked cars and threatening to jump infront of the next car that drove past. They managed to calm him down and escorted him home where they called the LAS and got him checked over. They spoke to the mother and she told them she was having trouble coping with her son and needed help. Because she's told them that they've been able to set her up with a care assistant who will visit the gentleman and just give his mum a chance to relax and let someone else take over... They've therefore built a relationship with the woman and her son and have offered to visit just to check up from time to time whereas a normal police officer wouldn't be able to.

I'm off out now to get my boots but like I said if you wouldn't mind quoting the part you'd like me to address then I'll try and answer when I get back later on.

Thanks

[Phil H]

Mind if you quote exactly what part you'd like me to address?

Alot of people just hate the uniform. As simple as that. They see us in a uniform and just automatically don't like us but whereas with a Police Officer they're called to an incident and deal with it then leave... PCSO's are there to provide victim support and someone that people can talk to and express their concerns. When patrolling we're told to walk slowly and stop every now and then just so people can engage in conversation with us and it's all about building relationships with the people. If they express their concerns to us then we'll try and get the problem sorted.

When I visited my station and met my safer neighbourhoods team on my induction day, they were telling me how two of the pcso's were approached by a gentleman who was very ill. He was threatening to kill himself and was standing between two parked cars and threatening to jump infront of the next car that drove past. They managed to calm him down and escorted him home where they called the LAS and got him checked over. They spoke to the mother and she told them she was having trouble coping with her son and needed help. Because she's told them that they've been able to set her up with a care assistant who will visit the gentleman and just give his mum a chance to relax and let someone else take over... They've therefore built a relationship with the woman and her son and have offered to visit just to check up from time to time whereas a normal police officer wouldn't be able to.

I'm off out now to get my boots but like I said if you wouldn't mind quoting the part you'd like me to address then I'll try and answer when I get back later on.

Thanks

Thanks for ther response, will continue later and I will quote the areas.

Phil

[dan_addison]

other day i got kicked out of some loading bays where we live,

Maybe you got kiked off because you were trespassing on private propaty(sp) Most people dont understand what we do on our bikes and what we can do it on best just to be polite and move on

The difference is I'm not slating PCSO's for doing their job, I'm questionning whether the job even needs to exist. I don't think you really adressed this part of my arguement and would be interested in what you think. (See above post)

So you dont feel safer walking at night knowing there is someone walking around looking for crime? I dont know about you but where i live on a friday walking home past a macdonalds where theres always a few caraceters pissed out of there heads that might start something. I know that some people are just gonna say 'u cant take a couple of chavs you soft little twat' fact of the matter is i have to go to school with them and cant really be arsed getting in a ruck with someone ever lunch time. So PCSO are worth the bother and the traning

[Mr Plod]

I just realised that you'd posted a link to a video in one of your earlier posts Mark. Having just watched it a minute ago it has annoyed me... The way that PCSO acted was way out of line and gives the rest of us a bad name with behaviour and an attitude like that. Telling a member of the public to shut up certainly isn't on and I hope the gentleman filming put in a complaint to the PCSO's senior officer. I can see why alot of you think we're idiots but as with everything it only takes one person to give the rest of us a bad name so I hope you don't think of myself or most of the other PCSO's as being as incompetent and as stupid as that PCSO was.

[Sidehop Stuart]

i nearly got fined today.....luckily my mate was watching out whilst i was riding and he shouted to me and the PCSO walked straight past us:)

[fredrico]

Personly i think everything Jenny and Monkeysee.. has said to be bang on. im not a chav but i do stop to talk to groups of them in my area and have been approached by PCSO's, and im not sure if its the same everywhere but where i live if people see a police officer they change how they act/ stop looking so dodgy but when its a PCSO they carry on fully knowing that there is nothing they will do.

Gyser you say that if you give false names you will get tracked, which im sorry, but its bollocks, im constantly being stopped for riding on pavements, no lights etc and they always try issuing a fine and everytime i give a false name and nothing has ever come off it.

However there is one good thing with PCSO's, last summer when they were introduced they acted cool and got on with all the youths in my area. They learnt everyones names and who went where. Doing this enabled a chav who did a grab and run in a petrol station get identified and caught just beause our local PCSO could match the description with the name.

Other than that they are genraly a joke, especialy the Pc Pushbikes.

