Rusevelt Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Let's not forget the huge overhead cost of all. Edited October 28, 2014 by Rusevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Fans of ridiculously obvious shit rejoice: Ferrari have officially announced that Alonso has left and that Vettel will be partnering Raikonnen for 2015. Related driver news - Will Stevens is going to be the other driver alongside Ben Slinger driving for Caterham at Abu Dhabi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Jardo's gonna be chuffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I wonder if the McLaren Honda/Alonso contract talks are taking so long because his obligatory 5th place qualifying position was actually owned by Ferrari rather than him, and they're trying to hold onto it for Vettel next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm kinda surprised (and very disappointed) at Alonso going back to McLaren. The guy acted like a complete tool when he was losing to Hamilton and quite frankly I can't stand him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Blackmailing Ron Dennis was a fairly cunty move, and it is kind of surprising that they've kissed and made up enough to work together. That tetchy relationship would explain why it seems like Honda have been the driving force behind getting him, and were allegedly going to be the ones who contracted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I suppose if you've got an investor supplying possible more then likely winning engines with the heritage that Honda have, you kinda put bygones on the shelf and knuckle down. I'm excited for them to be returning. I hope they bring back the day glow scheme, I loved those cars so soo much. Modern day MP4/6 pleeeease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Day glow was for Marlboro sponsorship which ain't gonna happen! Also hoping for Honda success although they've got a tough job on their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I suppose if you've got an investor supplying possible more then likely winning engines with the heritage that Honda have... Rumours I've seen suggest that the Honda engine isn't really close to the Mercedes of this year, and bearing in mind Mercedes have already found an extra 40-50bhp from simply changing fuel injector/turbo boost pressures, it looks like they've got even more catching up to do. There was talk that the Honda engines were so far behind they wouldn't even be ready for the test after this weekend's race so I'd imagine that they're not really going to be all that great just yet. If they were near the level of Mercedes too I imagine that there wouldn't be a discussion about whether to pay more for Button to make the most of his development experience - you'd go for the cheaper Magnussen who's already had a pretty good season, then use Alonso's feedback to develop the car further. EDIT: Speaking of, it'll be interesting to see if Mercedes do a bit of sand-bagging in that test to try and reduce the amount of pressure on the debate about changing the engine homologation rules for 2015. If they destroy everyone by an even greater margin than this year then I can see the other teams forcing the FIA's hand a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewEH1 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Button to WEC hopefully! Imagine him and Webber in a Porsche together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Most of the top teams there have already released confirmed driver line-ups for next year though so he'd almost be in a similar position to Alonso in that he was left with few options to get a competitive-ish drive. It's why it's also kind of harsh that after driving for McLaren for so long they're kind of f**king him over by not confirming anything until after Dec 1st. I assume behind closed doors things are a bit more concrete, although who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The Honda engine has already done some 'filming day' laps though, so I'm sure it'll get out for the test. Plus the rumours are they've been using it in other series already for the past year or so, even though that's completely forbidden by the rules. I still don't see them sticking with Jenson though, and I don't think most other do either. Unbelievably bad treatment of a guy who has given absolutely everything for a team which haven't been able to give him the right platform for years now. If they're not going to keep him, they should have said weeks ago to give him a great chance in WEC. I love F1, but a Jenson move to WEC would give me a tough choice to drop my Sky subscription and just watch WEC instead, at least until Bernie pulls his head out of his arse or gives up. Separate discussion though, that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah, it'll definitely be out there for the test now but they were unsure whether it'd be ready or not as late as October. I reckon they probably pushed a bit harder to get everything a bit more good-to-go just to help convince Alonso to sign. With Button saying he was willing to take a pay cut to stay on with the team I think it's more likely he might stick around now with Magnussen being dropped down to reserve/development driver for the year. We'll see! For anyone not watching the practise sessions from today, Hamilton was just fastest in the first session and is currently ahead in the second. Alonso was best-of-the-rest in FP1 (1.7secs behind the Mercedes) but has had some sort of engine failure in FP2. Williams didn't do much running in the first session due to a tweak to their bodywork resulting in Bottas' engine cover getting the f**k outta there on one of the straights, and now they seem to be pretty average in the second session. Bearing in mind they were predicted to be the ones to challenge Mercedes in the race it's not looking that promising, although they're usually pretty off the pace in practise anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 It's pretty sad how Mclaren have dealt with this situation, Button has been a loyal servant to the team and is being treated in what I see as not the most professional manner. If this weekend is going to be his last weekend in an F1 car (for a while at least) then I think it's wrong that he is being denied the send off that he