Sponge

No no, Martin (Y) , it's the same frame as mine, Zoo Python shorty, and Yao Zhi's new company is called Zhibikes I believe? www.zhibike.com is the site, but it doesn't always seem to work

Just checked Tartybikes, and the GU mod frame is £285... Awesomely good price I think, Same with every other Deng frame except the Czar which is only £300. But then the 06 Pitbull costs £400, and Python £285? Bit of updating needed or is that the actual price :P ?

Well, according to Tartybikes, it's got a thick downtube for 'maximum power transfer'. It's got an even higher BB than the Team and Python at 55+mm, this has got 60+mm, and the frame, I expect will probably cost £50 more than a Python/Team.

Actually, only the bash mounts have been changed, the T-Mag downtube is still the same oval-oval denty wenty downtube. If the bash gusset on the downtube is improved, then its no problem, just runan armoudillo and be happy, at least the bashplate doesn't cave itself inwards into the tubing now. Also, I think it might be better to buy a T-Pro to start with, as they are pretty much based off the Levelboss mod, just with slight tweaked geo, if you snap it or whatever, then just get a Zona Zip frame, which is very cheap. When I rode the T-Mag it felt much shorter than the T-Pro, and with the standard Spec-1 bar and stem it feels cramped like hell, I personally think it's worth getting the T-Pro and upgrading the bar and stem first, eventually the freewheel and forks. But it is bargain, and plus, if you don't hook or tap the T-Pro like a twat then it shouldn't break under such light usage unless your a walrus :P . About the BB breakage, I'm sure that the T-Pro and T-Mag both share the same model of Onza BB? It's just bad luck that a T-Pro owner had to break it? From all I've read about both frames, the T-Pro is certainly a good practice frame for low level riders, it's got chainstay gussets for sidehop learning, reasonable downtube thickness against dents. It's really pretty much a great frame for your average unsmooth rider, it's just when you think you're ready to do 6ft drops without the totally correct technique you break things. Get a T-Pro to get good on, get a T-master or Zoo stem and Zoo riser bars, some better forks like Echo Easy, and then a Tensile freewheel and the bike's pretty much an amazing ride. When you snap the T-Pro after a year, get an even better frame like Zona or whatever's out there, you'll still have the great parts you got for your T-Pro, which you wouldn't really have if you spent the £80 extra on a T-Mag.

They look very nice, but black are still just as nice, overdoing Zoo bikes with things like green rims, green cranks, and green bars and even green brakes will look a bit overdone and horrible. By 1000 being made, is this 1000 of each Hs33 and Louise left and right hand brakes? Or 1000 brakes made up of LH/RH Louises and Hs33s?

Stem choice matters a bit I suppose, as the Vinco I've had goes on uses a Hifi stem and Zoo bar, whereas the GU I rode uses a Zoo mod stem and Onza CF riser bar. They both do feel like big mods, but doing static gaps feels very awkward at first, even though backwheel control and hopping feel so comfortable compared to lower BB stocks. If I got used to a high BB stock frame, I'd probably be very impressed by its ride. They're something different at least, just so we get more choice of what kinds of things to do trials riding on. I can imagine high BB frames to be quite comfortable on small techy natural spots.

Well, the rim wasn't ground for usage on a unicycle, because the unicycle 19" wheeled frames don't come with magura mounts. The ground Kris Holm rim was chucked onto this guy's old Onza T-Pro for a bit of testing around on a bike, I lent him my old Batch C pads which were about 2 or 3mm thick only, and the grind did last a pretty damn long time and still isn't dead, although my old Batch Cs were eaten away within 2 weeks, he now runs koolstops on the rim. The bike was then sold to a brother of his friend's very recently, due to him finding bike trials fairly boring compared to his unicycling, I'll check the Kris Holm rim on that T-Pro next time I see the guy who currently owns the T-Pro. We never put the ground Holm rim onto the unicycle we have another unground one he uses on his unicycle, but perhaps, they might be the same rims as Onza Hog if Onza say it is, even though they are narrower than Hog rims. It's probably the factor that theya aren't drilled out at all that makes them bloody strong, if a DX32 was killed after a month on my friend's unicycle, and the Kris Holm rim going strong after 2 months or more. It is a popular rim for strength in the unicycling world according my friend. It is only £22 for the rim.. which is pretty cheap. Unicyclists do treat rims much harsher than us bike riders, just listening to a Uni rider dropping only 3 or 4ft sounds very harsh and heavy, as they can't get it anywhere near as smooth as bikes can.

