nmt_oli Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Oli , im very cheery thanks, lol.Just find it amusing that anyone cares about having a debate about the single most stupid thing you can do to your body.(smoke)Good that your cheery! i need to go on a xc ride agan with you some time too, my fitness is right down.Anyway, if you had read all of rich's post, you would realise its not JUST smoking we are debating here! theres a hell of a lot mroe to it than that.P.s. i think the cake threads a good idea, i could do with learning how to bake. Our new kitchen isnt finsihed yet, so il have to wait a little while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 (edited) Health and safety is a jokeRight, not read much on this thread but seeing how 'Health and Safety' pays my wages I'll take offence...Ok, you're 20 years old, a year older than me. Health and Safety (in the workplace) kicked off about 1974 before it became a regulation to cover YOU at work. Before this employers could ask you to do anything they liked...not much of a difference from 12 year olds maintaining cotton looms in Tudor times. If you died, that was it.Ok, I'm not all for the 'No win; No fee' sue everyone, American way of life bullshit. But because of 'Health and Safety' as you narrowly put it, you are not working in your own shit, stupidly long hours and experiencing near death everytime you go to work.And if that was a rant about how 'kids can't play conkers' and all that bullshit you read in the paper, its not actually true, its down to bad practice.Anyway, if its such a joke, why don't you go and qualify on the ridiculously hard exam, get the diplomas and put it all right....being the expert that you clearly are Buuuuut, anyway, dont take that all personally mate, Its just annoying when I work my balls off and people generally call what I do a 'joke'...The people who pay me hundreds of pounds to do easy work are the real joke It's not all bad Edited July 3, 2007 by anzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixed Pants™ Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I think he's talking about something a long the lines of Simans recentish rant on him getting a bollocking for kicking a plank of wood underneath a heavy thing... Which is a bit too strict, but then again, accidents can and do happen. I never rely on luck, if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, just like what happened to my friend Ben, didn't think he'd get stabbed and die, but he did, which is one of the main reasons i don't have the 'it will never happen to me' mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmt_oli Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Right, not read much on this thread but seeing how 'Health and Safety' pays my wages I'll take offence...Ok, you're 20 years old, a year younger than me. Health and Safety (in the workplace) kicked off about 1974 before it became a regulation to cover YOU at work. Before this employers could ask you to do anything they liked...not much of a difference from 12 year olds maintaining cotton looms in Tudor times. If you died, that was it.Ok, I'm not all for the 'No win; No fee' sue everyone, American way of life bullshit. But because of 'Health and Safety' as you narrowly put it, you are not working in your own shit, stupidly long hours and experiencing near death everytime you go to work.And if that was a rant about how 'kids can't play conkers' and all that bullshit you read in the paper, its not actually true, its down to bad practice.Anyway, if its such a joke, why don't you go and qualify on the ridiculously hard exam, get the diplomas and put it all right....being the expert that you clearly are Buuuuut, anyway, dont take that all personally mate, Its just annoying when I work my balls off and people generally call what I do a 'joke'...The people who pay me hundreds of pounds to do easy work are the real joke It's not all bad Woah! chill! I do understand H&S is there for a reason, and is generally a good thing. I didn't back it up as i rpesumed people would relise what i was saying, but obviously not, this is the internet afterall.What i think is a joke abotu H&S is that most of it is just general common sense - something this coutry seems to have a big lack of at the moment, and some of it is getting really very silly- conkers being an obvious example. I also think my trafalgar 07 thingy shows what i mean quite well two. You shoudl be able to asses danger to a certain extent yourself, and decide whether an action is safe or not. you shouldnt need to be told EVERYTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 just the make clear, this is all aimed @ the first postI will skip the part about the smoking, since I just have a big thing against smoking, and can't see the point of argueing over itBut the rest of the rant is just a master peice, about the freedom and people feeling offended about the smallest things, and the whole situation of the world, I think exactly the same about it.I too could never really accept the way things work in this world, so I understand your point very well.Good job on the whole ''essay'', you put it down very nicely with the facts and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Right, not read much on this thread but seeing how 'Health and Safety' pays my wages I'll take offence...I doubt you'll get any argument from anyone that, when used sensibly and rationally, health and safety is a good thing in the workplace. The majority is of course common sense and people who tend to work in that sector seem to be called Norman and look like train spotters... just an observation! The joke part is when people aren't allowed to use a power drill without first having to attend a 3 course explaining that the drill should not be used to pick your nose because some retarded american did so and turned the thing on before successfully suing the manufacturer for not clearly telling him it wasn't for that purpose!!! I certainly agree that H&S could do with a major shake up and 'streamlining' to remove the vast amount of BS...H&S seems to be the same with most things in the UK and as such we could really do with taking a leaf out of the French's book. The EU provides us with millions of stupid rules and regulations covering everything under the sun. We blindly follow them and get screwed and waste time as a result. The French follow the bits that make sense and will actually help them and ignore the rest.DaveP.S. I didn't know that Rich alhtough I'm not 100% surprised... but then I've never smoked and never will- disgusting habit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 just anther completely off topic response here but meh:someone recommended watching V for vendetta? i watched the film enjoyed it etc, but i thought that girl with the huge glasses was shot dead, and thought that Stephen fry feller was executed? yet in the end scene they are both seen in the crowds, haha pointless but was bugging me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Neal Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Superb topic - has kept me most amused reading this, for two lunch times!Personally, I'm against smoking as I'm asthmatic and it doesn't help one bit. I'm all for the smoking ban. However, for laughing at people for whatever reason is wrong - unless its among friends that don't mind.As for the ID cards - I'm undecided. It depends upon they're done. If its a card version of a passport with NI number on it - I don't really see a problem.As for installing GPS in cars - not happy. I reckon they should go more along the lines of dangerous driving with less focus on speed. I find I concentrate less on the road when watching my speed all the time. However it would be a fail safe way of ensuring people don't speed but then why allow companies to sell cars that will happily do 100mph plus?Alsojust going through all the stuff we've lost since the Labour government came in, e.g. the right to protest, whereas now you have to ask the police for permission to protest, which is a pretty massive change which has sorta slipped under the majority's radar.Go see Mark Thomas (political comedian) if you get a chance. I believe he currently holds the world record for the most protests organised in one place on one day. How to annoy the authorities.Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hill_393 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Christ!What a long read, but all the same a very interesting one! It's nice to read something different on the forum, and in at least one one it show's people care! But christ didn't it get up some people! Some comments made my jaw drop!I agree with the smoking ban. I'm not going to go into reasons as they're the same as have have already been mentioned. Political Correctness has gone haywire as has Health and Safety. In my role as a Retail Manager I had to deal with it day in and day out, and stupid rules and regulations that were put in made me giggle to myself! To be honest I think the world should have one big sign saying...."You live at your own risk" (If you don't you'll get sued!!)England is going the way of America - Sue happy. The stories I've heard scare me!God on you mate for putting the rant up. It was a really interesting read, and it does bring out people's views and predujicies. I admire anyone who stands up for what they believe in.Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Sorry, I'm still entirely mystified as to what 'health & safety' legislation has to do with this. The problem lots of people (myself included) have with H&S is that it takes the responsibility away from the person and kills off common sense.Now, if this ban was for the health of the smokers, such comparisons would be perfectly justified. But it isn't. A large proportion of non-smokers campaigned for a ban on smoking in enclosed spaces because they wanted to protect their health.I can't think of many other ways to explain this, but it isn't a civil liberties issue in the way that lots of people think it is. Authorities aren't saying 'you can't smoke, it's bad for your health', they're simply saying those who don't smoke should be given a choice.Or, to put it another way. The group who's health is in question with H&S at a building site, for example, are the builders. They have loads of H&S legislation piled on them, and this may make their jobs harder, and so H&S could be seen to be a pain in the arse. In the case of this smoking ban, the group who's health is in question are the non smokers. They have asked for this new legislation because they don't want to be at risk.If the Government said they were banning smoking full stop, then the civil liberties worriers would be perfectly justified in complaining. It's only common sense that a person's health should not be put at risk for the enjoyment of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmt_oli Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I thought the H&S was brought into this debate as part of the whole "society of today" thing rather than the smokign specific part, but yeah, you make good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Totally agree, H&S is in some cases way over the top and people are too protected. But it's not quite the same as the smoking ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixed Pants™ Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Went to 'ampfarm' (small local bands play every other wednesday upstairs in a pub, pretty good) and there's usually loads of emofags and chicks smoking loads, was sooo nice to not have to put up with the smoke and come home smelling like an ashtray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I can't think of many other ways to explain this, but it isn't a civil liberties issue in the way that lots of people think it is. Authorities aren't saying 'you can't smoke, it's bad for your health', they're simply saying those who don't smoke should be given a choice.That's how it's being dressed up, but in reality I'm sure that it's aimed more at people who already smoke and making them stop.Most people I know who smoke only do so when they go out at weekends or whatever. A complete ban on smoking in pubs/bars means that most of them will stop, which is only a good thing for everyone involved (except, perhaps, the tobacco companies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I'm not sure the Government want people to stop, as tobacco is a good source of revenue. Besides, this ban doesn't say anything about people smoking in their own homes, outdoors, etc. Personally I think the health of the smokers has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future orange 660 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 at my local they have invested in building an outhouse/ open conservatory onto the side of the building for smokers to use. must be worth the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Kearns Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I was thinking earlier. Give it 3 months for example. Some pub owners might be thinking, "right im loosing money here" and send of for a smoking license. Like how pubs applied for longer opening hours etc.Anybody think that will be allowed ?Danny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Kearns Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Why not ?Danny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Because smoking in enclosed public spaces has just been banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 So long as "radical free thinkers" aren't afraid to voice their opinions there may just be a little bit of hope left for us as a species.that better have been sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the666ers Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 that better have been sarcasmOh dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 why shouldnt people be allowed to voice radical thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011001000110010101110010 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 You're saying he doesn't deserve to be ridiculed because you know him, which is plain silly.No, pay attention. Im saying no smoker should be ridiculed. They should have got the message by now that its bad for them with all the warnings on packets and now the ban.Keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixed Pants™ Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 They should be ridiculed, as it's their choice, not like they're born with it, like race, gender or what ever...If not ridiculed, at least made to feel bad about smoking, for the benefit of themselves and others around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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