Zoo Pads, Whats Happend?

[Z o o !!]

Back to topic someone should get the material and make old zoo pads would make a bit from all the people that miss them.

You would need to know the compound of the polyurethane used to make the pad in the first place in order to make them again. i think they would be something like 75 - 80a ?

[Krisboats]

You would need to know the compound of the polyurethane used to make the pad in the first place in order to make them again. i think they would be something like 75 - 80a ?

As i said earlier, you'd need to know the exact mixture in order to get them right, though i wouldn't be suprised if they came out at 75a. Our reds are more rubbery, where as the only way i can describe the zoos texture in comparison is they're more kitchen sponge-like.

[Z o o !!]

Yeah, i emailed deng a week ago and he gave me a low down on most of the new products and how they compare to the old parts, he says they are basically the same, i would post up the email but he asked me not to, so im not sure if i will.

[MadManMike]

What does he have to hide?

Just wondering as I've seen this said a few times on here now - why the secrecy?

[Z o o !!]

Dengs email :

Hi:

About the frame quality, the factory we are working with is much better than before, the problem is we are selling much more than before, 1% of now is much bigger than 3% before. you talking about the welding quality of GU ST frames. I have to say the welding is ok. at first, this is a very long welding, by hand. You can't compare this with the short welding. You can see the GU LE frame has not long welding, and the welding looks much better. The second, the frame is not welding by one but 20 workers at the same time. You just see that frame in Trials-UK and they just show a bad looking frame. Most of this model still looks smooth. I can say just 3-5 frames ST frames we have sold has bad looking welding. The third, the looking is just a problem of looking, the quality is still the same. Same warranty.

All frames are by hand. This is not a plastic parts by machine. we just care about the %, 1% is acceptable. 10% is not. Not one can get 0%. A company sell 100 frame a year, has 3% bad frames, there are only 3 frames are bad quality. a company has 2% bad frames, but this company sell 1000 frames, there are 20 bad frames in the world. Compare this 2 company, everyone will say the first company has better quality. You know what I'm talking about? I think we have a warranty, if people buy a frame which has quality problem, we can replace the frame by a new one for free, This is enough. We have to say we can't do 0% bad frames.

About the geometry: No any geometry is good or bad. Just different, riders should fine a better geometry for himself. You can't say "XXX's geometry is horrible", TRA told me the 372mm chainstays with 60mm high BB is a wrong geometry, but Damon Watson say he just love this geometry, this is why he move from Adamant to GU, Adamant don't make 60mm high BB frames any more. You can't say who is wrong, because everyone need different geometry. To find a geometry for yourself is very interesting. Don't just listen to others, you have to try by your self.

About the old design parts:

-Zoo mod stem--it's the same stem of ECHO stem, 160mmX25d, with high polished surface.

-Echo CNC rims--a 38mm rim, for rear wheel is too narrow, for front is too heavy, you want this just because you can't buy it now.

-original Echo Team stem geo--we has never change the geometry, 160X25d. we will add 170X30D later.

-Zoo pads--the same pad as ECHO pad in green. If you want the ZOO! pad, buy a pair of ECHO green pad then remove the logo. That it is.

-white stripe Supatrial tires--The same tire we are selling now, we just don't want to put our logo on it, because the factory always sell the bad quality tire into China market at a super low price.

-04 python frames-04/05 pure frames--The unavailable thing are always better than money can buy, this is what you talking about.

-old silver Echo cranks with steel/brass thread--You must be kidding me. The old cranks are ten time worse! Only 1-2% of current cranks need to be replace. The old one is 30%+. The 6061 current model is CNC thread and gold forged, no more thread problem anymore. So we don't need the steel brass thread. Other brand need this thing because the factory working with them is not that good. The strength of current model is 2 times of the old one too. Cold forged compare to the hot forged. The most problem of the cranks are thread striped. But 50% crank thread striped is because the fixed cog or freewheel has a wrong thread size. The cranks is aluminum and the cogs/freehweels are steel. even the steel parts has problem, the cranks die. 7075 cranks is better at this problem, the thread is higher hardness, which wouldn't die so fast. Anyway, we just replace less 1% in 2007.

