Global Warming

[Greetings]

I don't care about it at all. Somebody else will have to live with it, not us (selfish, isn't it?). And even if the sea level goes up within the next 50 years, I live far away from it.

2 years ago, we had a very cold winter over here, I believe it was really cold in the UK as well. Anyway, we had temperatures dropping to -20 quite often. A year ago we only had about 10 days of snow throughout the whole winter, the temperature was above 7 degrees most of the time and sometimes it would reach even 13. Some morons believe that this is due to global warming. What a load of bullshit. So 2 years ago we had global cooling, now we've got global warming? Things don't change that quickly. The only worrying thing is that global warming doesn't only affect temperatures, it affects the amount of storms, winds etc. Throughout the past few years the weather has been more and more vicious with hurricanes, floods and even tornadoes. That's not good.

Anyway, I'm all for it. Winters are way too cold over here, it's time for a change :]

Edited January 15, 2008 by Inur

[James-M]

I was annoyed when I was working the other day. The weather was nice, then suddenly started terrentially raining, then it stopped, and five minutes later started pouring down again. My boss says "How can people say Global Warming isn't happening". Due to some rain?

[br3n]

A lot of interesting debates on trials forum, liking it!

I dont really know enough about global warming to be able to form my own opinion, earth is warming up, tidal currents changing etc etc that is fact... The unsure thing is a reason why. I think some people are getting confused about bits of information they hear and just stringing them together, saying the torries created it is a laughable statement, they merely exploited it - get it right.

I dont think it takes a scientist to realise pumping out masses of co2 and reducing the things that rely on it (ie trees/plants/plankton!) is a great idea.... to what extent who knows.

[MadManMike]

I don't care about it at all. Somebody else will have to live with it, not us (selfish, isn't it?). And even if the sea level goes up within the next 50 years, I live far away from it.

Quoted due to complete agreement

[OD404]

I have a number of views regarding Climate Change (kinda like the way the name has had to change because many area aren't actually getting warmer).

I agree that there will be a delicate balance where the climate is concerned. It is a complex system and like almost any other complex system, it will react to change. The level of change needed to make the system react however, is a complete unknown and I would go so far as to say that it is unknown to everyone, even the scientists who's livelihoods depend on the existence of man-made climate change.

Changes in our climate are inevitable, historic records show that Britain has experienced far colder and far hotter weather that we have today. But again, how much we are affecting this really isn't known.

All the evidence that comes out supporting man-made change seemingly has evidence that counteracts it, proving otherwise. Similarly the same can be said for the evidence produced to disprove man-made change. As yet with the amount of evidence gathered thus far, all I can say is that we are actually no closer to saying definitively that we are having an effect. All we have is new evidence saying that our climates are changing, and that kinda goes without saying in my opinion. "Eggs is eggs" and we (the taxpayer) are just paying for new fancy ways of saying that. I will however welcome any study that can actually prove one way or another, but until then I will sit on the fence with the view that reducing emissions and our consumption of natural resources is undoubtedly a good thing, but whether we are responsible for the current shifts in climate I don't know and I challenge anyone who thinks they know different.

I work for one of the world largest manufacturers of diesel engines (from light duty automotive to high horsepower industrial applications). The amount of money that we spend each year developing our products to meet increasingly stringent emissions regulations while decreasing fuel consumption is staggering. Yet the government and media constantly bash the automotive sector as if it is the only contributer to the supposed man-made changes which I feel is extremely unfair. It has already been proven that many of the new automotive diesel engines being released in the next year actually have the capacity through their use of aftertreatment systems to make the air is cities such as LA cleaner.

Too much of what we get fed by the media and the government in this matter is just hype and in many cases not linked to any sort of scientific or technical data.

Hmm, bit of a rant, but I think people need to actually look at the evidence for themselves instead of what they are being force fed to make a more informed decision. And maybe give a thought to those of us who ARE making a difference instead of just blaming us for making the vehicles that in their mind are causing all this.

[The Stig]

Well as the great eemy clarckson said recently 'Carbon footprint? I can't have one, i drive everywhere'.

This whole GW larck annoys me as we are meant to evolve and yes it is forcing us to make hydrogren cars which emitt only water and heat, but i'm sure the boffs will fond out that water now kills the earth. I mean the Bugatti Veyron will now be the only car in history to be that good!! There will be no more due to the stupid emmssion shizzle. Oh and the army have gone green (all who watch top gear will know this) The army want to watch their emmissions.

