Sutty22 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've got the heatsink 18t bash/sprocket, KHE collapse chain, 13t Surly cog on the back and a 74Kingz tensioner. All brand new. On my echo it worked perfectly and I had the tensioner set to up-tension which I liked. Built up my new Caisso frame today and had to add a link to the chain due to longer chainstays so had the tensioner set to down-tension. Started riding and the chains skipping every full turn. I investigated further and it seems that the chain pitch is different to that of the surly sprocket. As the chain feeds on to the sprocket every so often a tooth ends up trying to engage where the roller is in the chain. The chain line seems good. Is this just the bits that need bedding in together or have I got a problem? Any help would be gratefully received as i'm dying to get out on my new bike. Cheers, Sutty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_skj0lsvik_ Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've got the exact same problem, my setup is as follows:WI ENO FFWKool k710 chainSurly 15t rear cog74kingz tensionerI guess* that the rear cog is the problem.-Sondre*Read: KNOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huge Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Surly cogs need a lot of chain wrap to stop them skipping, maybe the tensioner just won't allow enough of the chian to be in contact with the cog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymoped Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I GOT A 15T ON THE BACK WITH A GUSSET TENSIONER and i have had no problems just got the chain very very very tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 the chainstay length will be different, i imagine your chain is catching on your tensioner as it is now in a different position, just ride it for a while and it SHOULD rebed into position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutty22 Posted July 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Tried using my old chain which is well worn but still having the same problem. It's definately not catching the tensioner as I have adjusted it and messed around with it loads. I'm pretty convinced its a problem with the surly sprocket just from looking at it. I'll be pretty annoyed if it is because it cost me about £20 and i'll bet I can't get a refund now its been used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 what tensioner is it? if its a rohloff, or something similar with a cage it may well be the tensioner bedding in. i know mine did last week, its fine again now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 what tensioner is it? if its a rohloff, or something similar with a cage it may well be the tensioner bedding in. i know mine did last week, its fine again now. its a 74 kings tensioner. My khe chain works fine on my surley sprocket. Your gearing must be unbelieveable light running 18:13. May be try getting more rap of the chain on the sprocket and see if the chain will stretch with use and bed in on the sprocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutty22 Posted July 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) what tensioner is it? if its a rohloff, or something similar with a cage it may well be the tensioner bedding in. i know mine did last week, its fine again now.It's a 74kingz. Thats another thing that f***s me off. The tensioner cost me £30 and the sprocket £20 so thats £50 for bits that don't do the job they're supposed to. The sprocket works fine if the chain is hoofing tight but that bends the springs on the tensioner and eventually breaks them. Lose-lose situation. I'm basically redesigning the tensioner myself to get it to hold the chain tight without falling apart. I'm desperate to get out on my bike as we've had torrential rain all week and its been fine today.Does anyone know if this skipping when new is just surly sprockets or do they all do it. Basically thinking about biting the bullet and getting a king cog or something just so I can ride my new bike. p.s Just tried up-tensioning to get more wrap but it made no difference. 18-13 is quite hard gearing not light. Edited July 6, 2007 by Sutty22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 O yeah it is hard not light got it wrong way round. Have you tried useing a hacksaw blade as a spring on your tensioner they are supose to be better. And instead of buying a king sprocket just get a casstte and split it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) You need a massive chain because the notches between the teeth are deeper in Surly sprockets than in others. It's not healthy for the chain/sprocket to ride a setup like that. I'd think a KHE would do the job but you say it doesn't - strange? Tensioning won't solve the problem, it'll just make it less noticeable.edit:My mate did this to his Surly cog, i'm guessing he had the same problems:The idea is not to make the notches deeper (that will just exacerbate the problem) but wider Edited July 6, 2007 by Inur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Gibson Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 If its a new cog, the chain will need to stretch to "bed in" this happened when I had my monty, like the chain line wasnt prefect. Just lube the chain up and stamp on the pedal every few turns of the cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netherking Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 