Savage Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Been told rders fulfilled late December - Early January, no full build as yet but the U.K. if full of good components.Ben.When will these bikes be available?How much for the full build? (smae as the pictures above)Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unissamog Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Since I have just been verified, I figured I would weigh in on this. The Blue one shown above is my ride. I don't have a whole lot of experience on other modern frames, but this is by far the most comfortable frame I have been on. I am a big guy at 6'1" and ~230lbs and I feel 100% confident on this frame. No booster on the rear and the brakes feel very good. Geo is nice while on the rear wheel. For another opinion, check out this post from LanceT over on OTN.http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=32482 Edited November 23, 2007 by unissamog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Riding pics please.Ben.Since I have just been verified, I figured I would weigh in on this. The Blue one shown above is my ride. I don't have a whole lot of experience on other modern frames, but this is by far the most comfortable frame I have been on. I am a big guy at 6'1" and ~230lbs and I feel 100% confident on this frame. No booster on the rear and the brakes feel very good. Geo is nice while on the rear wheel. For another opinion, check out this post from LanceT over on OTN.http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=32482 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted November 24, 2007 Report Share Posted November 24, 2007 Riding pics please.Ben.theres a couple on that link ben ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 Ah man, the blue ones are sweet!Shame they are £500!Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate why they are £500, I just can't stretch to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 2. Stiffest frame on the market. The more your frame flexes, the more muscle energy you are wastingOn the contrary. A frame that flexes well is a huge advantage, you just need to know where you want it to flex, and once you're on it - how to flex it. Koxx and Monty are good examples of frames which are made to flex.My Triton is very stiff where it needs to be stiff but if you stand on the bike with it's wheels off and push it into the ground, you'll get the bb rise from 50 to 30mm or less (hard to measure). The rebound is very quick and powerful and it really changes the way a bike feels and rides. Moves become more effortless and the ride is smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/Trialsin USA Posted December 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 A. Materials used in frames do not snap back fast enough to actually ad height/distance to a hop.B. If you did have the right material to accomplish this (like spring steel tubing!...that would be weird eh?!), whos weight would it work best for? That is to say, if the spring rate (rebound) is optimum for someone 10 stone (140 pounds), it will be too hard for someone 9 stone (125 pounds) or too squishy for someone 14 stone (almost 200 pounds). Unless you are suggesting there is some adjustment than can be made to the tubings spring rate, I'm finding it hard to figure out how flexing frames helps.On the contrary. A frame that flexes well is a huge advantage, you just need to know where you want it to flex, and once you're on it - how to flex it. Koxx and Monty are good examples of frames which are made to flex.My Triton is very stiff where it needs to be stiff but if you stand on the bike with it's wheels off and push it into the ground, you'll get the bb rise from 50 to 30mm or less (hard to measure). The rebound is very quick and powerful and it really changes the way a bike feels and rides. Moves become more effortless and the ride is smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 They're not full suspension frames, they don't flex while you're hopping on the rear wheel... you need to give them a big punch. Talking from personal experience here, this is invariably something one can notice while riding. That's for titanium, got no experience with proper aluminum frames. I'm basing that on opinions from quite a few pro riders with whom I had the chance to speak about frame characteristics. You're writing that flex is a bad thing and should be eliminated. What I was writing is that flex is a good thing if you know how to make a frame work properly. Really don't care about the details, how heavy the rider should or shouldn't be. That's down to the engineers who design these things. None the less, it works and that's what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/Trialsin USA Posted December 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 They're not full suspension frames, they don't flex while you're hopping on the rear wheel... you need to give them a big punch. Talking from personal experience here, this is invariably something one can notice while riding. That's for titanium, got no experience with proper aluminum frames. I'm basing that on opinions from quite a few pro riders with whom I had the chance to speak about frame characteristics. You're writing that flex is a bad thing and should be eliminated. What I was writing is that flex is a good thing if you know how to make a frame work properly. Really don't care about the details, how heavy the rider should or shouldn't be. That's down to the engineers who design these things. None the less, it works and that's what matters.If we were talking about a suspension frame, with proper valving a very good arguement could be made in favor of adding something to bounce/performance. At the end of the day you have to get as much (and fast) energy out of a frame as is put in. Even with Ti, the tubing available now does not come close to providing anything close to that type of performance enhancement. If it is not the type of enhancement suspension could theoretically provide, then I guess I am missing something. However, if you are suggesting that some give in the frame is something some riders like.....sure, personal preference is something I would never argue (hey, look at Vincos 80mm up BB!