jake no offence, sounds like you cant accept monty rims are shite. theyre good for the natural smoooth type riders, infact for natural they are one o the best options, theyre uber light, grind pretty decent i suppose and dont really dent on small moves, if you ride street dont get them, the monty xlite rims on street are crap, i must be fat, i snapped sidewall off of my old one and dented it to shit, so has, squince, danny foster, jack marshall, oh we must all be fat, thatd be half true if BILLOCKS who is about the same weight as a bag of crisps has dented the shit out of his and his hasnt been ground at all. they are generally wank rims if your not smooth . sorry didnt have my say about echo rims erm the 05 ones, me and squince (we are both very harrsh on rims) havent dented one yet they are mint rims, grind up awesomely too, cant comment on the 06 rims i heard mixed comments about them. some being theyre too hard you cant grind them very good down to theyre made of cheese lol havent tried them personally or know anyone well thats tried them