Tomm Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Is there another way?The easiest way to post lots of pictures (on this forum) is to upload them to an external site like photobucket. That lets you upload as many photos as you want at the same time, and can copy all the img tags into one post for you. It also makes posting on different forums dead easy since you only need to copy and paste the forum code and the pictures will still work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Cool, I'll look into that and post a bunch after I get it all welded up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan6061 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 That's weelll nice!Welds look amazing too. Nice one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavyn. Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 looks ace. I'd like to make it so that it was bolt together, snap one part and you can replace it without changing the frame could also get different geo parts so if you fancied longer chainstays you could spend £100 or under on new chain stays rather than buying a new frame.it's an ace idea but unlikely it'll ever happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 looks ace. I'd like to make it so that it was bolt together, snap one part and you can replace it without changing the frame could also get different geo parts so if you fancied longer chainstays you could spend £100 or under on new chain stays rather than buying a new frame.it's an ace idea but unlikely it'll ever happenThe idea has been tossed around, the issue will be the fastener method. The frame will only be as strong as the fastened connection, and aluminum doesn't hold threads all that well... But if it was a through bolt/pinned connection, something like a Horst link suspension, but with no travel.That could work. interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Looks very... different! Good on you for giving it a go but that's gotta be one stupidly expensive way of making a frame. That's gotta be at least $3000 for the material and machining, no? Crazy mofo!!Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt rushton Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Looks very good, You thought about a Lower standover height to save weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan6061 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 How much would you want for these? (If you do sell them...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 The idea has been tossed around, the issue will be the fastener method. The frame will only be as strong as the fastened connection, and aluminum doesn't hold threads all that well... But if it was a through bolt/pinned connection, something like a Horst link suspension, but with no travel.That could work. interesting....I was thinking about this the other day. Surely a fastened interface would never be as stiff as a welded one - even if the frames were made to amazing tolerances. Therefore there is the potential for some slight movement and premature aging of the frame? I'm not an engineer but I can't imagine the pros would outweigh the cons unless you did something very new.P.S. Pictures added to first post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 i reckon it will be one of the strongest frames on the market actuallyhmm id say yes - as the bb / stays joins to the main triangle and the whole rear end look fantastic... the front triangle looks strong enough - the only think i would be concerned about is the headtube join. its got a pretty small thin weld area ? Ive seen frames with large beefed up weld areas fail .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Looks very... different! Good on you for giving it a go but that's gotta be one stupidly expensive way of making a frame. That's gotta be at least $3000 for the material and machining, no? Crazy mofo!!DaveHow much would you want for these? (If you do sell them...)There is no doubt that the designs and methods are contrary to an economical approach, but with the trend of having more and more machined components as a part of the frame build, it seams appropriate. I also think that the method is on a similar difficulty level to Koxx, as they move towards very complicated monocoque and hydro-formed frame designs, (The dies for these frames are very sophisticated and not affordable for the little guy) which is a smart move on their part as it sets them apart. Thus I have chosen my approach in a similar manner.Over the past years there have been topics floating and discussions had about cnc'ed frames, most of it pretty discouraging, the main points are design, weight, rigidity, ride, and price. Weight being a big one, my frame weighs under (should we'll see today) most mods, and looks like it will weigh as much as the Hydroxx- The design has tried to take into account weight, strength, style, and fabrication. The frame should be very rigid. The ride characteristics will be determined by riders, so we'll see. Finally price: $3000.00 is not far off from the prototype cost, but in the grand scheme of things it's pretty cheap, ... I'll not go into my whole "Prototyping needs to be more accessible" monologue. So the long and short of it is, I am not sure what the final cost will be, but I feel the frame will retail $1350.00 US or in that range. The price will be effected by the demand, as it's far cheaper to 500 frames than it is 10.I was thinking about this the other day. Surely a fastened interface would never be as stiff as a welded one - even if the frames were made to amazing tolerances. Therefore there is the potential for some slight movement and premature aging of the frame? I'm not an engineer but I can't imagine the pros would outweigh the cons unless you did something very new.P.S. Pictures added to first post My thirst thought was, yeah you're probably right, but then I thought... planes are bolted together?hmm id say yes - as the bb / stays joins to the main triangle and the whole rear end look fantastic... the