Ceramic Trials Rims?

[Zordon]

Have there ever been any ceramic trials (i.e. WIDE) rims available? I know Mavic made some ceramic rims but they were half the width of trials ones.

Yeah, I suppose someone will say "just grind your rim" but somehow I can't bother to do it.

[F-Stop Junkie]

Running ceramics has been tried. Not as effective as a grind, destroys normal smooth rim pads, cracks and chips off as you bash the rim or it flexes. Avoid.

Can't be bothered to grind? Use pads intended for smooth rims?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Whatever happened to the Plazmatic rim coatings they used to do? Did no one ever bodge a copy of that?!

[AdamR28]

Did no one ever bodge a copy of that?!

Ali C....

Grinding disc + hammer + superglue...

[Muel]

I am intreaged, how do I do that?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Ali C....

Grinding disc + hammer + superglue...

good man!! The original was stupidly expensive wasn't it... like £80 a wheel or something silly.

[Prawny Baby]

Running ceramics has been tried. Not as effective as a grind, destroys normal smooth rim pads, cracks and chips off as you bash the rim or it flexes. Avoid.

im going to have to disagree BIG TIME there chris

the singlest best brake ive EVER had, without any hint of question, was an hs33, with an RB lever, koxx browns, and a D521 ceramic rim.

the ceramic rim was 10X better than any grind ive come across, its power was just beyond believe. to this day ive not felt a brake that compares. even in the pouring rain, even riding in a stream, the brake still held 100% and would not slip.

in the wet it was silent, but in the dry it was VERY loud.

and its a mavic 521, so yea, it WILL chip off if you dent it. but its a 521.... your NOT going to dent it.

also, measured on calipers, after 6 months use, of riding just about every day, my koxx browns wore less than 1mm.

i only changed because i got mega tyre fold on the narrow rim.

[Caleb]

how's that possible though the brake not slipping in the wet?

on the2combinations of ceramics ive had in the past, one with crv's one with blacks they always slipped at th hint of water, as would a cd rim surely?

did you hack into the pads to allow the water to vent out etc?

[willy wonka]

how's that possible though the brake not slipping in the wet?

on the2combinations of ceramics ive had in the past, one with crv's one with blacks they always slipped at th hint of water, as would a cd rim surely?

did you hack into the pads to allow the water to vent out etc?

crv's dont work in water on a grind..

[AdamR28]

CD is VERY different to Ceramic...

[Davetrials]

but its a 521.... your NOT going to dent it.

i dented mine, i think tartty still has it.

CD is a coating, like Hard coat for middleburn rims, it just makes the rim life longer.

ceramic is an abrasive coating, it does chip though.

[Zordon]

I don't ride any big so I doubt I'd chip it. For the price I could even pay 150% of average trials price for ceramic 19' rim at least 38mm wide. I'm using Coustvees, they are intended for ground rims. I like them because they give a solid lever feel and don't loose as much power on a smooth rim as soft pads do in wet.

Of course I could grind my rim. I did so a year ago on another rim. It lasted 1-2 months and after that the brake worked worse than on smooth rim. To keep the brake performance at a decent level I should then regrind my rim every 1-2 months and that would kill the rim quite fast, I suppose. Now I'm using a smooth (almost) rim and it's fine to me but not superb. Therefore I thought ceramic would be a perfect solution for me. The only better I can imagine is a magnalium ceramic one (or carbon ).

Edited September 12, 2007 by zordon

[Tim/Trialsin USA]

OK, how not too keep this from turning into russian novel length............ha, ha, ha...

Plazmatic rim coating ceased to be done about 4 or 5 years ago. It was actually very hard to chip (as the base metal used was maliable). It did not wear hardly at all once broken in because of the nickel and other harder metals also contained in it. Could it be chipped?...yes, but it was pretty hard to do. The benefit? Consistent braking......no matter what.....wet, dry, slimy....made no difference. Downside? yes, it was quite expensive (even at the high price it was my profit margin barely covered the paperwork!).

Ceramic is a different coating entirely. While it is applied with the same machine (plasma jet machines....starting at close to $1M a peice these days!), the material used in the Mavic type coating is aluminum oxide based (we did a similar one that was 10% titanium oxide as well). While not quite as effective as the textured coating of Plazmatic Trials coating...... there are benefits to ceremic over others. Ceramic is very hard, and in that nothing sticks to it (dust, dirt etc...)... and wather just rolls off (while aluminum is a comparitively porous material and so the water stays the in little pocktets until a few turns of the pads sqeegying the water off). Anyway, point is......ceremic is excellent for trials. The down side beside expense? It is reletively brittle and does tend to chip when directly impacted on (not that that ever happens in trials....ha, ha, ha).