i'm having a few probelms with my 74 kings too. i landed on the springs and snapped them and i'm using hacksaw blades to fix it and just finding it hard to get the set up back to normal. and the original springs do just snap after a while :(might mod mine and use a jockey wheel ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paolo Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Ehm, tried running you tensioner upside down, your chain would wrap around your cog much more ? I haven't seen a 74king tensioner so I couldn't tell you if it could work... But 13t is a really small cog it could explain part of your problem. But having more tension should solve your problem until your chain streches a bit, the surly cog is very deep so your new chain probably isn't able to fit in properly. But it sucks, cause you can't just ride it smoothly until it streches a tad as you can't seem to ride at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutty22 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 (edited) I have tried everyhing I can think of and got nowhere. The 74kingz tensioner is utter toss if you need to put anything other than a little tension on your chain. To try and bed my chain and sprocket in I put loads of tension on it but the chain still rides up the teeth as though the pitch of one of them is out (it's definately not climbing up the sides). When it rides up it obviously tightens the chain and snaps the spring on the tensioner. Its destroyed both springs and countless hacksaw blades. After two days I'm absolutely no closer to getting it working, I'm going to build my own tensioner, that actually tensions the chain tomorrow. Can't run the tensioner upside down as the chain touches itself at the top, can't take a link out as its not long enough then (by about 2mm). I think that the surly cogs teeth are not deep enough which is why it requires loads of wrap for it to work. How do other sprockets fare like that? Has anyone found one that doesn't require much chain wrap for it to work?Also just noticed a crack in the axle of my king hub that i'm certain wasn't there when i started so thats gonna be tons of cash to fixToday has just been a s**t day. sorry for ranting but I actually feel much better now Edited July 7, 2007 by Sutty22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 (edited) ^^^ i feel for you, i really do. i got my rear cog off OBM for 3 quid, its just a standards chunky bmx cog, maybe worth just heading over to a couple of bmx shops and take a lookEDIT: if you are planning on making a tensioner still anyhow, have a look here for some ideas, there are some very clever ones posted by heatsink stevelink Edited July 7, 2007 by ash-kennard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutty22 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Surly cogs need a lot of chain wrap to stop them skipping, maybe the tensioner just won't allow enough of the chian to be in contact with the cog.This was the exact problem that caused me days of work. I eventually solved the problem by getting a Rohloff short arm tensioner (cheers for the recommendation Ash Kennard). This gives me loads of chain wrap and it doesn't skip at all now. Got a King QR axle off the same guy and fitted that tonight and also my Coust-sink pads. Well happy with the bike now. It just needs to not break for a couple of months as I've spent loads on it in the last couple of weeks. Thanks to everyone for their advice and help, I was truly tearing my hair out and getting well pissed off but alls well now.Cheers, Sutty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 could be the cog "sucking" the chain, by sounds of it, if your struggling sutty let me know when your down our end il sort it out for you.im sure il have a spare cog kicking about somewhere.Caisso's ***!!!!! Wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Smith Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 surley cogs = shite, the pitch of them is all wrong, i once bought one and had the exact same problem, chain jumping off the sprocket, just change to a shimano dx or similar and all wil be fine, the shimno sprockets are only like £5 aswell,from looking through the thread a lot of people have had problems with these surleys cogs.......................shimano ***ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Pearson Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Havn't read the whole thread but can I suggest looking for stiff links where you joined the chain on the new bike? Can make all the difference.Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy d Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Now I feel smug with my archaic 22:18 large cogs for badass chain wrap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) Surly cogs need a lot of chain wrap to stop them skipping, maybe the tensioner just won't allow enough of the chian to be in contact with the cog.Ehm, tried running you tensioner upside down, your chain would wrap around your cog much more ? I haven't seen a 74king tensioner so I couldn't tell you if it could work... good springs include hacksaw blades and 50p steel rulers (my current setup)EDIT : I had exactly the same problem with my surly cog ...... Edited July 12, 2007 by manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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