Beginners Training Now Offered

[spode@thinkbikes]

Sounds great Glad to see you trying to push trials in a different way to who can sidehop biggest!

I am hoping to come to these training days so i can chase the kids with pegs on my face. (tf needs a pegs on my face smilie).

LOL.

I think I know what I'm putting down as your profile picture on TB

[Phil H]

Sounds good, aswell as greatly benefitting riders and the trials community a very good business angle with the envolvement of tartybikes.

However concerning the idea of involving schools. I just can't imagine it working well as much as we all want trials to grow:

1.School kid's parents may not want to pay £200 for a sport they know nothing about.

2. After watching you ride they will be bubbling, after 2 hours when the kids realise they can't even trackstand I don't think they will be too chuffed, I can't imagine them understanding the effort needed.

3. To us tarty bikes is a big thing but 99% of people in England haven't even heard of the company and therefore a 10% voucher may seem almost worthless and will not be too useful for pursuading primarily.... ''Tart what?''

I don't mean to be pesimistic, I think its a brilliant idea for trials riders who know exactly what they are getting. Certainly if I was considering a new bike I would go for it not only for the experience but purely for financial reasons.

And, do you have enough obstacles to keep an average trials rider amused for 2-3 hours?

Just some thoughts,

Cheers, Phil

[spode@thinkbikes]

Sounds good, aswell as greatly benefitting riders and the trials community a very good business angle with the envolvement of tartybikes.

However concerning the idea of involving schools. I just can't imagine it working well as much as we all want trials to grow:

1.School kid's parents may not want to pay £200 for a sport they know nothing about.

2. After watching you ride they will be bubbling, after 2 hours when the kids realise they can't even trackstand I don't think they will be too chuffed, I can't imagine them understanding the effort needed.

3. To us tarty bikes is a big thing but 99% of people in England haven't even heard of the company and therefore a 10% voucher may seem almost worthless and will not be too useful for pursuading primarily.... ''Tart what?''

I don't mean to be pesimistic, I think its a brilliant idea for trials riders who know exactly what they are getting. Certainly if I was considering a new bike I would go for it not only for the experience but purely for financial reasons.

And, do you have enough obstacles to keep an average trials rider amused for 2-3 hours?

Just some thoughts,

Cheers, Phil

Some interesting thoughts, and I'm happy to discuss this. Although this was more of a news announcement....". (don't take that the wrong way Phil)

1. I disagree. Trials is getting more popular and the basics of trials will help you with ANY bicycle discipline. In fact, thinkbikes.com Dave only started learning trials because of his XC riding.

2. I can see your point here, but I think they will notice progress within 2 hours and they will certainly go away knowing 10x more about it than before they turned up. And that knowledge will allow them to progress outside of training. As with musical lessons - you don't get taught to sing, to play guitar, you get taught the means to teach yourself.

3. True. But that's the point of advertising - showing a market ignorant of a particular brand about one they should be remembering. What's the point in us advertising to people like, when you know already know about them? If they want in on trials, a 10% discount is incredibly useful and at least pays for the training. I also think Tarty's prices for an entry level trials bike, would be better than your local shop - assuming (which is quite an assumption) that they even stock one.

I'm not suggesting our model on this is perfect. In fact, Dave and I are already discussing some minor changes. But we do believe in this strongly enough to think it worthwhile doing alongside the demos.

[StuartD]

Touching the right people in a school who would be really interested in trials and would work at getting better at it means they could start at 8 years old or so, giving them a lot more time to play around with it and perfect the techniques. Its a good idea as long as theres a market, and theres only one way to find out if one exists!

[Krisboats]

Touching the right people in a school

I don't think touching any children in schools is classed as being right nowadays

[!laycky!]

Great idea, I think if I can get 10+ people you will be coming to Keighley

Laycky.

[StuartD]

I don't think touching any children in schools is classed as being right nowadays

D'oh

[Trialsnewb4life]

the concept is great. and i agree with who ever said that groups should be arranged in the ride/locations thread. What would you offer though, because im guessing just some instructors on bikes coming to a field full of people wouldnt really provide a good area for training. You gonna bring some equipment like boxes and platforms and what not????

[TonyB]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I need all the help I can get

[BONGO]

I'm going to be totally honest (which is kinda hard when it's aimed at people i know and get on with).

I'm really against this kind of thing. To take people's money in exchange for your knowledge is a real shitty thing to do. It's a business thing, i understand that. But i'd just not be involved in any business venture like this.

We all learned off riders better than us. We all asked how to do this and that, we all watched the good riders. For free.

Now, the riders that have got good and have gained experience (and know full well that you can't simply learn something, are offering this to riders who haven't yet realised that you can't just learn something by paying and being told how to do it.

I think more people will disagree with me than agree, but i'm just not into taking people's money off them for knowledge. If i needed money, i'd find another way of making it.

Bongo

[Token]

I think more people will disagree with me than agree, but i'm just not into taking people's money off them for knowledge. If i needed money, i'd find another way of making it.

Bongo

Were you against teachers when you were at school? I think they take money of people for their knowledge, it's not a totally immoral thing to do. I think this training will be aimed more to help people with bike control, which isn't a bad idea for kids learning to ride or doing their cycling proficiency. From what I've heard they've already done one training session and it went exceptionally well, the organisers were very impressed with how it went and I think they've been asked back again.

[Ben Cox]

I'm going to be totally honest (which is kinda hard when it's aimed at people i know and get on with).

I'm really against this kind of thing. To take people's money in exchange for your knowledge is a real shitty thing to do. It's a business thing, i understand that. But i'd just not be involved in any business venture like this.