[Krisboats]

OK, how not too keep this from turning into russian novel length............ha, ha, ha...

Plazmatic rim coating ceased to be done about 4 or 5 years ago. It was actually very hard to chip (as the base metal used was maliable). It did not wear hardly at all once broken in because of the nickel and other harder metals also contained in it. Could it be chipped?...yes, but it was pretty hard to do. The benefit? Consistent braking......no matter what.....wet, dry, slimy....made no difference. Downside? yes, it was quite expensive (even at the high price it was my profit margin barely covered the paperwork!).

Ceramic is a different coating entirely. While it is applied with the same machine (plasma jet machines....starting at close to $1M a peice these days!), the material used in the Mavic type coating is aluminum oxide based (we did a similar one that was 10% titanium oxide as well). While not quite as effective as the textured coating of Plazmatic Trials coating...... there are benefits to ceremic over others. Ceramic is very hard, and in that nothing sticks to it (dust, dirt etc...)... and wather just rolls off (while aluminum is a comparitively porous material and so the water stays the in little pocktets until a few turns of the pads sqeegying the water off). Anyway, point is......ceremic is excellent for trials. The down side beside expense? It is reletively brittle and does tend to chip when directly impacted on (not that that ever happens in trials....ha, ha, ha).

While your around... Have plazzies lost their touch? Someone mentioned that plazzy material has been changed... figured you'd be able to say for definate as i havn't seen anywhere saying it has.

[nmt_oli]

I have to say, i LOVE my ceramic!!! Yes, i still run a 521! i'm old skool me!

gives me trouble free braking, but isn't brilliant in the wet, although i think thats down to the pads. might have to find some browns and see if prawny is telling the truth!

I'm running std plax pads (crm's i think) and they havent worn AT ALL!!! prawn can veryify this, when we rebuilt my bike onto my leeson frame, we measured the pads and they were dead on 6mm. that was after a year or use!

[durkie]

Also, I've been working on getting something similar to the plazmatic coating going again. In fact...I've been working on it for a couple years. Not consistently of course, I gotta go to school and ride and do things, but for some time for sure.

Anyways, there are a couple problems with it, and I don't think it's quite ready for primetime....I have something up my sleeve in the near future, so you can be sure you'll hear about it if it works out well. If you're interested though, here's my original thread on OTN.

[modman]

while we're on the subject of ceramics, are there any wide 19" ceramic rims for mods?

[Bigman]

while we're on the subject of ceramics, are there any wide 19" ceramic rims for mods?

Haha, there are no wide ceramic rims at all!

Adam

PS: I had the same setup as prawn, Ceramic braking wise and it was also AWSOME!

[Dan Clark]

I remember JonMack noce got hold of a DX32 with the heavy Plazmatic coating applied and was getting through brand new pads every night.

[Tommy d]

There I was thinking these ceramic D521s might be rather nice when my current nackered wheel gives out, and then I found out it's £45 extra! Maybe not!

[Tim/Trialsin USA]

Also, I've been working on getting something similar to the plazmatic coating going again. In fact...I've been working on it for a couple years. Not consistently of course, I gotta go to school and ride and do things, but for some time for sure.

Anyways, there are a couple problems with it, and I don't think it's quite ready for primetime....I have something up my sleeve in the near future, so you can be sure you'll hear about it if it works out well. If you're interested though, here's my original thread on OTN.

There were a few problems I ran into with the Plazmatic coating.

1. Cost. Though to be honest to get ultimate (and no variance in grip wet or dry or even oil on the rim!) braking, have your rim last years and

never have to bust out a grinding set up. The problem it does not look cool! That is to say, I see people spending like drunken sailors on bling for their bike with dubious, at best, actual improvments to riding......but braking, arguably the most important performance item on the bike, doesn't deserve the money....don't get it.

2. The medium texture coating is the one we did the most often. The texture was waaaaaaaay gnarny first couple sets of pads, after that it bedded into something most could live with. Still faster wear than a grind...but not the 15 minites excessive of harsh texture.

Coating is the way to go, but I could not get the numbers to ad up. The profit margin was so thin, and volume so that it really became not worth doing. I still can't believe people find grinding a good option........ rims are aluminum (not the hardest metal on earth), so a grind never lasts all that long (if riding alot), therefore there is no such thing as consistent braking.......seems like an aweful lot of work for inconsistent results.

I do understand it is expensive. But the rider that whines about it being to expensive is very often the one with an I-POD, trick anodized lever adjuster knobs for their HS-33s or rolling up in a nice car. Priorities.......

Steve, I really hope you get the coating ball rolling........ the sport really does need it.