it's okay, i sorted a decent way of getting my pads closer to the rim, the frame's 'legs' weren't sitting that straight on the hub, because the snail cams were pushing them out 3mm on each side, so i've removed the cams and put 'em on the outside of the dropout, therefore gaining 3mm each side I've been wondering about those pads for quite a while, you don't happen to know what they're like ok a lightish/medium grind do you? ta, Dean