ben_travis Posted October 10, 2022 Report Share Posted October 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mark W said: Kind of suggests to me that RB may have found a loophole/loopholes of sorts that mean they can get people in their other, "non-F1" companies to do things for them that they believe shouldn't be classified as part of the cost cap for their official F1 team? LOL. That would be typical RB / Bullish Horner mentality , wouldn't it. They really don't come across as an affable team in general haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 I see they're going for the "We treat our staff so well we overspent, oops" PR angle on this one. It'll be interesting to see if the FIA ever release the full details of which 'grey areas' they've had to thrash out with RB, and what the theoretical overspend was in total before the whittled it down. Assuming RB have still used that same mindset for spending this year, I wonder how spartan their setup is going to be for the next few races to try and claw back some of what they will have been happily overspending this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Snacks and sick pay, innit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 "Er, I mean, we'll need to pay for some f**king incredible sandwiches." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 They'll get away with a fine I reckon, which is obviously totally at odds with the whole point of a cost cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Looks like a number cars pass the tractor at too quickly in an attempt to catching the slower train of cars that were following the safety car....... Obviously the observer with the phone doesn't pick up Gasly because the vertical shot. More amazed at how much daylight is captured by this footage over the FOM from TV coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeRider Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 hours ago, Rusevelt said: Looks like a number cars pass the tractor at too quickly in an attempt to catching the slower train of cars that were following the safety car....... Obviously the observer with the phone doesn't pick up Gasly because the vertical shot. More amazed at how much daylight is captured by this footage over the FOM from TV coverage. Isn't overtaking a tractor too fast a violation of the rules? Hi all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 16 hours ago, AdamR28 said: They'll get away with a fine I reckon, which is obviously totally at odds with the whole point of a cost cap A fine of $144M to be paid out of next year's budget to be paid to the other teams in a diminishing return from the back of the grid to the front? Guaranteed to be peanuts to them whatever it is... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Rusevelt said: More amazed at how much daylight is captured by this footage over the FOM from TV coverage. I think that's primarily due to the angle that's being shot from, and consequently how the camera's auto exposure settings will read it. From the lower shot on the car, with a lot of spray it'll appear to be a really bright image to the camera (a lot of the frame will appear to it as being really bright white), so it'll lower the exposure to try and get it back to what it considers a more neutral exposure. Unfortunately that makes it look super dark. From that guy's point, there's a lot more that the camera sensor can use as references to try and set the exposure, so it looks more normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 18 hours ago, AdamR28 said: They'll get away with a fine I reckon, which is obviously totally at odds with the whole point of a cost cap Yeah, presumably. Docking constructor points for 2021 would be meaningless unless it's a huge amount to actually affect their position in the championship. That probably won't be a precedent they want to set. They're not going to do driver points because it's Max, and they didn't shut their dicks in a drawer repeatedly after Abu Dhabi defending their shit decision making only to have to give the title to Lewis in the end. I imagine that doing anything to either championship probably gets really murky really quickly too in terms of clawing back prize money and all the peripheral stuff like that. I suppose they could restrict testing/wind tunnel time, but again, if they've broken the cap in 2021 and most likely will have done in 2022 if they're following their same theoretically flawed accounting model, they've already got what they needed to get with the regs theoretically being stable for a while. It's just ironic that the FIA actually have the opportunity to show decisive, strong leadership and they're going to totally f**k it off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Indeed. I think it needs a firm hand this time, or it'll totally get out of control. It is technically cheating, in a very definitive and accountable way! Much easier to define and police than on-the-track antics (who didn't leave who space, etc). I can see teams deliberately overspending in the future if the sanctions are light this time, it makes sense to do so. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 14 hours ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said: A fine of $144M to be paid out of next year's budget to be paid to the other teams in a diminishing return from the back of the grid to the front? Guaranteed to be peanuts to them whatever it is... That's a very good idea... Dave for prime minister AND head of F1! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 15 hours ago, AdamR28 said: It is technically cheating, in a very definitive and accountable way! Much easier to define and police than on-the-track antics (who didn't leave who space, etc). It is in a sense, but then I guess if accountancy stuff was cut and dried then there wouldn't be all these tax evasion schemes and a lot of accountants getting paid good money, haha. It seems that Red Bull managed to blur the lines enough that the FIA were querying 6 things. It's also interesting that the FIA aren't actually investigating them, despite Red Bull's methodology clearing being flawed. On that note, read a report yesterday that Adrian Newey - "Adrian Newey, Chief Technical Officer, Red Bull Racing" Adrian Newey - didn't have his salary included in their budget cap as he was a 'Consultant' not an 'Employee'. The top 3 earners in a team (outside the drivers) have their salaries exempt, so effectively by saying he's a 'consultant' means they can bump another high paid engineer into there as, according to Red Bull, Newey shouldn't be included in it anyway. Also worth noting that when Red Bull were head-hunting all Mercedes' team and project leaders, they were offering double and in some cases triple the salary Mercedes were paying them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark W said: I guess if accountancy stuff was cut and dried then there wouldn't be all these tax evasion schemes and a lot of accountants getting paid good money, haha. *Looks disapprovingly at @Luke Rainbird...* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said: *Looks disapprovingly at @Luke Rainbird...* How very dare you, I'm not a filthy accountant! I occasionally help people avoid uneccessary tax, but certainly not evade it Not sure I get paid that good money either, perhaps I should see if Red Bull will pay me - a minor raise of £1.8M should do the trick. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 The cost cap is at the core of the rules now, and the fia is absolutely going to f**k this up again. You can’t really call it a sport if no one enforces the rules on or off the track properly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 14, 2022 Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 Totally. Seem to remember seeing a piece yesterday where Toto said that if Red Bull just get a fine then Mercedes will go over the cost cap too, because why not, really? They want to spend more than the cost cap allows and have the finances to do so, so if it's essentially paying €145m for your F1 program (so you stay on the right side of the material/major breach line) and €10m or so for a fine, that's still probably below what their total spends used to be pre-cost cap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 If anything, the punishment will hurt the other teams more than RedBull because at least they didn't spend the huge sums that Mercedes spent on their most dominant F1 car in the W11 for 2020 season over £400million to run both cars. RedBull have a car in a good place for 2023, its just reliability issues with the car this year that they have to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 As predicted the fia, fail to punish Redbull properly. The fine doesn’t even come out of the cost capped budget! get ready for other teams to not give a shit if they are close to the front…. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted November 6, 2022 Report Share Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) Làs Vagas F1 show. https://youtu.be/N3EGXsqVmzM. Ok watch. F1 must be mad if they think anyone will risk paying out for tickets when they go on sale. Both Lewis and George nearly hit the barriers, and Checko had to be pushed out by RedBull mechanics. Edited November 6, 2022 by Rusevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted November 19, 2022 Report Share Posted November 19, 2022 RedBull 1-2 Max/Perez. Will RedBull try to engineer Perez to finish ahead of Max or simply let them race and let Perez prove his worth that he is capable of beating Max on merit. https://youtu.be/MrYuyR0YrdQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 Looks like a real 2023 contender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 And yet it wasn't: Certainly closer than some of the other "2023 cars" that have been shown so far though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 This will probably the season where almost the entire grid of teams end up cloning parts of RedBull/Ferrari/Mercedes cars as a cost effective measure before adding their own elements as the season progresses. Ferrari launch car looks virtually unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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