Talk Sense Into Me

[Tomm]

A change is as good as a holiday.

On the other hand, you're an idiot. I'm just totting up how much this is going to cost... To make your bike WORSE. Madness.

[Mat Smith!]

dont do it, i see no point in it at all, and....... chain moves more with a freewheel... .

Matx

[Danny Kearns]

Is it just me, or am I mental?

I'm contemplating selling my CK ISO hub and exchanging it for a fixed rear hub and a front freewheel. Though, I can't see many benefits at all, the weight will be about the same, though it will be further forward on the bike. Then again, most freewheels + replacement parts appear to be cheaper than the CK counterpart.

Someone tell me I'm doing the wrong thing, please. Than I can keep the King

Seriously though, are there benefits?

LOADS of benifits. People may think half of what im about to say is utter shit but there we go.

Firstly. It's not so much the weight difference. It's the weight possitioning. Freewheel set up's are lighter, that is true. But it also shifts the heaviness to the centre of the bike. A heavy backend is a nightmare. I've noticed this since going to rear profile (Worst mistake of my life). I can't actually find any good points of having a rear freehub. It makes your gear feel so much heavier. Makes your bike feel heavier. The only benifit i can fel is, your bike rolls abit smoother.

Secondly. I found when i had my freewheel set up on. My riding style was so more free and so much more flicky. Flicky doesn't exist when you've got a profile, because all the engagements coming from the rear end of the bike meaning you've gotta put more of a kick in. Plus all the weight once again is at the back, where as when it's in the middle, it's not that noticiable. Since i've had my profile, my ridings gone shit to be honest. My bike over all doesn't feel like my bike and it's horriable. Because before i went to profile, my bike felt so so nice.

Three. The engagement is more responsive on a freewheel. With it been at the front. But i think this once is personal perference.

I will most certainly be putting my freewheel set up back on. Really don't like freehub. Yuck.

Hope this helps in some way Mate. .

Danny.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Danny Kearns

[Sponge]

I was going to mention some of those, but Danny got there first

I'm using a Profile on the rear, and true the engagement doesn't feel as 'direct' as a front freewheel would when I remember using one oh so long ago. Aside from what Danny said, by having FFW, there's also the plus side of:

-no rear hub internals to faff about and service with, which can be pretty difficult

-freewheel up front is the only thing needing service, but this tends to be less needed if you get me? ENOs, Tensiles, and ACS all seem to require less servicing when compared to a Profile or King hub. And even when you do service a freewheel, since everything is so much bigger inside, it does make life a bit easier with all the servicing. Don't Kings require some very specialised servicing with specialised tools? Freewheels just seem simpler to service generally speaking...

there is of course the downside of the chain being on the move constantly. I think it looks quite nice in a way, some won't, but I think it's pretty nice and unique looking which baffles other genres of riders out there. But meh, point is, your chain is going to wear out much faster, especially if you cycle about a lot.

For now, I say you should keep the King. Save yourself time, money, and hassle. But if you were to all of a build up a whole new bike, then go for FFW. It's up to you.

[grantham]

look at the top 8 riders in the last uci final what were they running? surely that many top riders can't be wrong?

[the organiser]

i will swop it for you if you want a free wheel for a king

have a good time looking for your new TEETH lol

[ben_travis]

another very useful post above....sorry but nae helpful.

Hmm, i suppose there are benefits to both really.

I have just put my front freewheel back on my bike and im LOVING IT. HOwever i have not got my trousers caught in the chain yet, but no doubt this wont be long.

The bike does seem to flick more, however this is likely to be due to my change of ratio, the bike is lighter than my pro II and fixed front end.

Id keep your king, buy a freewheel and see whether u like it or not. if you do, sell the king, get some money, if not sell your freewheel and get some money.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I went from a CK to an ENO when I changed from my Adamant 26" to my 24". Can't actually remember why to be honest, I tend not to think to much about these things! I'm not complaining though, I've never had issues with FFW, especially since the ENO was released. Go for it and see what you think, at least your bike will no longer sound like a wounded wasp...

Edit: Ben, I've never caught my trousers on the 24" (I think) because I'm running a bashring. Mod's with no bash causes problems but having one seems to solve this.

[ben_travis]

I went from a CK to an ENO when I changed from my Adamant 26" to my 24". Can't actually remember why to be honest, I tend not to think to much about these things! I'm not complaining though, I've never had issues with FFW, especially since the ENO was released. Go for it and see what you think, at least your bike will no longer sound like a wounded wasp...

Edit: Ben, I've never caught my trousers on the 24" (I think) because I'm running a bashring. Mod's with no bash causes problems but having one seems to solve this.

I think yuor probably spot on with this min. Fingers crossed i wont have to deal with that .

p.s...when u next poppin up back home!? When u do, geez a shout min bring yar bike!?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

p.s...when u next poppin up back home!? When u do, geez a shout min bring yar bike!?

Not sure, probably in the Summer sometime. Will give you a shout when I do though .

[eskimo]

An obvious problem people fail to see is the fixed rear sprocket. Screw on cogs are the worst idea to date. I never gave it a thought untill i came to rebuild a wheel. What the phuck am i suppost to do now?

My setup is an Eno 18t with an Echo Fixed splined sprocket

Anyhow another downside not mentioned is the 'street' style of riding it isn't good for. I find having that slacker chain and it constantly spinning around gets annoying when going fast, manualling and hopping alot. It just doesn't feel secure even if you have the perfect tension.

[Krisboats]

look at the top 8 riders in the last uci final what were they running? surely that many top riders can't be wrong?

Its not really for bashing everyday on the streets though is it. How many comps has boumsong done?