My view is we moved on from the stone age, not because we ran out of stone but cus we found stuff better "oil" "electricity", Let us live and evolve then we will find a new source, you can't rush evolution.

Tom

EDIT: Oh and bring the heat on!! I want this rain to go already!1

Edited January 15, 2008 by Boss

[Tomm]

I find it hard to believe that we are not responsible for climate change. If you're suggesting that big business has a vested interest in covering this up (and I'd agree), surely you'd get evidence against climate change from dubious sources. Similarly, I can't think of any big business who would gain from discovering climate change WAS a product of our pollution - so no one will fund research to prove this.

Considering the scientific evidence suggests that climate change IS occurring means (to me) that even the large companies with big budgets can't disprove it. Ergo - it's happening.

My current feelings on the matter: It's the earth and we owe it everything. We rely on it to live etc. f**king about with it will most likely end in tears...

[Caleb]

Well as the great Jimmy Carr said recently 'Carbon footprint? I can't have one, i drive everywhere'.

This whole GW larck annoys me as we are meant to evolve and yes it is forcing us to make hydrogren cars which emitt only water and heat, but i'm sure the boffs will fond out that water now kills the earth. I mean the Bugatti Veyron will now be the only car in history to be that good!! There will be no more due to the stupid emmssion shizzle. Oh and the army have gone green (all who watch top gear will know this) The army want to watch their emmissions.

My view is we moved on from the stone age, not because we ran out of stone but cus we found stuff better "oil" "electricity", Let us live and evolve then we will find a new source, you can't rush evolution.

Tom

EDIT: Oh and bring the heat on!! I want this rain to go already!1

[The Stig]

Think you will find it is jeremy clarckson

[OD404]

I find it hard to believe that we are not responsible for climate change. If you're suggesting that big business has a vested interest in covering this up (and I'd agree), surely you'd get evidence against climate change from dubious sources. Similarly, I can't think of any big business who would gain from discovering climate change WAS a product of our pollution - so no one will fund research to prove this.

Considering the scientific evidence suggests that climate change IS occurring means (to me) that even the large companies with big budgets can't disprove it. Ergo - it's happening.

My current feelings on the matter: It's the earth and we owe it everything. We rely on it to live etc. f**king about with it will most likely end in tears...

Thing is, big business does profit from climate change. How many new car ads now harp on about how clean their car is? Because this is such a hot topic and so many people are convinced beyond reasonable doubt that their car is the primary cause, they will spend money to buy the latest technology so they can e safe thinking they are helping (the fact they use a car has nothing to do with it of course).

I'm not saying it isn't happening, that's a forgone conclusion as far as I'm concerned. I'm just disputing that no-one is yet to prove whether we are or aren't the cause ergo I'm sitting on the fence.

The fact that we will be introducing our EPA and CARB Tier 4 compliant engines a whole year before the emissions laws change in 2010 will not only benefit the Earth, but also increase company profits as some of our competitors are still struggling with Tier 2.

There are some pretty narrow minded views on this subject, on both sides of the argument (not pointing to anyone in particular) and sometimes I wonder if they are born more out of people's need to feel self richeous (those vigorously claiming we're to blame) and an unwillingness to change their lifestyle (those claiming nothing is happening) than anything else.

[Caleb]

Think you will find it is jeremy clarckson

hmmm yeah comedian coming up with a joke or an old guy copying it?

tough one

Edited January 15, 2008 by Larry David

[ilikeriding]

i reckon its cows

should kill em

[anzo]

hmmm yeah comedian coming up with a joke or an old guy copying it?

tough one

Indeedy, one of the two jokes at the start of every 8 Out Of 10 Cats episode from many moons ago.

[ZeroMatt]

My current feelings on the matter: It's the earth and we owe it everything. We rely on it to live etc. f**king about with it will most likely end in tears...

We owe the earth nothing, this apparent global warming will alter it in no detremental way as it is merely part of a cycle of glaciation. It will still be in existence after the human race has been wiped out for many millions of years.

[OD404]

We owe the earth nothing, this apparent global warming will alter it in no detremental way as it is merely part of a cycle of glaciation. It will still be in existence after the human race has been wiped out for many millions of years.

Better give back that air you're breathing then...