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 At the end of the day you have to get as much (and fast) energy out of a frame as is put in.Exactly. But you don't put that force in when jumping upwards, you put it in when preloading. When you're doing the jump, that energy is "released". It's a bit like running low pressure in your tyre I guess, just not to that extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 I have to agree with inur, flex is good if used right and it will give you a boost but also stiffness is key. If you take tyres how air is let out by riders to get more height, i should think if you did the physics it says it doesnt give you enough rebound to aid you but in practice riders will no that it does im sure this is the case with frames. Your saying it cant aid you because tubes arent known to give you enough rebound to, but in practice this isnt true as it seems and riders do find flex in the right places to give you extra a bounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/Trialsin USA Posted December 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 I have to agree with inur, flex is good if used right and it will give you a boost but also stiffness is key. If you take tyres how air is let out by riders to get more height, i should think if you did the physics it says it doesnt give you enough rebound to aid you but in practice riders will no that it does im sure this is the case with frames. Your saying it cant aid you because tubes arent known to give you enough rebound to, but in practice this isnt true as it seems and riders do find flex in the right places to give you extra a bounce.If a material is not capable of rebounding at a certain rate, there is no other "real world" explanation that changes physics. Any gain is purely psychological. Just because it is a trials frame, does not enable it to defy the laws of science that no other type of bike can.If a rider likes some give/flex, that is personal preference. Personal prefernce/comfort can effect riding, as in more efficient use of your muscles. But it should not be confused with turning tubes into springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 If a material is not capable of rebounding at a certain rate, there is no other "real world" explanation that changes physics. Any gain is purely psychological. Just because it is a trials frame, does not enable it to defy the laws of science that no other type of bike can.If a rider likes some give/flex, that is personal preference. Personal prefernce/comfort can effect riding, as in more efficient use of your muscles. But it should not be confused with turning tubes into springs.Im not saying turning tubes into springs, it just seems your dismissing flex as good at all. The idea of such a stiff frame i think is great and is a great point but you seem so fixed on that, that your kind of dismissing the idea of flex being able to help spring you up as your compareing tubes to springs and how fast the spring back. And are compareing this spring to a spring itself. Obviously its not like this as it isnt as quick acting as that. And a preload isnt a fast acting movement really so the tubes wouldnt need to snap back to give you spring but more act like a tyre does when softer and give you some bounce. Anyway i think both ideas of frames being ultra stiff and other having flex are great and suit different riders preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/Trialsin USA Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) Im not saying turning tubes into springs, it just seems your dismissing flex as good at all. The idea of such a stiff frame i think is great and is a great point but you seem so fixed on that, that your kind of dismissing the idea of flex being able to help spring you up as your compareing tubes to springs and how fast the spring back. And are compareing this spring to a spring itself. Obviously its not like this as it isnt as quick acting as that. And a preload isnt a fast acting movement really so the tubes wouldnt need to snap back to give you spring but more act like a tyre does when softer and give you some bounce. Anyway i think both ideas of frames being ultra stiff and other having flex are great and suit different riders preferences.Maybe we are talking past each other. I do not argue that flex can not be a positive thing. My road bike is a Look carbon because the roads here suck, and something super stiff would beat my tender butt up. However, I do know that a frame needs some sort of energy to flex it....and that energy is me. The energy put into the flex does not return to help propel the bike forward. Therefore the energy put into making it flex is wasted (in the sense that it is not being used to move me and the bike forward). I am OK with this trade off of some loss of energy. Point? Flex is not inherently bad...... I agree, its just that flex does not return in a rebound that will actually ad to the energy you put in. It may make you "feel" more stable when winding up for a sidehop.....but does not actually help fling you and the bike .......Long winded way of saying..... yeah, guess we were talking about two different things! Edited December 5, 2007 by Tim/Trialsin USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.