Car Modding Advise - Noob Here

[Joe Sheehan!]

You won't say that there being greedy if they pay out £50,000 if you kill someone...

yes i would. I pay my insurance for that reason, so i would expect them to if it were to happen, albeit i would obviously feel bad that i killed someone. Dont get me wrong, i dont think having insurance means i can go and knock people down, im saying i dont pay insurance for nothing. Besides, they wouldnt even feel that, its gotta be such a small percentage of their total income that they would gladly pay it if the book wasnt thrown at me.

Well now petrol has gone past a litre, is that too expensive? Gonna not bother with that too, or start stealing it?

Im not saying that, im saying that of all the millions of millions Mr. Insurance makes per annum, does he really need all that money? correct me if im wrong but thats greed. And as for petrol, thats the same as insurance, im going to keep paying the prices they dish out because i have no choice, caused perhaps by a greedy shiesty government. Its like road tax, we all pay it, yet englands roads are shit and we get conjestion charges and speeding fines?

EDIT: to be honest if you speed a silly amount where its not appropriate you deserve a fine, but along a dual carriageway where theres a clear, perfectly safe stretch of road and nobody is going to be crossing the road, do you really deserve that fine?

Edited January 10, 2008 by Joe Sheehan!

[TomR]

Insurance isnt expensive though once youre experienced. Say youre a bit older and your premium is at a steady £350 for a modernish car, you rear end someone lightly and thats probably more than £350 already, total your car and the other persons car and thats a lot of money they have to pay out - and for £350 a year thats not exactly bad. And with a lot more people driving nice cars these days the chances of hitting a new merc/bimmer/audi are very high.

[F-Stop Junkie]

Keep it simple i'd say, dont waste time with loads of crap from halfords, its tempting at first as the more small things you buy the more progress it feels like youre making with your car, soon gets boring though, my advice would be to stick to the simple but effective things and do it properly, it will make a lot of difference.

Also if you add crap to your car, then it will dent the performance. A big boot install (maybe two or three amps, a couple of big subs, a big wood or steel frame to hold it all in place, extra battery) adds a lot of weight right over or behind the rear axle, right where you don't want it. You'll get more understeer, less rear grip, potentially snappy oversteer, and you'll be paying in fuel to cart it all around.

Plus where do these people put their shopping???

[Si-man]

My insurance on a 100cc moped, at the age of 20, for just third party was f**king £290. Its even locked up in a secure area that noone could actually break into without having about 2 hours to spare.

Is bollocks.

[F-Stop Junkie]

Im not saying that, im saying that of all the millions of millions Mr. Insurance makes per annum, does he really need all that money? correct me if im wrong but thats greed.

So your argument against car insurance is that it's capitalistic? That's a new one on me...

Lets see, in 2003 Microsoft had cash reserves (That's not profit, or turn over, or anything like that. This is cash just laying around doing nothing) of $49 billion dollars. HSBC (the world's second largest bank, and seller of car insurance) made a pre-tax profit in 2007 of $22.1 billion dollars. That's life. That's companies working to improve shareholder value as that's what big companies do. That's companies driving down the cost of the services they offer so they can make more profit. That's how business works, buy low sell high.

If you believe that a company is making too much money - say through success, hard work or economies of scale, then feel free to shop elsewhere.

And as for petrol, thats the same as insurance, im going to keep paying the prices they dish out because i have no choice, caused perhaps by a greedy shiesty government. Its like road tax, we all pay it, yet englands roads are shit and we get conjestion charges and speeding fines?

I don't think speeding fines are there to get more money out of the motorist, but to punish people who have broken the law?

The reason petrol prices are so high is that the price of oil has gone mental. In 98, the average price of a barrel of crude oil was about $14. Now it's gone past $100 a barrel, so we have to pay more.

Oh, and car tax IIRC does not pay for the roads (it's not called road tax), but just for the pleasure of using a car. Local councils pay for road maintenance out of council funds.

EDIT: to be honest if you speed a silly amount where its not appropriate you deserve a fine, but along a dual carriageway where theres a clear, perfectly safe stretch of road and nobody is going to be crossing the road, do you really deserve that fine?

Well that's a different argument all together Laws have to be made and provisioned on the basis of a lowest common denomenator. We have a law that says you can not drive a car unless you are qualified to do so and have show sufficient ability not to be a danger to other people. However, when speed limits are set they are not based on the best drivers in high performance cars, but on young drivers who don't know what they're doing, and old drivers who can't remember what they're doing, and those who have passed the test but have little more ability than that. It's not about outright car control, but having speed appropriate to the surroundings. Drivers who have gone for big speed on the Autobahn in Germany say that if it's busy and there's a chance of a lorry pulling into the outside lane doing 70 while you're pushing 180, then you have no chance.

