Life

[Heatsink]

That's a great article packed with some motivational thoughts. I'm sure we can all do with some of that from time to time, especially trying to get up at 6am on a dark and foggy winter morning!

I've always kept in mind a simple phrase which had particular relevance during one part of my life when slogging through education for what seemed ages whilst desperate to get qualifications and be unleased into the world:

"The journey is the reward"

There are lots of meanings in there:

Live in the present, not pining for the past (which you can't change), or worrying/ looking forward to happiness in the future. Happiness is ready to be grabbed whenever you're ready to see the postives in your life which may have been hidden to you due to the way you were thinking. Familarity with things makes them invisable, i.e. good friendships, steady career, good financial status.

Find positives in your situation and relish them. Even set-backs can be chalked up as useful experience and cock ups be turned into sources of amusement in time.

Once you're content in your own skin, in the face of the ups and downs which inevitably come your way, then you're in a better position to make your own luck. Better future, relationships etc. I really believe you've got to be content with yourself first before others can like being with you, which will help with relationships and jobs etc.

Another thing I've found: You should assume that you can't change people's lives for them, but on the other hand be aware of the powerful affect your encouragement or bursts of negativity can have on them.

Steve

[fathopper]

Live to be a Hermit

[Alex.loves.boys]

Depends if I've had a wank or not. Prefer sleeping naked after a wank, reminds me of the rare times that I actually sleep with a girl.

gotta sig that

[dave85]

You'll never find a consistent form of happiness when it rests on objects in the world. None of them are constant and what you like about them one moment, you'll only dislike on another.

Additionally, whenever we describe an object as being bad or good, we are only describing our thoughts or reaction to it and not the thing in itself. The world, before we start dealing with it in our heads, is neither good nor bad, it just is. You are the one that makes yourself feel bad or good by the way you think about it and then react to that thinking. Change the thoughts or stop paying attention to them and you begin to live the world in a more desirable way.

I think, based on experience, that if you want to be the happiest you can, you need to tap into the experience of existing, as it's the most constant thing in your life and I suspect for everyone regardless of if they know it or not, it's the most rewarding realisation. "I exist? what the f**k is that all about?". It seems amazing to me that anything actually is. Easier said that done to realise it though. I forget it most of the time despite involving myself in specific type of activities to realise it. I'm usually trying to find happiness by identifying myself with the labels i can use to describe the type of activities i involve myself in or the type of objects I own. Very short lived and limited way of establishing happiness but unfortunately, the norm.

Perhaps not consistent happyness, but consistent satisfaction. I have a steam engine. It's big, old, and worn out. In its current state it is knackered, which is where I would quarrel with your second paragraph. Something that doesnt work is, well, "bad". It might have artistic merit but it's no use to anyone, it can't do a day's work. I will mend it in time, and look forward to the day it is finished, but then I'll lose a constant monitor that keeps me going.

I understand that our existance is amazing, and our ability to ponder that existance fabulous. But happyness to me will always come from using my mind and body to improve something, be that the state of my engine, the state of boumsong's bike (the original definition of a lost cause, gentlemen), or the state of mind of a friend. It isnt enough for me to appreciate my existance, I like to be changing things. A man I admire greatly said that a man's character is formed by his trade, his ability to use his hands to make and mend. I firmly believe that to be at the peak of your craft, whatever that may be and not necessarily practical, is the greatest joy you can find.

Perhaps it's uneducated, perhaps I lack the motivation or ability to see beyond my perception of what my senses take in, I'm no monk. But I do my best to keep the world around me moving smoothly and free from harm, and go to bed every night feeling content

[Krisboats]

Perhaps not consistent happyness, but consistent satisfaction. I have a steam engine. It's big, old, and worn out. In its current state it is knackered, which is where I would quarrel with your second paragraph. Something that doesnt work is, well, "bad". It might have artistic merit but it's no use to anyone, it can't do a day's work. I will mend it in time, and look forward to the day it is finished, but then I'll lose a constant monitor that keeps me going.

I understand that our existance is amazing, and our ability to ponder that existance fabulous. But happyness to me will always come from using my mind and body to improve something, be that the state of my engine, the state of boumsong's bike (the original definition of a lost cause, gentlemen), or the state of mind of a friend. It isnt enough for me to appreciate my existance, I like to be changing things. A man I admire greatly said that a man's character is formed by his trade, his ability to use his hands to make and mend. I firmly believe that to be at the peak of your craft, whatever that may be and not necessarily practical, is the greatest joy you can find.