The term detrimental really depend on what you are looking at. The earth, as far as being a body in space will be here whatever happens climate wise. The earth as a habitable environment for us and many other species, may not remain depending on what pans out. The climate system is so complex that we may already have done the damage required to alter our environment drastically before the phrase "global warming" was ever coined. Or on the other hand, this could all be happening through entirely natural triggers (volcanoes etc). The only thing that can be said for certain is that an undefineable amount of change is occuring for whatever reason and that reducing emissions, whether it has an effect on this change or not, is never a bad thing.

I for one am actually more concerned about the rate at which we use fossil fuels, as imo there is more credible evidence surrounding this matter.

[ZeroMatt]

The earth as a habitable environment for us and many other species, may not remain depending on what pans out. The climate system is so complex that we may already have done the damage required to alter our environment drastically before the phrase "global warming" was ever coined. Or on the other hand, this could all be happening through entirely natural triggers (volcanoes etc).

All this has happened before. I can almost guarantee that there will be some form of life somewhere on the planet whatever the outcome of this climate change. I mean before mammals and land animals there were invertebrates swimming round in the sea. Even before that when there was no oxygen in the atmosphere there were bacteria growing in the seas.

[OD404]

So you have no sense of self-preservation?

You are right in that we have gone through massive climate changes in the past, however due to the complexity of the system we are looking at, I can't see us accurately predicting what will happen in the future (we can't even predict tomorrow's weather without a large error margin), for all we know it might be 1000's of times worse than in the past, but it may also 1000's of times less serious. I don't feel comfortable making that prediction, and I can't see how any one can be.

Nevertheless this is an interesting discussion and kind of a pet topic of mine

[ZeroMatt]

Self preservation doesn't really come into it for me, I won't see the effects of climate change before I die really and this change was bound to happen as shown by the archealogical evidence so not fussed either way. Although were I to have children my tone would change as it's likely they will be affected by it and I wouldn't want to see them hurt. Is merely a case of prolonging the inevitable now.

[Sneakers O'Toole]

What will be the benfits of global warming? Surely there must be some? Increased boat sales and wellington boat sales maybe.

[Boswell]

Meh! dolphins will probably overthrow us in the end! But seriously guys thanks for the really interesting posts so far.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Boswell

[Tomm]

Thing is, big business does profit from climate change. How many new car ads now harp on about how clean their car is? Because this is such a hot topic and so many people are convinced beyond reasonable doubt that their car is the primary cause, they will spend money to buy the latest technology so they can e safe thinking they are helping (the fact they use a car has nothing to do with it of course).

Even though cars are big business, car manufacture is only a tiny percentage of all industry. I'd be interested to know if car manufacturers are doing better out of it anyway, I suspect not - there is much more emphasis on public transport and using your car less which is more important than a car that does 1mpg more than a competitor. But you may be right, people are idiots and don't realise the carbon footprint of manufacturing a new car (even a hybrid ) is pretty huge.

[anzo]

What will be the benfits of global warming? Surely there must be some? Increased boat sales and wellington boat sales maybe.

The majority of of England will be underwater...I live near Buxton...its not much of an issue for me

• Warmer climate
• Tourism will increase
• Easier to convert to hydra electricity
• Everyone will get a Grade 7 swimming certificate without excuse
• Property prices will drop in high/medium flood risk areas making easier housing for youths who don't give a shit about a bit of water
• End of mankind...no more work!

[1a2bcio8]

I'm not saying it isn't happening, that's a forgone conclusion as far as I'm concerned. I'm just disputing that no-one is yet to prove whether we are or aren't the cause ergo I'm sitting on the fence.

I share the fence sitting mentality to a degree, as in, from my position as a layman I can't look directly at the experimental evidence and pass critical judgment. However, you can assume when a a large portion of scientists are saying that something is happening, that this increases the probability of it being true, from your position.

Is the potential result of sitting on the fence in ambivalence worth the chance of what might go wrong? You could be still sitting there by the time it is too late, if indeed that is possible or hasn't already happened. If the chances of something happening was 50/50 and the negative result was totally detrimental to life on earth, or earth as life, wouldn't it be worth acting upon? I do understand the position of apathy, it is nicer not to think about things that involve hassle and no instant gratification, but when the time comes (if it does), then people are going to be feeling pretty crap, regardless of what the attitude they hold in the present. The only person who really doesn't care would literally be a psychopath, because it relates to a total inconsideration to those whom you love. I guess it's no different to smoking, drinking or eating badly though with regards to investing in your future health.