If you speed a silly amount in an unsuitable place, then you deserve to be banned. If you're driving at the speed limit on a motorway in thick fog, you deserve to be banned. This is my one big criticism of speed cameras. I can be high as a kite, pissed as a fart and be doing 50mph in the fast lane of the M1, and no speed camera will catch me. A proper traffic officier would pull me over for tailgating, driving at speeds unsuitable for the conditions, or any number of situations where it would be right for me to be pulled over. They would also let 90mph on a deserted motorway go without even a warning, because they have the ability to make that judgement, and that's what's needed.

You never did say how much insurance you pay for your moped? Do you pay?

[Joe Sheehan!]

I don't think speeding fines are there to get more money out of the motorist, but to punish people who have broken the law?

The reason petrol prices are so high is that the price of oil has gone mental. In 98, the average price of a barrel of crude oil was about $14. Now it's gone past $100 a barrel, so we have to pay more.

Oh, and car tax IIRC does not pay for the roads (it's not called road tax), but just for the pleasure of using a car. Local councils pay for road maintenance out of council funds.

Well that's a different argument all together Laws have to be made and provisioned on the basis of a lowest common denomenator. We have a law that says you can not drive a car unless you are qualified to do so and have show sufficient ability not to be a danger to other people. However, when speed limits are set they are not based on the best drivers in high performance cars, but on young drivers who don't know what they're doing, and old drivers who can't remember what they're doing, and those who have passed the test but have little more ability than that. It's not about outright car control, but having speed appropriate to the surroundings. Drivers who have gone for big speed on the Autobahn in Germany say that if it's busy and there's a chance of a lorry pulling into the outside lane doing 70 while you're pushing 180, then you have no chance.

You never did say how much insurance you pay for your moped? Do you pay?

Yeah dont get me wrong, I pay £342 a year on my bike thats worth £750 because of the reasons above, im not saying no insurance is a good idea, im just saying could it work?

Anyway, i see you point on microsoft and hsbc, im just a bit annoyed about insurance because it comes out of out pockets.

On the subject of petrol, IIRC its actually the government that taxes a large amount of petrol, hence the stupidly high prices. And about tax, well there you go thats almost worse, why do we pay for driving our cars that we buy, pass a test, insure, MOT and whatever else.

Yeah i see what you mean. But then again you could say, i pay for my car that goes fast, i insure it and tax it like i use it fast, yet i can't use it because i will lose my licence. If what you say is correct, then shouldnt we all pay roughly the same price insurance because we can all only go so fast? like within £1000 of each other? See what i mean.

[Hendrix]

1.4 sport = group 4 = £1400 ish fully comp

1.6 sport = group 6 = £1600 ish fully comp

I have got pass plus aswell and ive had a license for about 6 months. Was much more expensive when i first got my license that it is now for some reason.

JK

With advanced drivers, it's still 2.5k for a 1.4 for me. And that's like an old peoples car!

How are you getting it so cheap

I mean, my mate gets it cheap, but that's only cause his dad owns an insurance company....

Spill the beans jock... ha ha

[Egg Fried Rice]

I've noticed its cheaper to do it online than ring up. When i rang up to ask for a quote for a 1.4 they gave me about £2900 with PP. And online its £1400 which was kind of odd.

JK

[Hendrix]

I've noticed its cheaper to do it online than ring up. When i rang up to ask for a quote for a 1.4 they gave me about £2900 with PP. And online its £1400 which was kind of odd.

JK

Online it is!

Cheers!

[F-Stop Junkie]

Anyway, i see you point on microsoft and hsbc, im just a bit annoyed about insurance because it comes out of out pockets.

On the subject of petrol, IIRC its actually the government that taxes a large amount of petrol, hence the stupidly high prices. And about tax, well there you go thats almost worse, why do we pay for driving our cars that we buy, pass a test, insure, MOT and whatever else.

Yeah i see what you mean. But then again you could say, i pay for my car that goes fast, i insure it and tax it like i use it fast, yet i can't use it because i will lose my licence. If what you say is correct, then shouldnt we all pay roughly the same price insurance because we can all only go so fast? like within £1000 of each other? See what i mean.

If you buy any product or service then you're putting your money into that company's pocket. I pay for my broadband every month, and I'm damn sure my ISP takes more money from me than it pays to provide me with broadband. Like I said, that's life.