Plus he stamps his pedals like no tomorrow, if he had a freewheel setup i can see him breaking it faster than your try-alls go.

[sidehop]

Ive had two profiles and two freewheel set-ups.

and dammm the freewheels are soo much better.

The bike flicks so easy, Parts are cheeper.. Usally.

Weight is alot less in my eyes.

Id say buy a freewheel set-up and try it foryourself... Then choose.

[Davetrials]

king you absolute idiot.

[Deonn h]

I personally would keep the king i like more weight at the back for gapping which suits me and i have better control.Also dont get the trousers etc court in freewheel.

But thats just me im sure alot of people love freewheels , you mite like it better.

[basher]

Go for it and try it. Ive changed from pro2 to freewheel and feel no difference apart from weight.

Its not really for bashing everyday on the streets though is it. How many comps has boumsong done?

Plus he stamps his pedals like no tomorrow, if he had a freewheel setup i can see him breaking it faster than your try-alls go.

Most freewheels are just as strong as freehubs. And i think the top 10 riders in the world who run freewheels will stamp harder than him so he should be ok.

[Gavyn.]

go freewheel.

make sure you've got a bashring on though.

I went freewheel because it was cheap. never got a bashring to save a bit of weight and because I rarely hit it anyway. then i realised over the last 3 months i've recked 3 pairs of £80 jeans so i could have gone king for the price of those and my freewheel set up

[Krisboats]

Go for it and try it. Ive changed from pro2 to freewheel and feel no difference apart from weight.

Most freewheels are just as strong as freehubs. And i think the top 10 riders in the world who run freewheels will stamp harder than him so he should be ok.

But they'd do it smoother, with pre-loading the pedals as well to get the engagements first. Not so with boumsong. I think you'll find the top ten riders who use freewheels on the front generally do it for comps anyway, rather than for everyday street riding. The lightweight aspect is very appealing to a comp rider, where as the majority of stock riders who only ride street use a freehub. If he already has a king, theres no point going for a front freehweel.

[dantrials]

Three. The engagement is more responsive on a freewheel. With it been at the front. But i think this once is personal perference.

Danny.

Mechanically thats wrong, although you may prefer it.

If you have 48 engagements in a front freewheel there are 48 engagements as you make a full rotation with the cranks

If the same freewheel is on the rear and you run 18:12 gearing then you have (18/12 multiplied by 48) 72 engagements as your cranks make a full turn.

What I'm trying to say is a freewheel at the rear has more engagements than if its was placed at the front, so it is actually less "responsive" on the front.

Edited March 21, 2008 by dantrials

[Gavyn.]

Mechanically thats wrong, although you may prefer it.

If you have 48 engagements in a front freewheel there are 48 engagements as you make a full rotation with the cranks

If the same freewheel is on the rear and you run 18:12 gearing then you have (18/12 multiplied by 48) 72 engagements as your cranks make a full turn.

What I'm trying to say is a freewheel at the rear has more engagements than if its was placed at the front, so it is actually less "responsive" on the front.

Thats wrong, well sort of.

most trials freewheels are 18 tooth so if you were to put it on the rear you'd need a 27 tooth front cog in order to get the same ratio. which is annoying on a stock and wont even fit on a mod.

most people who run an 18 on the rear use a 22 tooth on the front.

so 22/18 = 1.22'

1.22 x 48 = 59 so you'd have 59 engagements or near enough for a full rotation.

what you are saying in principle is right but in practice doesn't really work.

[Walleee]

All I know is that whoever said about freewheels having to be used with slacker chain tension is talking out their bum. I've been running my ENO with perfect tension for months now, and it hasn't skiped once.

The way I see it, if one pawl on a freewheel doesn't engage, there will be at least another one (in a 4-pawl device) that should.

My understanding of when a king skips is that nothing engages, so there is absoutley no chance of not f**king yourself up if you have been really throwing yourself into the move.

I know I havn't explained it very well, but perhaps someone understands what i'm getting at.

[eskimo]

i realised over the last 3 months i've recked 3 pairs of £80 jeans

£80 jeans? It's kinda your own fault.

I think with an Eno you can't actually kick the pedals to hard. It engages so fast that the pawls don't have enough distance from engaging to build up enough power to break. Whereas say a Pro2 pawl will recieve more impact due to the more distance it has to engage. That makes sense to me and i'm going with it.

I know what you mean, supposedly when a CK skips, it skips a full rotation. In reality that's craploa, never happened to me and I have made the CK skip a few times, it just crunches into the next engagement like 90% of other hubs.

The thing with the King it operates on one spring doesn't it? So if that spring decides to fail then there is no backup like another pawl with spring underneath.

[Ladd]

go freewheel its amazing So light aswell

[dave85]

The thing with the King it operates on one spring doesn't it? So if that spring decides to fail then there is no backup like another pawl with spring underneath.

The helical splines hold the two driverings together. If the spring does fail, engagment will be a bit sketchy and you'll know about it, but it shouldnt dump you on your arse.

[Tim/Trialsin USA]

Is it just me, or am I mental?

I'm contemplating selling my CK ISO hub and exchanging it for a fixed rear hub and a front freewheel. Though, I can't see many benefits at all, the weight will be about the same, though it will be further forward on the bike. Then again, most freewheels + replacement parts appear to be cheaper than the CK counterpart.

Someone tell me I'm doing the wrong thing, please. Than I can keep the King

Seriously though, are there benefits?

The differences in weight, engagement, durability and the like are nominal. If you already have a King, there is not much point in spending the money to go front freewheel.... and the inverse is true as well. So, if your just looking for an excuse to get new stuff (hey, nothing wrong with that either) , you can find one.... just not enough difference to make you commit crimes for.