JoNnY__Mc Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Heyup, firstly im using:sd7 leversd7 armscoustsink vee padsheatsink adaptorsclarks cableecho 07 rim with sharp grindProblem 1# BRAKE SLIPS GOING FORWARD When I first set my vee brake up it worked really well straight away! Had loads of bite, lock and made a nice noise going backwards and forwards. After a couple of weeks the grind worn and the brake made less noise and started to slip abit going forwards, but NEVER going backwards. Sometimes the brake slipping meant me falling backwards.To try to combat this problem I reground my wheel with a nice sharp grind and made sure the pads were set up straight and so they hit the rim at the same time. Some of the noise come back and the brake worked abit better, but then after a few rides the same problem has returned, and it feels as if the grind has worn really quickly again (even though its still sharp). I really have no idea what I can do, I don't see the point in regrinding the wheel because the grind on it is only a few days old, and the pads are less than a month old. So what is the problem here? It works REALLY well going backwards and then works terribly going forwards. Problem 2# BRAKE FEELS SHIT When I first set my vee brake up I used an older sd7 lever and a really crap cable I made up from a combination of a tescos outer and some random makro bike inner. I worked really well straight away, very light at the lever and very stiff. On my first proper ride one of the pins snapped in the spring/arms which I then bodged using peice of allen key. Worked well after that.I then had to order a new lever and cable from tart because my finger was hurting from using the lever I first used. When it come the lever felt really smooth and easy to pull and the cable also. But when fitted to the bike the whole set up felt hard to pull and not nice at all (felt like a really poorly oil bled maggie with sticky pistons). The brake is oiled and greased in the right places so I can't work out why it feels like it does.The combination of these two problems makes me want to go back to a magura... for the amount of money I have spent on this set up, It should work and feel better. Any help and suggestions would really be apreciated.Cheers Jonny.Edit: spelling Edited January 17, 2008 by JoNnY__Mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Problem 1: That's just how vees work unfortunately.Problem 2: What greases/lubes have you used? Noodle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoNnY__Mc Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Problem 1: That's just how vees work unfortunately.Yeah but... Surely it shouldn't be so bad like 3 rides after a fresh grind? Literally... I'm scared of it slipping when I'm hopping forwards or doing a gap... I have landed on my arse a few times already!Problem 2: What greases/lubes have you used? Noodle?Problem 1: But why will it have gone so bad, It worked amazingly like 2 weeks ago Problem 2: Not sure, Phil helped me do it... but it IS all smooth...Come to think of it it really could be the noodle, I will buy a new one from somewhere I reckon I get the feeling it might be the arms... They have got gradually worse since I rode leeds and the pin things snapped. Really not sure because the cable isn't tight (it looks to be slack) when the brake is at rest/isn't pulled I thought it should look tight at all times... but when I adjust the little screws on the arms so that the cable looks tighter, the brake feels even harder to pull.I hope that makes sense! Edited January 17, 2008 by JoNnY__Mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam-pantera Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 the only thing i can think of is that the retention of the v brake arms is to tight ( in simple terms the little pin is in the wrong hole ) i have my brake on the lowist setting with the grub screws all the way in . could also be the clarks cable i find it very stretchy for a while . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Anscombe Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 PROBLEM IS coust sinks......found that once you get half way through the compound it gets pretty crap for some reason.....jonny listen to me and go for the red compound pad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abtrials Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 i am sorry tarty but i dont aggree that is what vee's are like.i run dual v with joy pad on the back , this is by far the best brake i have ever had, i have tried various pads on a magura and nothing compairs. i alos run fat pad on the front, and the same againbut i have a ultimate v on the back and it makes the brake so much stiffer which prevents the problem of it working beter one waymy advice get an ultimate, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 i am sorry tarty but i dont aggree that is what vee's are like.It is true that they are much better backwards than forwards though, both with lock and bite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoNnY__Mc Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 i am sorry tarty but i dont aggree that is what vee's are like.i run dual v with joy pad on the back , this is by far the best brake i have ever had, i have tried various pads on a magura and nothing compairs. i alos run fat pad on the front, and the same againbut i have a ultimate v on the back and it makes the brake so much stiffer which prevents the problem of it working beter one waymy advice get an ultimate,Cheers for your advice, I will look out for one in the classifieds.It is true that they are much better backwards than forwards though, both with lock and bite?Seems to be right from my experience PROBLEM IS coust sinks......found that once you get half way through the compound it gets pretty crap for some reason.....jonny listen to me and go for the red compound pad Didn't mean to ignore you, will do when I get some dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I get the feeling it might be the arms... They have got gradually worse since I rode leeds and the pin things snapped. Really not sure because the cable isn't tight (it looks to be slack) when the brake is at rest/isn't pulled I thought it should look tight at all times... but when I adjust the little screws on the arms so that the cable looks tighter, the brake feels even harder to pull.I hope that makes sense!The cable should be tight(ish). Could you post a pic?Adjusting the screws on the arms. If you screw them in, it puts more tension on the spring and will feel harder to pull. If you think the cable is too loose, either screw out the barrel adjuster on the lever or pull the cable tighter, where