Not wanting to cause offence Gyser, just my opinion and what i have encountered.

it only takes one person to give the rest of us a bad name.

This s the problem, its not just the one PCSO acting a tool, its 98% of them.

Edited March 29, 2008 by ocirderf

[Robwalker]

Have you not seen that guy who walks around hanley? (dead tall, blonde hair, proper proper proper white skin, like no tan at all) Thinks he's SWAT or something? You see him crouching behind corners and everything, waiting to ambush and pop a cap in some poor souls ass.

lol

[Radfax]

So you dont feel safer walking at night knowing there is someone walking around looking for crime? I dont know about you but where i live on a friday walking home past a macdonalds where theres always a few caraceters pissed out of there heads that might start something. I know that some people are just gonna say 'u cant take a couple of chavs you soft little twat' fact of the matter is i have to go to school with them and cant really be arsed getting in a ruck with someone ever lunch time. So PCSO are worth the bother and the traning

in my local area... No, i will exsplain further down

My local PCSO's are complete and utter rubbish where as the PCOS'S in london are bloody legends aswell as othere i have met in surrounding areas IE, Essex/surrey and even some PCSO'f from surrounding towns but our locals seem to be naff (not knocking the job or nowt here before anyone flies off of the rail).

I am not a trouble some charachter and have never had any trouble with any police in my life... ever. But my locl PCSO's dont seem to leave me and a few others alone, i have had them folow me into my local tescos and follow me around the shop (on more than one occasion) only a few steps behind me (which i am pretty sure they cant do) I have even turn around and given them items to carry to the till for me (which they did) and then follow me out. We then walk out side through a group of youths drinking smoking and being very loud and roudy and they do not batter an eyelid! as soon as a lad goees through on a bike or a skateboard they are on him like flies on shit!

Like the other day i went to the cashpoint to get some money out at around 9:30, there is a very popular local club a few meters walk from the shopping centre where i got my dollah, anyhow a few lads were kicking in a shop window... there was no PCSO's to see anywhere, i was there a few minutes and still no one turned up yet some one rides through on a push bike and christ they are there within seconds!

There are a fair few doggey people around my area and there are a fair few fights and muggings, yet there is no one to be seen, PCSO's do not make me feel safe in the slightest bit and my local ones are crap BUT i have meet more decent ones then i have shit ones, but then again, i dont really want to meet any shit PCOS's!

[dan_addison]

I know what you mean, i cant go for a pint of milk down the shop with out being searched by a real officer but still PSCO do alot of good work and get no credit for it, which i think is abit of a kik in the nuggets especially when they could be putting themselfs in the line of danger

[Dan Burgess]

I know what you mean, i cant go for a pint of milk down the shop with out being searched by a real officer but still PSCO do alot of good work and get no credit for it, which i think is abit of a kik in the nuggets especially when they could be putting themselfs in the line of danger

are you a PSCO? lol

[dan_addison]

No i just think its a piss take how much shit they get, some may be dicks but still do a good job

[Sir_Hops_Alot]

You can legally ride any bike under a 20" wheel on the pavement.

[Adam-Griffin]

You can legally ride any bike under a 20" wheel on the pavement.

Possibly the most annoying comment ever ? It's bullshit ...

[Radfax]

No i just think its a piss take how much shit they get, some may be dicks but still do a good job

yes i agree, its the FEW tossers which do the job thinking they are a member of SWAT and think that they have the right to talk to people like shit which get the rest a bad name!

A local lad down my way got given a £80 fine so i hear?

[Captain Scarlet]

On the argument of PCSO's I just thought I'd like to add my opinions.

I love the idea of a PCSO, its a light police officer and saves lots of time and money in training a full on police officer.

But I find the term "light police officer" an oxymoron, a light police officer involves light training, and therefore light strengths.

Therefore, there is only so much a PCSO can officially judge on in a tough situation (such as the dispute of riding on paths, as this without a doubt is covered in their training).

But in a more serious situation, such as a a fight or pub brawl, a PCSO would have to rely on his/her's own experience and knowledge to resolve the issue (as I'm sure as anything as spontaneous as this would not be covered in six weeks training).

To cut a long story short, I don't believe the PCSO idea is a brilliant solution to the UK's crime situation simply because the training and job isn't as indepth as a fully trained officer, and that means there is too much that a PCSO hasn't been trained in.