We all learned off riders better than us. We all asked how to do this and that, we all watched the good riders. For free.

Now, the riders that have got good and have gained experience (and know full well that you can't simply learn something, are offering this to riders who haven't yet realised that you can't just learn something by paying and being told how to do it.

I think more people will disagree with me than agree, but i'm just not into taking people's money off them for knowledge. If i needed money, i'd find another way of making it.

Bongo

Were you against teachers when you were at school? I think they take money of people for their knowledge, it's not a totally immoral thing to do. I think this training will be aimed more to help people with bike control, which isn't a bad idea for kids learning to ride or doing their cycling proficiency. From what I've heard they've already done one training session and it went exceptionally well, the organisers were very impressed with how it went and I think they've been asked back again.

yes but to become a teacher they have paid to learn this stuff, not just got it for free then exploiting it...

[BONGO]

Were you against teachers when you were at school? I think they take money of people for their knowledge, it's not a totally immoral thing to do. I think this training will be aimed more to help people with bike control, which isn't a bad idea for kids learning to ride or doing their cycling proficiency. From what I've heard they've already done one training session and it went exceptionally well, the organisers were very impressed with how it went and I think they've been asked back again.

yeah they'll no doubt be decent, but the germans killed the jew's very effectively. It doesn't mean i should agree with it!

Teaching in education isn't in the same league when it comes to applying comparisons (neither are jews but you got what i meant lol) We're talking about a sport, that people pick up through friends and experience. You can tell a chile 2 X 2 = and he will learn how to do it in a jiffy. You can't teach bike control so easily.

I'm not saying they'll learn nothing. They will. But as a moral thing, i'd rather show people for free on rides. Whoever i meet i'll try to help if i'm able to. It's not a case of reaching people through the country to help, it's about money. I'm just not into it.

People are happy to pay, and wll go away happy, i just thing it's a shame someone gave them the option to pay.

[Bessell]

Spode can u get in contact with me about this would really like to help not bothered about the money side of it or any of that shiz i am in it for the love but i sure would like to help yo out!

[Biff...]

i think thats a f**king awful idea

[scousertrials]

I would pay anyone 1000 quid who can teach and motivate me to sidehop 50" or more.

[Token]

i think thats a f**king awful idea

You cant make a statement like that and not back it up with a reason, it makes you look like a self righteous tit.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Scopse

[spode@thinkbikes]

I'm going to be totally honest (which is kinda hard when it's aimed at people i know and get on with).

I'm really against this kind of thing. To take people's money in exchange for your knowledge is a real shitty thing to do. It's a business thing, i understand that. But i'd just not be involved in any business venture like this.

We all learned off riders better than us. We all asked how to do this and that, we all watched the good riders. For free.

Now, the riders that have got good and have gained experience (and know full well that you can't simply learn something, are offering this to riders who haven't yet realised that you can't just learn something by paying and being told how to do it.

I think more people will disagree with me than agree, but i'm just not into taking people's money off them for knowledge. If i needed money, i'd find another way of making it.

Bongo

I think most people would say I'm open minded, but I am struggling to see what is giving you such a bitter taste in your mouth. A little distaste from your opinions, I can see - but you've got a full blown hatred!

When I started riding, I didn't have anyone to learn from. In fact, the closest thing I had was watching a Martyn Ashton VHS, which I paid for. Or going to EBTC competitions, which I paid to attend.

So not only have I paid for these things, I have certainly paid for it through buying 10 years worth of trials bikes. If I'd had the option of being trained when I first started - I would have jumped at the opportunity and it probably would have saved me money on bike bits!

Now, if I'm out on a ride with people - I'll help out anyone who wants my help! Just because we've started training, doesn't mean we now have the angle of "I won't tell you a thing unless you pay me for it".

We make very little money from the training - we made it as cheap as possible to where it was worth doing at all. We all have our own (costly) lives, so driving around the country and giving free tuition for a day kind of puts a crimp on that - so there has to be a compensation.

Now, for the little money these newcomers spend, they get taught the essentials, that can take months to learn yourself - without someone standing there to tell you what to do, they get 10% if they buy a bike and they get to try out all of our bikes to see what style they like and have a great day out! And the cost of us traveling to them, is a lot cheaper than 20 kids taking the train to London, unsupervised, where they run the risk of being kicked off every obstacle you ride on, and being fined £30. We are fully insured for it, with CRB checks and all that Jazz - parents feel comfortable that they can leave their children with us.

I really fail to see how that is hurting anyone at all? All I see, is more promotion of the sport, especially in a safe manner, (trying to copy CLS after you've been riding a week is common and dangerous...) and they get a cheaper bike!

Don't get me wrong - I hate nasty business tactics and corporate takeovers as much as the next guy - but I at least take a rational approach to understanding the situation. You seem to have had a rather knee-jerk hippy reaction to what we're doing. But I think (could be wrong) that most people would see that what we are doing has far more benefits that drawbacks.

Bessel - I will get in touch with you on that. You'll get your cut - so if you don't care about the money, give it to charity.

[Heatsink]

I think you've explained this really well in your last post Spode , against some surprisingly strong reaction.

It's a new thing for trials, but is common for other skilled sports. Because of the danger involved it's excellent that it's being done in a professionally structured manner with experienced riders offering thorough guidance.

I think new initiatives and ideas are to be applauded in Trials I hope it all works out!

Steve

Good post

[JT!]

I can't really see where bongo is comming from, i like the idea, i don't think it'll get very far due to lack of interest, especially after the initail customers, but it's hardly a ruthless buisness.