it is clamped onto the top of the brake arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 It is true that they are much better backwards than forwards though, both with lock and bite?I find no difference on mine. Excellent bite, ridiculous hold!Ultimate arms, SD7 lever, Coustsinks, Heatsink adaptors, Linear Slic/cheap inner. I run the smoothest grind ever (smoother than a rim given a light grind over a year ago and ridden lots. Didn't even take all the paint off!)Jonny, perhaps try toeing in the pads a touch, may make all the difference. If not stick them back to how they were again.Sometimes, if you can't find the source of the problem, it makes life easier to take it all off, and set it back up again. Lube up the inner/outer, sort out spring tension, flatten/straighten pads up ok etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Whenever this has happened with me mate, taking the pads out and sanding the surface flat always sorts it out. Unfotunately you do lose a bit of material, but it almost always sorts the problem and riding with slightly less material but a trustworthy brake is better than leaving it how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoNnY__Mc Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Cheers I will take everyones advice and have a good proper look at it, some time and effort will probably get it running better! Thanks to everyone for the advise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjibs Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 i must say i was surprised to read that your having problems given your brake setup - it should be solid as. Iv been a vee user and lover for years now and just recently changed back to maguras... Vees definately were better performance. Im using the coust pads in the maggies and used coust pads with vees... and the vees were much better! More control ie for manuals etc, better modulation (oviously!) more hold as we all know, the only plus for the maggies is the on/off'ness lol. but it takes a while to realise that as soon as the pads hit the rim... your going to STOP immediately. Anyways I thought id tell you my vee setup and maintenance that made my vees the best feeling/working/performance brakes iv ever had.Similar setup to you..avid ultimate arms, xtr levers, odyssey or xtr outer, coustsinks, salsa booster (i did notice that the performance improved noticeably witha booster... so couldbe worth looking at)Wash out the outter with wd40 or some other spray that cleans out grease etc. Grab a blower off a lbs compressor and blow out the grease. Then drop a FEW drops of finishline wet or similar down the inside of the outter and use a good inner (teflon coating is best - reduces friction and helps keep cable from splitting/fraying) put a drop or two on your fingers and run the length of the inner between them to coat a light amount of finishline etc. Make sure the outter is cut perfectly square, if not compression will occur around the noodle area. Do the same to the noodle as you did to the outer. Pads..Set the pads up so not only do they hit SQUARE ON - flat! (u will feel it as 1 clean hit when pad touches rim... then bolt up and make sure when you look at it from behind the brake pad bolts are in line when you pull brakes on. this way the force is being directed exactly accross the rim in line with the pad on the other side). Set the arms with just enough tension to take up slack at lever. This will ensure the smoothest easiest operation of brake. I also put a drop of lube aroudn the brake pivot area, and the pivot area of the brake lever itself. makes a world of difference to a smooth and quiet brake. My rim was the same as yours, super flat (approx 9mths since grind) and it worked incredibly. I hope this helps ... sorry if it sounds like basic stuff. I just wanted to help because ireally believe in vees being the best brakes - simple, cheap and easy to maintain. I replace my inner about 3-4 times a year (a bit excessive but i take no chances ) and outter about 2ce a year.All the best with it ! If i can help in anyway feel free to pm me ... Ali C and Felix Mucke are both vee experts aswell and good for asking about setups etc.danny.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Smith! Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 wing a booster on see if it helps? might take away the noise though, set up sounds fine.Matx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoNnY__Mc Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) VERY USEFUL INFORMATION!!!Cheers to everyone for the advice, specially Danny for his detailed guide! After a quick play tonight I found the answer to Problem 2! The springs in the arms have been overly stretched which makes the brake very hard to pull at the lever! To fix this I undone the small screws all the way so that they dont affect the spring tension, I then bent the springs back so that they are springy enough to only just return the arms/lever back to where they should be. I then used the small screws again to tweak the brake so that both pads are even distances from the rim and so they both hit at the same time! This made the brake feel MUCH MUCH lighter at the lever.I also screwed out the barrel adjuster on the lever to pull the cable tighter.Problem 2 seems to be sorted, and I am unsure as to whether it has fixed Problem 1 at the same time because I cannot go out and test it. I will look at sorting out Problem 1 tomorrow and also tweak it more.Once again thanks to everyone for their help and input.More updates tomorrow! Edited January 17, 2008 by JoNnY__Mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaltrials Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) I'm pretty sure it's that right arm giving it that sluggish feel.I checked the inner cable and noodle and both seem pretty smooth although could use a touch a grease .But the springs on the V aren't too great. Bring it around again and we'll take it apart a bit better see if we can loosen it up.V is always worse going forward, the pads are too long for my liking. Also, there are too many spacers on the pads, you want the V's to be parallel when they hit, and a booster will help a little.Phil. Edited January 18, 2008 by totaltrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Gibson Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Glad to hear you got the problem sorted! I have trouble with mine, as I cannot get them to hit square, so the pads have wore with a angle. Thats the only problem really, Still got Tones of hold, Really like Vees Have any problems get Heatsink reds! MInt pads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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