-original geo Zoo bars--I have to ask you about the geometry this bar. I swear we never change the geometry of this model. But people always telling me there are 2 different geometry. I check it by myself. I have to say it's the same as before. How can you find the geometry is different?

About the frames design, I am not design for making people happy, because different people want different design, you can't make everyone happy. So I just design the parts or frame by my taste. I know I can't make everyone happy, but I did try my best.

Trust me: I design everything of our company. I know the design and the manufacture processing of every parts. I know our products more than anyone else. The quality of the current one IS the same or better than before. The design is a different topic. You can say you like it or not but you can't say what is good or what is bad. Just different.

Thank you for your care of our products!

Deng

[Krisboats]

There was a picture a while back that had 2 pairs of zoo bars right next to each other and they weren't the same at all.

I don't know how re-assuring it is that the person who designed them can't even see a difference in them.

[Muel]

Example: his 08 Echo Lite frames (magura, super low standover) are horrendously ugly compared to the 06 and 07 Lites for starters, but also the rear dropouts are angled so the wheel clamping is awkward and doesn't hold all that tight (Echo rear hub, this is), it's a huge problem on Chai's bike for one.

The 07 maggy frame didn't change for 08. The dropouts on mine were dead accurate, maybe Chai's was a dodgy one?

I thought my 06 was ugly next to my 07. I also have to admit, the 07 one looked Nicer than my current 08. But, I needed a disc mount!

[Ladd]

The 07 maggy frame didn't change for 08. The dropouts on mine were dead accurate, maybe Chai's was a dodgy one?

I thought my 06 was ugly next to my 07. I also have to admit, the 07 one looked Nicer than my current 08. But, I needed a disc mount!

I cracked a 07 echo lite

[Muel]

There was a picture a while back that had 2 pairs of zoo bars right next to each other and they weren't the same at all.

I don't know how re-assuring it is that the person who designed them can't even see a difference in them.

http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....st&id=23851

Wrong pic, but you can see that the old Zoo bars are almost like TI bars, but TI bars are nothing like new Zoo bars. Hmmmm.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Muel

[Danny Kearns]

What the fook.

Dengs Zoo! Stems wern't 160x25 at all. They were 145x25. I also think his comment about the Echo CNC rims was abit arsy to be fair. His Zoo! Bars an all, If they havn't changed im qutting riding end of. His Echo tyres now, not half as good as his super trial one's.

To be honest, Half of what eh said in that Email is shit.

[Muel]

I cracked a 07 echo lite

Shame on you!

[JT!]

I agree with everything he's said, people only want some things because you can't buy them anymore, everyone HATED the tyres when they were availble. Onza should stop selling sticky fingers and then everyone would want them.

The green zoo pads have always been the same in my eyes.

All what he said about the geo too is right, there's never a right geo. Find a geo you like and don't sell the frame because something better has come out, then morn over the perfect frame you sold.

He was a bit arsey, but if someone said to you 'bring back the old zoo pads' when they've been exactly the same for years, what can you expect.

I love deng.

[Danny Kearns]

Ok. Ill get my hands on some 07 Zoo! Bars and compare them with my 04 Zoo! Bars and 05! zoo bars, I've also borrowed a friend my 06 One's and ill get a picture of them all next to each other.

[Luke Rainbird]

Please do, Dan. It'd be interesting to compare the bunch.

I can see Deng's points in the email he's sent, but can't say I agree wholly with each one.

If he were to take more from the messages he gets, listening to his market as opposed to getting very defensive (don't get me wrong, he's a great businessman!) then we, the riders, would be happier with newer parts, leading to more purchases and him doing well out of things too

[Phill_Monks]

im sure the tyres are different

and i am 100% positive that the 06 bars are different to the 07/08

as for the pads..the old 2004 ones were extremely soft, and as it says on Tarty... "Available in 5 colours, all the same compound, just pick whichever colour matches your colour scheme best!" someone is wrong seeing as deng says there the same as the green echo ones.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Phill_Monks