FoxRacer Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Let the pic speaks for itself;PPI find it a bit similar to chris king ringdrive system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) Those are very small notches on the ring so those springs best be f**king strong!EDIT: in fact, i don't reckon that'll be any good for trials at all. Obviously i've not seen it up close, but the ring drives on kings use the riders pedal strength to force the rings together, i can't see these springs being anywhere near strong enough to generate the same amount of force, and with a smaller contact area than a king too. Edited March 4, 2008 by Krisboats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe@Onza Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) Hey, My Dad might correct me on this one but we were shown this hub a while ago and asked the factory if it would withstand trials and they didn't seem to keen on the idea.Its been done by a company called Chosen. We do quite a bit of work with them, I like their ideas and the quality is really good.Cheers Edited March 4, 2008 by Joe@Onza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafu26 Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 it would be possble to angle the teeth in the same way as a chris king though. however there wouldn't be as much pawl/teeth contact. put another couple of pawls in and it might be strong enough. cool idea though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 the ring would have to be titaniuw to not strip under the forces of trials...and the springs would have to be insanely strong to force the pawls to engage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryallmaster Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 it would be possble to angle the teeth in the same way as a chris king though. however there wouldn't be as much pawl/teeth contact. put another couple of pawls in and it might be strong enough. cool idea though.My name is Matt and I do an Engineering Degree..............haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 the ring would have to be titaniuw to not strip under the forces of trials...and the springs would have to be insanely strong to force the pawls to engageIf it were titanium it would just be lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 the ring drives on kings use the riders pedal strength to force the rings together, i can't see these springs being anywhere near strong enough to generate the same amount of force, and with a smaller contact area than a king too.The teeth certainly look a bit on the puny side... and why only 2 'pawls'? Looks like you could squeeze 3 in quite happily or even 4. I don't think the spring is what makes the hub 'lock' though- the 'pawl' type things doesn't actually rotate as with normal hub systems, it rides up the ramp and when the rider puts pressure on the drive the teeth will interlock and be pulled more tightly together. The spring is simply to keep the teeth in loose contact while freewheeling until power is required. That's the way I can see it working.Edit: and yeah, you'd want the drive ring/pawls to be steel rather than Ti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Looks fun! Make it more trials worthy and it'll probably sell....to trials riders like.Its a nice new idea and seems sound for less strenuous disciplines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Poyzer @ Onza Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 This is actually nothing like the King system. It is just a variation on a standard ratchet and pawl system.And there is no way on earth that this will stand up to trials. Trust me, Joe and myself have had this whole mechanism in our hands. I think it was actually designed for road racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 This is pretty much what industry 9 do in their hubs, the only difference being that the i9 hubs have offset pawls, so only half the pawls engage at a given point. This may seem worse, but it has the advantage that the notches for the ratchet can be made a lot deeper. I'd have to look at it more carefully, but I wouldn't trust that hub to take trials loads as it's too easy for the small ridges on the pawls to either get dirty and not engage properly or to round off and not engage at all. With Chris kings all 72 teeth on the drive washers engage every time the hub engages, so the load is transferred over a greater number of splines (And they're still only willing to put 72 engagements on the hub and still quite sensitive to contamination). I'd go with the i9 hubs over the ones shown, but Chris King is a lot more proven. If you want to try one get it on an XC bike first or preferably get someone you know who rides their bike loads harder than you to try it first and wait 6 months to see how they get on before buying one ...Do not buy 2007 XTR hubs (36 engagements) anyway - The previous incarnation (16 engagements) was indestructible used for trials or XC, I snapped the axle in a rear 2007 hub in under a year on an XC bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-t Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 This is actually nothing like the King system. It is just a variation on a standard ratchet and pawl system.And there is no way on earth that this will stand up to trials. Trust me, Joe and myself have had this whole mechanism in our hands. I think it was actually designed for road racing.Quoted for the truth. It's a good idea like, but it will never work like a King The 'toothed pawl' idea seems a bit too farfetched and precise. These hubs are going to be have to be very technically sound and sturdy. The springs will have to be very strong indeed (as mentioned) and also a few more pawls got have been used to add to the rigidness (that it supposedly allready has). I wouldn't put faith in one because 2 pawls that have to engage so precicely cant be that srong and dependant.Whats going to happen if one of the 2 doesn't engage properly and your relying on one pawl? can't see it woking i'm affraid and even if it did wouldn't put my faith in it. Yes My face isn't pretty, but i like my teeth how they are thankyou very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 If it were titanium it would just be lighter.And cooler. People often foget that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 and wear very very quickly....people have funny ideas about Ti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Thomson Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Possibly the worst bit of PR ever? Could have spent a bit of time making sure it was correct english! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Quoted for the truth. It's a good idea like, but it will never work like a King The 'toothed pawl' idea seems a bit too farfetched and precise. These hubs are going to be have to be very technically sound and sturdy. The springs will have to be very strong indeed (as mentioned) and also a few more pawls got have been used to add to the rigidness (that it supposedly allready has). I wouldn't put faith in one because 2 pawls that have to engage so precicely cant be that srong and dependant.Whats going to happen if one of the 2 doesn't engage properly and your relying on one pawl? can't see it woking i'm affraid and even if it did wouldn't put my faith in it. Yes My face isn't pretty, but i like my teeth how they are thankyou very much Most hubs and freewheel engage in sets of 2 pawls.But yeah it doesnt look to be good enough for trials and onza comfirmed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Poyzer @ Onza Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Possibly the worst bit of PR ever? Could have spent a bit of time making sure it was correct english!Oh believe me, that is quite good for Taiwan. I have seen much, much worse than that. You do have to give them credit for having a go at producing something in a totally alien language. Many Taiwanese people speak English but don't write it so well. Google translator has a lot to answer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sixstreet Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 and wear very very quickly....people have funny ideas about Ti I have the same frustration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burgess Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Here's another hub that might be of interest (Probably not trials rated, but 120 engagement points same as i9 hubs): http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_inf...;products_id=81The same website does some very cheap trials Magura pads too. I paid discobrakes twice as much for the red ones shown on the website and they're fantastic (If very loud). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 http://www.superstarcomponents.com/BottomB...etProduct2.htmllooks just like my echo bb.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 http://www.superstarcomponents.com/BottomB...etProduct2.htmllooks just like my echo bb....shame it doesnt have a price for it though...does anyone have apicture of a chris king hub cut away..as i have no idea what one looks like to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) shame it doesnt have a price for it though...does anyone have apicture of a chris king hub cut away..as i have no idea what one looks like to be honestTadaaa! You cant really see how it works from that photo but it has a helical spline inside the hub shell and a sprung ring driver that slides inside the driveshell. When you pedal forwards the ring driver slides inside the hub along the helical spline and engages the ratchet tooth ring that is attached to the hubshell. When you stop putting force through the drive shell the spring forces the drive rings apart and the ratchet disengages. The high engagement is due to the number of teeth on the ratchet.This means that the more force you put into the rotation the harder it grips - kings will only slip if the preload is set incorrectly or its not bedded or serviced in properly Edited April 8, 2008 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 If you can work out the ring drive mechanism from that cut-away, you're a genius. That basically shows nothing of the engagement system shame it doesnt have a price for it though...http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_inf...;products_id=31£29.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) I cheated and learnt how the ring drive works when I took it apart and serviced it after buying my discotech hub from ben travis Mechanical design engineer with a very inquisitive mind - have to take things apart to find out how they work, occasionally the still work after Ive put them back together aswell Edited April 8, 2008 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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