Perhaps it's uneducated, perhaps I lack the motivation or ability to see beyond my perception of what my senses take in, I'm no monk. But I do my best to keep the world around me moving smoothly and free from harm, and go to bed every night feeling content

Its so true though. Theres always something wrong with that thing

[1a2bcio8]

First off, thanks for taking the time to read my post and reply to it

Perhaps not consistent happyness, but consistent satisfaction. I have a steam engine. It's big, old, and worn out. In its current state it is knackered, which is where I would quarrel with your second paragraph. Something that doesnt work is, well, "bad". It might have artistic merit but it's no use to anyone, it can't do a day's work. I will mend it in time, and look forward to the day it is finished, but then I'll lose a constant monitor that keeps me going.

Second off, I'd like to reply to your position above. When you say "satisfied", I think you are still referring to a condition of feeling happy, or perhaps i should say feeling good. We can lump those conditions into the general terms , desirable or undesirable. What I'm basically saying is that descriptions such as "satisfied", "happy", "content", etc are all fairly similar, just differing perhaps in degrees of being positive. My point then is that the manner in which you are achieving those positive states, if based on an activity or a thing, will ultimately be limited and temporary. I think you understand this but you miss it when you describe something as a satisfaction, as though it escapes the problem but satisfaction ultimately reduces to the same thing - a positive that is perhaps of a differing degree to happiness. It may be that I'm missing what you mean by that however.

With regards to something being bad, I would quite strongly disagree with you. When you have decided that the train is "bad" because it is not useful to you anymore, you are describing an idea, which is inescapably rooted in your own mind - it is your construction. Without your idea there would be nothing to think that the train was bad - imagine if no intelligent life existed, would there still be good and bad? In fact, before you, there is not even a train, there is just an organization of some ineffable stuff. But then you come along and you make up ideas about the thing. This is organised in such and such a way so we call it this. This performs this function well so we say it is good, it performs this function not so well so we call it bad. Or more specifically, I can conceive of an ideal condition for this train (you created that idea) and then relating it to the way the train is organised - it's condition (it doesn't work/does work), you will find a conflict or correlation and say bad or good, respectively. The point is, good or bad can't come to be until you have an idea that conflicts, with reality or the material world.

And doesn't the fact you will find it bad or have the potential to find it bad, emphasis my point? You can imagine a way you would like it to be and call that good and therefore feel good but it will never always be that way. Every train will always break and then if you are willing to say it is bad, you will feel bad - thinking bad inevitably leads to feeling bad. If you realise it is neither good or bad, you can tap into another way of perceiving the world that I have personally found to be a lot more rewarding.

I understand that our existance is amazing, and our ability to ponder that existance fabulous. But happyness to me will always come from using my mind and body to improve something, be that the state of my engine, the state of boumsong's bike (the original definition of a lost cause, gentlemen), or the state of mind of a friend. It isnt enough for me to appreciate my existance, I like to be changing things. A man I admire greatly said that a man's character is formed by his trade, his ability to use his hands to make and mend. I firmly believe that to be at the peak of your craft, whatever that may be and not necessarily practical, is the greatest joy you can find.

This is an interesting point that you make. I'm glad to hear you know what it is you like (that's more than a lot of people) and I can totally relate because I am very much like that and I spend more time being that way that the other way that I am mentioning which has brought me a different more constant kind of contentment. The problem with looking to improve things is the misperception that things aren't correct as they are. In a very real sense, everything is how it should be - first and foremost, everything just 'is'. What happens is the mind comes along and imagines something in a different way and says "I can imagine this situation in such and such a way and it is right (desirable), therefore the situation now is wrong (undesirable as a contrast to an imagined desirable). This can lead to suffering because again you are thinking that things are wrong and therefore bad and need to be made right and therefore good. Can you imagine not thinking in terms of things being right and wrong? Some might imagine this as boring but my experience says otherwise.

Again, in the process of identifying with job or your ability or any activity, that is something that will pass in your ability to be abled at it or to do it at all. You will reach a peak, you will be elevated but you will have to come down from that. That's the just the law of universe (it seems highly probable). This sounds like a very pessimistic position but it's not I promise

Perhaps it's uneducated, perhaps I lack the motivation or ability to see beyond my perception of what my senses take in, I'm no monk. But I do my best to keep the world around me moving smoothly and free from harm, and go to bed every night feeling content

Well to be honest, if you feel happy enough in what you are doing, keep doing it! I always have to accept that I may be talking shit - an easy thing to do. I also accept that the type of way of perceiving the world is not for very many people at this point in time, mainly because of the loophole situation that not many people are attempting it.

The point is though, that if you aren't able to accept the your condition as one that depends on external stimulus and its continual switching between feeling good and feeling bad, there is a condition which gets past that.