front triangle looks strong enough - the only think i would be concerned about is the headtube join. its got a pretty small thin weld area ? Ive seen frames with large beefed up weld areas fail ....It's funny you should mention this, all the first comments I got from riders had to do with this head tube joint. When we ran the FEA, the headtube is one of the coolest areas. But it is hard to calculate a botched tap, or a TRA sized hook. But I feel pretty confident.Thanks guys, keep the comments and ideas coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Finally price: $3000.00 is not far off from the prototype cost, but in the grand scheme of things it's pretty cheap, ... I'll not go into my whole "Prototyping needs to be more accessible" monologue. So the long and short of it is, I am not sure what the final cost will be, but I feel the frame will retail $1350.00 US or in that range. The price will be effected by the demand, as it's far cheaper to 500 frames than it is 10.That's not unreasonable really, especially with the dollar weak as it is. But make sure we can get them for that sort of price (£700) rather than just translating the dollar price into pounds as many people seem to think is fair By the way, well done for doing this. It seems as though you're just a random guy who decided one day to make this, but is there more to it? I mean are you an engineer, or planning this as a major business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 By the way, well done for doing this. It seems as though you're just a random guy who decided one day to make this, but is there more to it? I mean are you an engineer, or planning this as a major business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt rushton Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 You going to get some brake mounts on then get it built up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 excellent! it's nearly completetell us how it rides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I'm with Rowan on this one - I'd be worried about the head-tube join. It just worries me that there's so little weld area on it? Even on properly ovalised and gusseted tubes I've seen them crack, so it just seems a bit dicey this one's got such a relatively small area?Good work for actually getting it made though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 The idea has been tossed around, the issue will be the fastener method. The frame will only be as strong as the fastened connection, and aluminum doesn't hold threads all that well... But if it was a through bolt/pinned connection, something like a Horst link suspension, but with no travel.That could work. interesting....Just an idea, but if you used say 50 aluminum M5 bolts to secure the front triangle to the rear one (over simplifying things, I know), the weight would still remain low yet surely the strength would be pretty good? Good luck with this, let me know if they ever go into production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Yes I am going to weld the mounts on today.Here is a preview of the stock.It is in early phase design, based on the mod. The seat tube area will be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) My thirst thought was, yeah you're probably right, but then I thought... planes are bolted together?Thanks guys, keep the comments and ideas coming.Planes are designed to flex though arn't they? I agree both trials frames and planes are looking at achieving the lowest FOS without compromising strength too much, but planes are supposed to flex, take a look at the wings next time you fly, it's not confidence inspiring at all.EDIT: by the way, really great work your doing here, fair play for getting it together. Edited December 30, 2007 by Jakers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Planes are designed to flex though arn't they? I agree both trials frames and planes are looking at achieving the lowest FOS without compromising strength too much, but planes are supposed to flex, take a look at the wings next time you fly, it's not confidence inspiring at all.EDIT: by the way, really great work your doing here, fair play for getting it together.Good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducko Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) looks like an expensive build,even the ally used on that frame would cost a fair bit,is it standard metal or a composite?good jobPlanes are designed to flex though arn't they? I agree both trials frames and planes are looking at achieving the lowest FOS without compromising strength too much, but planes are supposed to flex, take a look at the wings next time you fly, it's not confidence inspiring at all.EDIT: by the way, really great work your doing here, fair play for getting it together.on that note my job is to make the spars and the skins for airbus aircraft Wings that is), the wings flex a load so believe it or not alot of the parts of the wings have a fair bit of flex;) dont let it put you off flying thou haha Edited December 30, 2007 by craigdavies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang! Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 looks like an expensive build,even the ally used on that frame would cost a fair bit,is it standard metal or a composite?The majority of the frame is 6061 T6, the stays are 7005 T6 (I couldn't find the tubes in any other material).But it is possible to weld them together and bring them up to T6. You can't do this with 7075 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnyMilton Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Why would you want such an ugly frame?Sorry guys, I hate CNCed parts, they look horrible, they make me cry! Edited December 30, 2007 by JohnyTrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Really like it! similar to pete wrights fresh products bike? (With all the holes in.....lol) Just need some final build pictures now!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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