The Government does put a lot of tax on fuel, and a lot of the calculations are based on percentage costs (things like VAT for example) so as fuel costs rise, VAT pushes them higher still. The Government could reduce fuel duty or get rid of VAT on fuel, but it would lose a good chunk of money and have the green lobby up in arms. Petrol though is just one cost of having a car. It needs servicing, it needs an MoT to prove it is road worthy, it needs new tyres when the old ones wear out. Again, that's life. What are you suggesting, that because we pay for fuel and a tax disc that MoTs should be free?

Insurance isn't based on top speeds. What you're suggesting is some form of insurance communism where we are all affected equally. The problem is that insurance is based on risk. Older drivers are lower risk, more experienced drivers are lower risk, less powerful cars are lower risk, some areas are lower risk than others... Also there's the cost of repairing a car, which varies depending on the cost of parts and so on.

It's very narrow minded to say that if a car is speed limited, then you shouldn't pay so much for insurance. You know as well as I do that a high performance car is more likely to spin its wheels and cause the driver to lose control, it will accelerate faster, which means you'll be going quicker more of the time... How could my Dad in his little Corsa pay the same as some 17 year old who's decided he's going to insure a Subaru no matter what?

Plus if you have a fast car, you're more likely to drive quickly, and therefore you're more likely to have bigger accidents. There's nothing physically stopping you driving down a country lane at 150mph. It's like saying you shouldn't need a gun licence because you're only using it as a paper weight.

Ah, you did say how much you're paying, sorry I missed that post.

[granty]

some of you boys need to chill out not everyone that puts alloys and lowers there car are f**king gay chavs that crash every other week. you can put a stereo in your car so u can listen to music when your driving. but some off u jus think that its chavs that put a stereo in there car to sit outside maccy d's with there 13 yr old girl friends and play loud music but not everyone is like that. and you put alloys on your car to make the handling better i had a 1.4 vw polo for my first car and it had alloys on when i brought it but then when i sold it i took the alloys off and i was drivin it for about a week and i slid out twice. and i had never slid or anything with the alloys on if anything alloys should lower your insurance. same with suspension it make the car hadle better unless u put it on a bag of wank car like a corsa or a nova. but i have just brought a honda civic 1.6i ls and im on my mums insurance and it costs 900 fc but then i just wanted to see how much it would cost with alloys and they said they cant insure me thats why people dont declare mods cause u cant even put f**kin wheels on your car.

[Tomm]

Thanks for the bump.

insurance costs 900 fc but then i just wanted to see how much it would cost with alloys and they said they cant insure me thats why people dont declare mods cause u cant even put f**kin wheels on your car.

That's because:

everyone that puts alloys and lowers there car are f**king gay chavs that crash every other week

You said it

OK, maybe not everyone. But a good proportion do. The insurance companies have done their sums and they know that people who run modifed cars have a much higher risk of having accidents - That's why they charge more. It's not coincidence. Obviously driving a car with mods doesn't necessarily make you more dangerous, but the mentality of a driver who mods a car is more likely to be one of a bit of a boy racer. The insurance companies are just playing the percentages. And from the way you were you talking about making a 1.4 Polo slide out, I'd guess that you drive a bit recklessly too, sometimes? I don't especially mean that as a criticism, just a fact. This is why your insurance is high.

Oh, and this is total bullshit:

and you put alloys on your car to make the handling better i had a 1.4 vw polo for my first car and it had alloys on when i brought it but then when i sold it i took the alloys off and i was drivin it for about a week and i slid out twice. and i had never slid or anything with the alloys on if anything alloys should lower your insurance.

[Pashley26]

some of you boys need to chill out not everyone that puts alloys and lowers there car are f**king gay chavs that crash every other week. you can put a stereo in your car so u can listen to music when your driving. but some off u jus think that its chavs that put a stereo in there car to sit outside maccy d's with there 13 yr old girl friends and play loud music but not everyone is like that. and you put alloys on your car to make the handling better i had a 1.4 vw polo for my first car and it had alloys on when i brought it but then when i sold it i took the alloys off and i was drivin it for about a week and i slid out twice. and i had never slid or anything with the alloys on if anything alloys should lower your insurance. same with suspension it make the car hadle better unless u put it on a bag of wank car like a corsa or a nova. but i have just brought a honda civic 1.6i ls and im on my mums insurance and it costs 900 fc but then i just wanted to see how much it would cost with alloys and they said they cant insure me thats why people dont declare mods cause u cant even put f**kin wheels on your car.

...

I'm pretty sure Nobody has said that people who put big wheels on there car and lowers them "are f**king gay chavs that crash every other week"

But it is true that putting sporty stuff on your car makes you drive faster, Especially when your young. And When your young the last thing you need is to be going fast.

