Improved Balance Whilst Rolling As Opposed To Standing Still?

[Krisboats]

Just curious really as i was talking to jonny today and i realised i can ride along in a completely straight line without needing to adjust my side to side balance though if i stand still on the bike i can't balance anywhere near as well.

Is there a specific reason for this?

[scousertrials]

Yes, bike works like a gyroscope. A gyroscope is a cool thing that defies gravity.

[munkee]

Yup as the guy above said. You can prove this by taking your front wheel out your forks and spinning it then holding the quick release at either end with your hands (like your forks do) then try twisting the wheel.. and ull feel how hard it is to turn = gyroscope

[Joe_Elding]

is this similar to how its easier to wheelie than to manual?

[Muel]

is this similar to how its easier to wheelie than to manual?

Sort of, although its probably more likely that if the front wheel drops you can pedal harder, if it comes to high you can use the back brake.

Bicycles don't have much in the way of gyroscopic effect, the wheel don't often go fast enough, on trials bikes anyway, once you get going a bit faster then iot does kick in.

[Krisboats]

Yup as the guy above said. You can prove this by taking your front wheel out your forks and spinning it then holding the quick release at either end with your hands (like your forks do) then try twisting the wheel.. and ull feel how hard it is to turn = gyroscope

Ah, that makes sense i guess. But is that really the entire reason for it? Because when i'm rolling along i can go in a perfectly straight line, making just a few mm sized adjustments on the bars to keep my balance.... when using your example i only really feel resistance on the wheel when it gets to about 50 degrees from horizontal.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Krisboats

[Endohopper]

Momentum lends stability.

[PaRtZ]

Yes, bike works like a gyroscope. A gyroscope is a cool thing that defies gravity.

does it really?

[Krisboats]

Momentum lends stability.

So my weight is focussed on travelling forwards rather than sideways?

[scousertrials]

does it really?

Yes really.

[NVWOCI WVS]

Yes really.

not really as this implies it levitates/flys/hovers, it just doesnt fall over, if you dropped a spinning gyrosco[e out of a plane it would still fall hence not defying gravity.

[PaRtZ]

not really as this implies it levitates/flys/hovers, it just doesnt fall over, if you dropped a spinning gyrosco[e out of a plane it would still fall hence not defying gravity.

Sorry, I know what you mean, you mean it wouldn't topple over because of the centripedal (or centrifugal? can't remember) forces keeping it vertical, but it would still fall downwards

[matt rushton]

Is this the same reason why, when you have no chain on and you spin your cranks you bike will stand up on its own?

Matt Rushton

[011001000110010101110010]

Inertia is your friend!

[2sixstreet]

Is this the same reason why, when you have no chain on and you spin your cranks you bike will stand up on its own?

Matt Rushton

What?

I always take what I read on Wikipedia with a grain of salt but this makes a lot of sense.

Wikipedia balance stuff

[Ash-Kennard]

its known as gyroscopic motion. take your front wheel out, hold the axle, get someone to spin your front wheel, then try moving it sideways. its hard.

hence manuals, taps etc are easier if you let the front wheel spin

EDIT: its also the reason you can ride a bike with no hands

Edited September 25, 2007 by ash-kennard

[PaRtZ]

hence manuals, taps etc are easier if you let the front wheel spin

actually, they're easier whilst front wheel is spinning because the air resistance from the spokes lets the front wheel take off as it scoops the air backwards [/petewright]

[walker]

ive done physics at a level, but i cant really explain all this momentum stuff. i once saw a video of these astronauts in zero gravity, they cant travel anywhere inside their shuttle unless they push off something, newtons laws. but they can turn their body around on the spot by doing some queer arm movements, like turn their body 360 without touching anything else, can anyone spread any light on this?

Just a thought about balancing on the spot. Trials motorbikes have a spinning flywheel inside them, so this should make them easier to balance on the spot, ill try it next time im on mine, with the engine off and running, see if it makes a difference. Maybe you could have a little wheel in the mille of your trials frame that spins when u kick ur pedals, but keeps going, giveing u stability when you're stood still, i know it would add a fair bit of weight, as it would need to be fairly hefty to have a significant effect, but its just a thought!

Andrew

Edited September 24, 2007 by walk_aw

[JD™]

or perhaps we could encourage new riders to learn things in the right order? i.e. learn to trackstand till you can do it in your sleep with your arms folded with next to no correctional movements before you move onto _anything_ else. And then every time a move is learnt you get yourself to keep going over it until you could do it in your sleep and still make it look easy... if people take the time to learn things properly then we wont need to dream up contraptions to make a difficult yet rewarding sport easy.

trials = balance + skill

in answer to the first question.... someones said it but its intertia not gyroscopic forces that are your main help

J

[duane]

I think your all wrong. When you are rolling along, the small adjustments you make to the handle bars are enough to reposition the bike under your center of gravity hence keeping you upright - you learnt to do this when you learnt to ride a bike and haven't thought about it since.

The forces generated by your relativley slowly spinning light weight wheel are no where near enough to keep you balanced.

To prove my point, ride along slowly with your hands on the bars making the mirco adjustments that years of riding a bike has taught your brain to tell your hands to do without you knowing. Now take your hands of the bars at 5 mph or less and let the physics of your wheels keep you up - doesnt last long does it.

Duane.

[Tommy d]

Kind of agree with the Duane post above... I think it's just the fact that when you're rolling, you only need to make the tiniest movement to turn the the wheel a fraction and create the sideways movement you need to stay balanced. And because of the speed you're travelling at, even if it's not that fast, the effect will be felt pretty much immediately.

Whereas if you're trackstanding, you've either got to actually lift a wheel off the ground and put it to one side a bit, by which time the amount that you need to move it by might have changed, and just the act of doing this might put you more off balance. Or if you're doing the turn-wheel-sideways-and-lean type of trackstand then it's just harder to create as much effect as if you were rolling, because you have to lean the bike quite far over to make even a small movement of the tyre on the ground.

Or something... I confuse myself a bit when I try to explain that stuff!