deserves. They mentioned in the BBC practice coverage that Alonso may be bringing some more sponsorship money with him, that could increase the possibility of Button staying as they could afford his larger retainer. Also read that Audi may be considering coming to F1 in 2016? Button to Audi in WEC for 2015 and then back in F1 with them for 2016? Unlikely, but would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 From what I've seen, that Audi thing is kind of looking like bullshit: This rumour has it’s tenth anniversary this year. There’s no substance to it. I managed to source the rumour to a single writer. The autoexpress one ran first, then the same author repeated the same in two other publications and from there it took off to other sites. There’s no sense in those rumours. Why should Audi, who have spent a fortune on developing a Diesel hybrid, give up all that to start over from scratch with a petrol? If anything Porsche has an engine that’d be much closer to F1 spec. That was from a pretty clued up guy who's worked for some of the top teams before as an engineer. Was the Alonso sponsorship stuff Santander related? I thought they were sticking with Ferrari even though they'd originally got involved with them as a sponsor of Alonso. I see at Abu Dhabi there's not a hell of a lot of interest in adhering to track limits. Massive run-offs in "Who gives a f**k about lines?" shocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yea, the Porsche line is definitely the more obvious at the moment, but I can't help thinking that the group would rather have the Audi name in there. We'll see, I guess. I definitely see one of the two entering in 2016/17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewEH1 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Why would Audi join F1? There is no benefit and potential for massive lost of money. Edit: Or any of the VAG? Edited November 21, 2014 by AndrewEH1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Why would anyone join F1? Development, branding, kudos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewEH1 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 That's what their WEC programs are for? You only get the kudos if you win, the brand will suffer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 ...especially if Renault, Ferrari and Honda throw their toys out of the pram and push for a total unfreeze for 2016. That'll basically just end up with people throwing shitloads of money at the engines meaning that for anyone looking to join in that year they'll be instantly haemorrhaging money for what would probably be an uncompetitive car initially. It'll also depend on how much Ecclestone's driven F1 into the ground by then too as if it's not really seen as being a prestigious series there's less incentive to get in there. Regarding branding and shit, I would assume that Audi wouldn't want to kind of weaken their brand image by having a 'weaker' team in F1 taking away the attention on their already well established WEC team. I think Mercedes have shown that unless there's solid integration between the engine supplier and the car development team you won't have as competitive a package. A lot of Red Bull's issues have come about due to not really taking on board Renault's spec for engine cooling, and not having the same level of contact with engineers slows development too (which Vettel mentioned recently). Speaking of: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I don't think they'd touch it unless they'd been developing something behind the scenes for a long time, and were willing to chuck enough cash at it to be top. The branding from being top of WEC (which they've pretty much maxed out) and F1 would be huge. Can't really deny that Domenicalli (sp?) moving there isn't a hint... Sure, he could be useful in other areas, but that recruitment along rings alarm bells for me – regardless of those original articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 That's kind of what I mean though - the rules for 2016 are pretty up in the air at the moment (as it seems like most are writing off 2015 to push for a majority vote for an unfreeze in 2016-18) so any money they'd spent on development so far could basically be for nothing. I can't really see them coming in cold and instantly being successful unless they buy-out an existing team (which they might be able to do if Red Bull drop Toro Rosso), so it just seems like it'd be a pretty big gamble for what would potentially not be much reward. The main selling point of being involved in F1 is being able to transfer the technology to road cars, but they've already got a solid outlet for that with their WEC setup. Aside from that I don't think they'd really get much out of being in F1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I guess we'll see. I think a major point we've missed so far is that we're talking about motorsport departments. Those egos can't be stroked enough. In other news then. F1 thread regulars, who's going to be champion? Not sure who will have watched or kept an eye on the practise yet, so I won't mention it. Just intrigued which way people think it'll go. Also, anyone hate this double points shit as much as me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The thing that annoys me more about double points is the people saying that they haven't affected anything. While that's true in the sense that it would have gone down to the last race no matter what because Hamilton is under 25 points ahead, it's not true in the sense that if there were no double points there'd be a lot less pressure on Hamilton's finishing position for this race. They've been dropped for the future now though so that's all good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete.M Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sort of agree about double points. They need to find other ways to keep the competition close. I'm predicting Merc and Williams to still be the fastest next season. Honda and Renault engined cars will continue to have a painful disadvantage. These mega complicated V6 turbo's are effectively pricing out the smaller teams. They really need to put a strict limit on the cost of those units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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