Ladd Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 It's good to see more riders having a hand on shaping the new products out there! The futures' bright Some of the recent developments for products have sparked me off to having a more creative period of design during Jan. Innovation is contagious! The CNCed Vee idea has been suggested and is a good one! Mostly I've been carefully picking products to release where there is no or only one rival which I think can be improved on. I'm starting to see other approaches now though as the climate is evolving. It's actually good for the smaller firm when one company develops a monopoly because then riders are looking harder for those products with a different touch to stand out from the crowd. SteveI would like to see the Echo super trial tyres again they look soo pimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Anscombe Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Here it is!If the retro trend continues then maybe.....SteveThat was adams mod.......in southampton...........steve i beg you make them again pleasssssssssssssssss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Tom* Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 The size of threads in frames for 4 bolt mounts should be M6, people always seem to strip them, i wouldn't be that hard to do, bigger mounts on the frame and bigger holes in the clamps . . or steel inserts in the frame when you buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Since Magura have used M5 bolts for years, and the new Echo brakes I assume are the same for compatibility, it would be a bit of a gamble to change it now.Everyone running M5 now would need to switch over to the new system if they wanted a new frame, and I highly doubt that Magura would change their system for such a small market.Helicoiling in-house or so would be excellent, but it'd mean setting it all up, doing it all etc which is quite a change to make I'd imagineI'd like to see more frames with vee mounts available. None of the recent frames have had them as far as I'm aware, and there's currently a lot of riders running vee brakes on trials frames.I run a set of Heatsink V2 Vee Adaptors which are brilliant, but I think an all in one system would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Since Magura have used M5 bolts for years, and the new Echo brakes I assume are the same for compatibility, it would be a bit of a gamble to change it now.Everyone running M5 now would need to switch over to the new system if they wanted a new frame, and I highly doubt that Magura would change their system for such a small market.Helicoiling in-house or so would be excellent, but it'd mean setting it all up, doing it all etc which is quite a change to make I'd imagineI'd like to see more frames with vee mounts available. None of the recent frames have had them as far as I'm aware, and there's currently a lot of riders running vee brakes on trials frames.I run a set of Heatsink V2 Vee Adaptors which are brilliant, but I think an all in one system would be great.Aha! I'm saying nothing I'd love to see a return to slightly higher top tubes and seats. Let's all get into the retro thing now that crazy low stand over has been taken to the limit! I still like having a perch to sit on, maybe it's old age!Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Aha! I'm saying nothing I love this man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Tom* Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yeh i see you point about changing the bolt size, i can't see magura ever changing, but if frames were ready helicoiled from the factory and the company charged an extra 30 or so quid, per frame, i'd happily pay that, just to save all the hassle of re-taping threads or helicoiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben John-Hynes Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Aha! I'm saying nothing you've got something planned!tell...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yeh i see you point about changing the bolt size, i can't see magura ever changing, but if frames were ready helicoiled from the factory and the company charged an extra 30 or so quid, per frame, i'd happily pay that, just to save all the hassle of re-taping threads or helicoiling.Helicoiling itself costs very little - you can pick up a kit for around £20, and that will include maybe 10 or so inserts, plus all the tools. Once the inserts are gone (if you should need to do a few frames, for example) you can pick up new ones for a few quid.The markup on frames (eg, manufacturing costs vs retail) is quite silly in some cases, I'm sure that it could be factored into that cost somehow, but the feasibility of it is where I think the downfall lies, which is unfortunate.It's probably possible, but without knowing a bit more about the place they're made, and processes involved it's hard to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Tom* Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yeah I spose so, just seems to be a really silly downside to all the frames that are designed for maguras. Meh it'll happen or it won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yeah, it is a bit of a problem it would seem, although a lot of the time it holds up just fine.Who knows!Vee mounts, on the other hand, are fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zordon Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 It's good to see more riders having a hand on shaping the new products out there! The futures' bright Some of the recent developments for products have sparked me off to having a more creative period of design during Jan. Innovation is contagious! The CNCed Vee idea has been suggested and is a good one! Mostly I've been carefully picking products to release where there is no or only one rival which I think can be improved on. I'm starting to see other approaches now though as the climate is evolving. It's actually good for the smaller firm when one company develops a monopoly because then riders are looking harder for those products with a different touch to stand out from the crowd. SteveCnc is not as important as putting both arms and levers on cartridge bearings. I wonder why only overpriced avid ultimates can have such bearings. I'd love to have a heatsink CERAMIC MAGNESIUM rim in my mod to match the heatsink adaptors and coustvees pads. Until this you cannot call braking sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Cnc is not as important as putting both arms and levers on cartridge bearings. I wonder why only overpriced avid ultimates can have such bearings. I'd love to have a heatsink CERAMIC MAGNESIUM rim in my mod to match the heatsink adaptors and coustvees pads. Until this you cannot call braking sorted To be fair - when I ran an SD7 vee prior to my Ultimate, there wasn't noticably more resistance to a great extent, as the bushing system seemed to work pretty effectively.Maybe if I went back to it now from the Ultimate it'd be more apparent though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMack Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Helicoiling itself costs very little - you can pick up a kit for around £20, and that will include maybe 10 or so inserts, plus all the tools.Failing that, just sweet talk a really great friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Cnc is not as important as putting both arms and levers on cartridge bearings. I wonder why only overpriced avid ultimates can have such bearings. I'd love to have a heatsink CERAMIC MAGNESIUM rim in my mod to match the heatsink adaptors and coustvees pads. Until this you cannot call braking sorted It's great to hear that you're running both the adapters and Coust Vee pads! Great set-up Nice remark too - that made me smile!Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidehop Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Notice how Steve is the only man to take ideas from rider and contribute to this thread shop wise? Great man in my experiences. Also I think Ads at tarty is the man to talk to if you want deng to be spoken too. He is also a dam good guy and will probs be scouting this thread at some point in the morning.Aidan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-t Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Dan Ko ( trials-uk ) Is bringing the same rims out with a few difference's in about 2 months i have a pair of cnc scooped echo rims and there mint Anytime Dan give you a done by/length of time times that by about 3 and thats the answer. He still hasn't got the shop sorted yet!Come on Dan!Notice how Steve is the only man to take ideas from rider and contribute to this thread shop wise? Great man in my experiences. Also I think Ads at tarty is the man to talk to if you want deng to be spoken too. He is also a dam good guy and will probs be scouting this thread at some point in the morning.Aidan.Not wrong there mate. Steves a legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavyn. Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I've always wanted mounts for maguras to just be holes all the way through instead of having them tapped, that way you can insert a bolt from the bottom up though the magura mount and secure it with a nut and washer, completley failure free you can't round the threads, you can get much more torque on the nut and if you round the nut you can just cut it off and put a new bolt through. I never came up with it btw one of my mates dads suggested it when I rounded my mounts and i don't expect it to ever be manufactured but if i round my threads again I'm doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scarlet Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yea, putting a nut on the end of 4 Bolt would have saved helicoiling my threads.Also think how much quicker it will be to tighten up your brake, unless you have ratchet spanners with an allen key head, doing up 4 bolts with a normal allen key takes forever.I think Deng should pioneer a splined freewheel with splined section on the cranks, just like the fixed cog on the mod wheels.I mean, the centre piece stays fixed to the crank and the teeth move when freewheeling, so it would work.I just hate having to remove my freewheel from a threaded crank, its a bit silly as whenever you ride it you are doing up the freewheel more so.I ruined a perfectly good Eno freewheel this way, due to the tabs not being deep enough to remove it (thus resulting in damaged tabs), as a result freewheel being stupidly tight on the crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yea, putting a nut on the end of 4 Bolt would have saved helicoiling my threads.Also think how much quicker it will be to tighten up your brake, unless you have ratchet spanners with an allen key head, doing up 4 bolts with a normal allen key takes forever.I think Deng should pioneer a splined freewheel with splined section on the cranks, just like the fixed cog on the mod wheels.I mean, the centre piece stays fixed to the crank and the teeth move when freewheeling, so it would work.I just hate having to remove my freewheel from a threaded crank, its a bit silly as whenever you ride it you are doing up the freewheel more so.I ruined a perfectly good Eno freewheel this way, due to the tabs not being deep enough to remove it (thus resulting in damaged tabs), as a result freewheel being stupidly tight on the crank.You're spot on there! This is something that I've been thinking about too. Maybe because free wheels/spockets are replaced relatively infrequently it hasn't been picked up on. Riders know full well about the issues though! Take the hub free body spline and carry it onto cranks & free wheels. Free wheels could be used front or rear with benefits for both positions - Front: Ease of replacement via lockring (no more tightening into position from riding) Rear: adjustability for chainline, wheel choice (non-trials hubs/wheels can be used)It would be very useful to have the ability to fine tune the rear free wheel position on a standard hub free body for the perfect chain line. After all, getting lateral adjustment at the front is limited in range and resolution. (BB spacers) Using the shimano spline would be good for compatability, (the new splined free wheel could be used on any old hub which would resurrect old hubs which are burly but don't have enough clicks - simply weld or lock the hub out from rotating backwards.) I think that as a proper Trials product, a new more burly spline should be created, especially since the cranks are likely to be Alu (softer than steel). This would be an easy modification to products for Deng or someone with a Far Eastern contact into free wheel factories to produce. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Monty also need to pick up on this, my freewheels were a b*****d to swap a few weeks ago, and the sprocket will not come off, so I can't try a 13t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zordon Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 To be fair - when I ran an SD7 vee prior to my Ultimate, there wasn't noticably more resistance to a great extent, as the bushing system seemed to work pretty effectively.Maybe if I went back to it now from the Ultimate it'd be more apparent though.It's not all about resistance - except Ultimates, every vee I've seen had play - some bigger, some smaller. It makes pads hit the rim not perfectly flat when you are braking forwards/backwards and they don't stay flat as they constantly round off themselves. After 1,5 year of using Cousts with Ultimates, my pads are still flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Would be cool to see if he did reply, what the reply was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 It's not all about resistance - except Ultimates, every vee I've seen had play - some bigger, some smaller. It makes pads hit the rim not perfectly flat when you are braking forwards/backwards and they don't stay flat as they constantly round off themselves. After 1,5 year of using Cousts with Ultimates, my pads are still flat.Yeah, I see your point, though I've never had this issue with vees, only maguras.I would like to see more arms available with the bearing system and CNCd arms, though on a £10 brake like a dewhore or SD5 etc it's not such an issue. There still needs to be a range of price options out there to suit different budgets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Winton. Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Monty also need to pick up on this, my freewheels were a b*****d to swap a few weeks ago, and the sprocket will not come off, so I can't try a 13t. dont do it, if anything 18-12 is too light! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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