You're fooling nobody, 16v's are just better all round - more power, more torque, more tuning potential, about the same MPG, better factory spec, arguably more reliable... And Tom_ 18-20 I was with Elephant with my mum and 2 sisters on the policy, 20-23 I've been with Adrian Flux and it's nearly renewal time again so I'll let you know how much it costs me ...Though thinking about it, I'll be insuring a Mondeo, not my Golf Golf is coming off the road for a big project!