Not sure why I feel the need to write this sort of thing at 1am, so please ignore any repetition or incoherence

Edited January 5, 2008 by rowly

[dave85]

I accept that feelings of good and bad are entirely constructions of the mind. This unfortunately doesnt remove the requirement to use them in order to get by. I would suspect the great majority of people never question why they consider something to be good or bad simply because it's a convenient link to how other people feel (e.g., as an example, football fans feeling negative about their team losing a match, if you felt positive about it and voiced your opinion you'd be in high danger of getting thumped!). And generally to make money we need to turn a "bad" situtation into a "good" one, so it is a big struggle for the man on the street to disentangle his perceptions from the stimuli that cause those perceptions. Whatever your state of enlightenment, it wont save you from the wrath of the water board if you havent payed your bill

[1a2bcio8]

I accept that feelings of good and bad are entirely constructions of the mind. This unfortunately doesnt remove the requirement to use them in order to get by. I would suspect the great majority of people never question why they consider something to be good or bad simply because it's a convenient link to how other people feel (e.g., as an example, football fans feeling negative about their team losing a match, if you felt positive about it and voiced your opinion you'd be in high danger of getting thumped!). And generally to make money we need to turn a "bad" situtation into a "good" one, so it is a big struggle for the man on the street to disentangle his perceptions from the stimuli that cause those perceptions. Whatever your state of enlightenment, it wont save you from the wrath of the water board if you havent payed your bill

Hehe, I guess not but at least you won't feel the need to be concerned about it

[Muel]

Jesus, the essays sprouting from this topic.

Not having a crack at the contents, just the legnth.

I live to make my life better, I then peak, retire and spend 20 years thinking about all the stuff I forgot to do and am now to old to do. Preferably in a great big house with plenty of cars, booze and birds.

[Simon]

With the whole 'help yourself' thing, having been through the worst depression, sometimes that's a lot easier said then done, i know i for sure couldn't of done it, and it involved people and events to sort the depression i was going to.

When your in bad depression you think everything will just make it worse and turn out bad, and just keep thinking "why should i bother, will only back fire".

Sometime it does require something else in life to spark the road to recovery, i know it did with me.

Personally, i think your an exceptional case John, i know of no one else like you, and i honestly believe you are one in a million for the way you think, if you do actually genuinely think like that... i'm not saying you are lying but that's a pretty idealistic world you live in if nothing makes you unhappy. Also pretty sure not many others are like you, so saying that only you can make yourself happy is wrong advice, if one like in the state i was, would of been left to my self, it would sure as hell not got any better.

Not read Dave or Rowly's contributions so can't comment on them.

[BONGO]

With the whole 'help yourself' thing, having been through the worst depression, sometimes that's a lot easier said then done, i know i for sure couldn't of done it, and it involved people and events to sort the depression i was going to.

When your in bad depression you think everything will just make it worse and turn out bad, and just keep thinking "why should i bother, will only back fire".

Sometime it does require something else in life to spark the road to recovery, i know it did with me.

Personally, i think your an exceptional case John, i know of no one else like you, and i honestly believe you are one in a million for the way you think, if you do actually genuinely think like that... i'm not saying you are lying but that's a pretty idealistic world you live in if nothing makes you unhappy. Also pretty sure not many others are like you, so saying that only you can make yourself happy is wrong advice, if one like in the state i was, would of been left to my self, it would sure as hell not got any better.

Not read Dave or Rowly's contributions so can't comment on them.

There isn't a right or wrong though. Whatever you have had to do to get through your problems obviously worked for you, but may not work for others. I'm not for one second saying my life is never unhappy, but when something happens, i know that i have to do something to deal with the problem and get back on track. People can appear happy and have it go unoticed. Only you know whether you are actually content with your life, so when i say it's up to you, that can come down to the simplest of things such as letting a friend know that something is wrong. It's not a black and white thing that i can describe abotu what i go through when somehting happens. Say for instance someone i love dies. It's terrible, it's something i can't get away from, can't forget about or hide, but somehting i have to deal with. I know that i MUST deal with it, becasue i do not want to live unhappy. It's happened, there is nothing i can do, so i just force myself mentally to do things i enjoy, watch things i enjoy, act how i should act when i am happy and when things are all good. Sure it's hard and a bit of a lie to yourself sometimes, but it's like the old things where someone is crying. If they laugh, when they are crying, then do it again and again and again, before you know it you can actually get over the crying and actually laugh for real without it being forced. Maybe it really is a strange way to deal with things, and it might not work for anyone else on here, but for me, that's how i deal with problems, it works for me and if i tell it on here and someone thinks of it maybe when they are down and it happens to work, then it might do some good for someone.

I never meant that only you can make yourself happy so you should keep problems in and deal with them alone, i mean that it's up to you to recognise the problem and set about sorting it by your actions, by talking to people, letting friends know, or however you as an individual thinks you should. Like i have said, the way i think is what i've written, which will no doubt be very different to how others deal with things.

It's very very hard to explain our mind!!! I've tried lol.

Bongo