Experience.

Edit....And just to add....I bet the alloys on your polo didn't have the same tyres as the steels ? Experience....

Jarrod

Edited January 12, 2008 by Pashley26

[Fish-Finger-er]

not everyone that puts alloys and lowers there car are f**king gay chavs that crash every other week.

we never said anyone was, we just said it sticks your insurance up for something which is a pretty expensive and pointless thing to do.spesh if you only plan on keeping the car a year or so

and you put alloys on your car to make the handling better i had a 1.4 vw polo for my first car and it had alloys on when i brought it but then when i sold it i took the alloys off and i was drivin it for about a week and i slid out twice. and i had never slid or anything with the alloys on.

1) as tomm says, bullshit

2) alloys dont really improve handling, not to that point. and what your explaining isnt better handling, its better grip, 2 different things(although they do often go hand in hand)

3) its got sod all to do with the wheels, its all about the tyres. i reckon ive driven about 100 different cars in little under 3 years of driving. by and large the biggest difference is tyres, which is probably what you felt. sure you get a slightly bigger contact patch on the road with wider tyres, but not much. its the same with bike tyres. its all about the rubber, and tread depth.

if anything alloys should lower your insurance. same with suspension it make the car hadle better unless u put it on a bag of wank car like a corsa or a nova.

it shouldnt lower the insurance, being arsed enough to change stuff like that to make the car handle better, shows your into "enthusiastic" or "spirited" driving, which isnt a good thing in insurers eyes. also how does a "bag of wank" car like a corsa or nova, make it not worth putting suspension upgrades on. a corsa or a nova, with racing coilovers, upgraded arbs,small alloys,road legal slicks on, will go round corners, a million times better than that civic youve got with badly matched 60mm lowering springs, standard shock absorbers, and 18s that tramline hgv tracks, and wrapped in kingstar rubber.

likewise a standard corsa with decent rubber will handle better than a corsa with springs that dont match the shocks and alloys.so dont see why it would bring it down

but i have just brought a honda civic 1.6i ls and im on my mums insurance and it costs 900 fc but then i just wanted to see how much it would cost with alloys and they said they cant insure me thats why people dont declare mods cause u cant even put f**kin wheels on your car.

might as well not declare them, from what youve said your driving illegally anyway. (declaring your car, in yours mums name)

[Pashley26]

I am never saying anything that might offend trial punk ever again !!!

Jarrod

[Fish-Finger-er]

I am never saying anything that might offend trial punk ever again !!!

Jarrod

lol, you can call me a fat ugly b*stard, thats factually correct and i wont argue it, ill just nod me head and give "+1" to your post.

[Pashley26]

lol, you can call me a fat ugly b*stard, thats factually correct and i wont argue it, ill just nod me head and give "+1" to your post.

+1...

Jarrod

[F-Stop Junkie]

i had a 1.4 vw polo for my first car and it had alloys on when i brought it but then when i sold it i took the alloys off and i was drivin it for about a week and i slid out twice.

That's the problem with driving on brake discs. You'd have been fine if you'd put some other wheels on...

[Fishy]

I am never saying anything that might offend trial punk ever again !!!

Jarrod

He's a pussy 'ole. Can't hold his drink down for shit.

He think's he's big and 'ard but he ain't no TF boy.

[Pashley26]

He's a pussy 'ole. Can't hold his drink down for shit.

He think's he's big and 'ard but he ain't no TF boy.

Haha Mr Fish, I don't know why you didn't tell me that on MSN XD

Jarrod

[Fishy]

He's a wanabe hardman.

Nah I joke, he's got a massive wang. Would not want to get f**ked over by him.

[JonMack]

Nah I joke, he's got a massive wang. Would love to get f**ked by him.

Joe, you're filth.

[Pashley26]

He's a wanabe hardman.

Nah I joke, he's got a massive wang. Would not want to get f**ked over by him.

Well it felt quite normal to me ? Spam.

Jarrod

[TomR]

It depends on your insurer too, Ok faster cars will always cost more, but if you actually have a decent car the chances are you'll look after it more than some old banger, and some insurance companies do recognise this.

[Hendrix]

Just go to your posts, work out how many you've made in total (pages x posts per page) and take off the amount your profile tells you you've posted

Surely?

I'm going to keep my car standard, exept maybe a nicer Headunit and possibly better speakers ? But not a big case of ones, just upgraded ones

Alloys just make a car looks, err, less standard ? Also, I only see chavs driving cars with alloys on where I live... if they can afford them**

**Please note, this is not ment to be offencive in anyway, please don't take it as offence