I'm not passing judgment though, I consider myself in this analysis. My position is that if we are to deal with these problems we require investing more money in science to counteract the negative aspects of the technology we use and benefit from. I don't want us to use technology less, because it carries with it so many benefits, in other regards.

We owe the earth nothing, this apparent global warming will alter it in no detremental way as it is merely part of a cycle of glaciation. It will still be in existence after the human race has been wiped out for many millions of years.

I don't think it's about owing or not owing. I think if we treat our environment well, remembering that we are separate and a part of that environment at the same time, it will feed back on us and benefit us. The more you love your environment, quite simply, the better you feel. This, I think, is highly logical. Or we can disregard our environment, pay no attention to it and put it in a condition where it becomes totally undesirable. In addition to missing out on experiencing positive feeling towards that environment, we will also suffer other problems such as a reduction in the quality and amount of resources we have to use.

[OD404]

Even though cars are big business, car manufacture is only a tiny percentage of all industry. I'd be interested to know if car manufacturers are doing better out of it anyway, I suspect not - there is much more emphasis on public transport and using your car less which is more important than a car that does 1mpg more than a competitor. But you may be right, people are idiots and don't realise the carbon footprint of manufacturing a new car (even a hybrid ) is pretty huge.

It's not just cars though. A large percentage of consumer goods are sold as being energy efficient (lower the so called carbon footprint). Companies want to be seen to be green even if they don't actually have much contribution (carbon neutral car insurance anyone?) as they are somehow seen to be better than the competition. The direct advantages aren't very many that is true, but the consumer is fickle so any advantage will generate profit.

Car manufacturers were feeling the squeeze on direct car sales profits way before all this, most cars these days don't make a profit. They make there money in after-sales support, servicing etc. So enticing people to their brand with a "greener" car will generate them a reasonable profit in the long run. Costs of cars will rise, the industry has already warned that, but the public reaction to this was interesting to say the least. People that would preach about us in the motor industry making a better effort to make cars and other vehicles cleaner also stated that they would not be prepared to pay even a little more for such a car given the choice. Slightly hypocritical I feel.

My situation is slightly different; we make the engines, so our customer rely on us to give them an engine that meets the right emissions targets, which gives us a little more flexibility price-wise.

And the hilarious thing with the hybrid car is that while it is more economical, it can actually be more polluting than a normal car as the engine in it will be run on a stop-start regime to charge the battery, meaning it won't generate the heat required in the exhaust (easily obtained with a standard engine running all the time) for 90% of emission reduction systems to actually function. They also don't tell you about the energy required to make and dispose of the battery cells which is substantial enough to make the energy used for production and scrapping a hybrid more than a standard car.

We're also finding with most emissions systems that in order to function, a slight increase in fuel consumption is required. So we are finding that there is going to be an inevitable trade off between climate-change and preserving our fossil fuels.

EDIT:

Rowly, I think you and I share exactly the same view. Though I feel I need to clarify my position slightly.

While I say I am sitting on the fence, this really only applies to whether I feel we are to blame or not. When it comes to whether we should do something to improve what we are doing I am all for it. I like to think I do my bit through my job designing engines that are less polluting as well as walking to work. What I don't agree with is people jumping the gun and saying that we are to blame because as yet no-one can prove it. We've not been industrialised as a planet long enough imo to say that what we are experiencing is a trend or just a blip in a far bigger trend.

[Skoze]

I've only been on this earth 14 years but i was having a good ol' think, (much like a seriously old dude would while sitting on the sofa etc.) in the car about the claims of how the sea levels will rise by huge amounts, and I decided that most of it is rather misleading/ confusing,

They say that all the ice will melt causing huge rises, but the only ice that will make a change to the sea levels is that on land, (which is what, just under a third?) so all that is in the sea will make no difference whatsoever. The ice in the sea will be displacing its weight, much like you would in a bath, so when it melts, it is still the same amount in the water, just in a different state. It's like if you had ice cubes in a glass(you can do an experiment aswell with this bit if you are reeeeally bored!) with the ice cubes displacing the water around them and that water level being right to the rim of the glass, then let them melt all on their own, the water level will stay the same, and not go spilling over the top as the water is 'added' to it. So the only ice that will add to the sea levels is that of the ice that is on land.

Well, thats my two cents, the earth is coming out of an ice age and we are almost definately contributing to the speed of which it is warming back up, but still, its a natural thing for the earths temperature to change.

I'll keep wondering about it all though,

Matt

Edited January 15, 2008 by Skoze