I've got the Yao Zhi Python which has 360mm chainstays, this is supposed to make the thing lift up easier isn't it? Well, I'm using a Zoo bar and Echo Team stem, yet, compared to a BMX, lifting to a manual is very annoying, as the front end of my Python sort of doesn't want to keep goign backwards, even though I pull back really hard with arms and body, leaning back. Maybe there's a slightly different method for pulling mods up to manuals, than on BMXs? (Y)

On the topic of street riding, can most mods like T-Pros, Pythons, Teams, etc. of a reasonably longish wheelbase (of over 1000 at least) be good for street riding in terms of BMX style stuff such as manuals, rolling 360 bunnyhops, and other such flatland manouevres I see people pull off on 26" such as squeakers, and continuous G-turns? Just wondering if it is possible, would be fun to manual my Python if it were very possible (the front end is too bloody hard to lift up to position without a pedal stroke!). (Y)

(Y) JT.... you assume things too much. You do realise that the Holm Rim is not exactly the same as the Hog rim, maybe because you are too faithful to Onza/Supercycles to realise that. Read the previous posts JT, I expect you to do that very well, seeing as you stay up till 5am on Trials Forum. So I am quite disappointed with you this time. Kris Holm rim= 42mm, Hog rim=47mm... it's not the same thing, and grinds held pretty decent compared to my Koxx rim. I'm sure a Unicyclist who competes a lot in comps and gone through a lot of parts, would know quite a bit of info on these products, I'm not the expert, he is the one with all the knowledge passed onto me, I merely thought, why not see if this rim will be popular with bike riders? Obviously, drilling them will reduce it's proclaimed 'super strength' theoritical status. Koxx rims get munched on unicycles on average, DX32s and Onza undrilled rims get flatspotted after some big unicycling. The Kris Holm rim has lasted ages and shown basically no signs of breakage or fatigue on my friend's unicycle. Now he's getting a brand new Koxx Unicycle, we're both counting the number of days his Koxx rim lasts compared to his old one . Then the Holm rim gets chucked back on... :) I doubt that a 'bad wheelbuild' led to his Onza, DX32, and Koxx rims fail in the past, as most of them were built by the respective companies. He built his Kris Holm rim onto his unicycle, he's no expert at all, probably no better than I am (not that great). It's lasted way longer than any other of his rims have so far, the Onza undrilled rim even danced side to side so much with about 3 flatspots.

Yer I'm coming Joe Joe, you'd better be pulling off huge sidehops tomorrow (Y) ... But then, you bail out on this ride at the last moment because you had to babysit your brother? (Y) Whatever.

Yeah, but 'light weight competition frame'.... (Y) Well, it weighs about 1800g with bashplate. But the Zoo Python is 1600g and 1836g, yet it's supposedly so much stronger than the XTP. I doubt they'd last long on the street if you do huge stuff and miss land frequently like most riders would do when going big. Also I was told by Tim Rodriguez that someone like Benito Ros (well one of the Koxx team XTP riders) admitted that these frames will break soon around the BB area, it even breaks under its designed natural and comp usage fairly sooner than most frames. I don't know if this is entirely true, but sounds pretty much within reason. Anyhow, I like the look of the XTP, must wait for the Czar mod to come out if it does, (Y) .

The Zona zip rides pretty nicely, compared to my Yao Zhi Python, its got the same length chainstays (by default), but the Zip has a longer front end which sort of feels slightly nicer for doing surges from when I tried it out. Now with the Pythons lowered down in price £100, there's really very little in it between the Zip and Python... £230 for the silver Zip.. £280 Python 05 off Selectbikes.. Loads of choice there, I still prefer my Yao Zhi to both the Zip and the CLS, but every rider's individual I guess. Oww I wish the Python came in dark grey too now (Y)

Funny because it actually does hold a grind longer than my cheesy Koxx rim. Certainly longer, no doubt about it, when I tried it out on someone else's bike. and the grind is still not dead, whereas my Koxx rim's grind died much sooner. Unless, they've modified this rim after I tried it out a tiny bit, it shouldn't be the same cheese aluminium as my Koxx rim. This '3x as strong as DX32 rim' thing is gotten off a unicyclist I know, who eats through 19" rims quite fast, but not this one yet, and he did say it was designed to be the strongest against flatspotting in particular.

Haha, people already buying this rim less than an hour I suggested this rim to the forum...

Hmm, just looked and yeah the picture does show the Kris Holm rim to have a braking surface line, but my friend's one certainly does not have it. I guess the sidewalls will dent as easy as other rims, but certainly won't get crushed or flatspotted easily at all.

Err, but, a Viz rim is 46mm in width, whereas Kris Holm is 42.2mm.. plus Viz has a line streaking along the braking surface. It can't really be a Viz rim I don't think... Well... just checked again, and there's yet another Viz 19" rim? Yeah Ad was right, 42mm.. but it still has a little streak along the braking surface... the Kris Holm rim isn't drilled so has some strength over the Viz even if it is the same..

Heard from a very reliable unicyclist, in my area, quite experienced unicyclist infact. Yeah he's eaten through Try-All rims and DX32s, but this one's lasted him a fair bit. Plus amongst the unicyclist commnity it is regarded as the strongest rim you can get. DX32s are probably one of the strongest bike trials rims for mods, Mark Westlake would certainly agree! Yet this rim is designed to be 3x or so as strong as the DX32. In terms of material Will, it holds grinds better than Try-All rims definitely, as experimented ages ago. The actual anodized braking surface itself is pretty neat with my oldest Heatsink Batch C Baby Blue pads I gave away for experimenting (uber worn down though). It's damn hard to flatspot, apparantly no one has yet on a unicycle, so will be almost a life time investment for a bike rider, provided the sidewall isn't worn down too quickly. For £22, for a bloody strong rim, you really can't go wrong at all.

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Can't come sorry, my dad's just gone off to get some shopping, and I have no money ^_^. Plus I've been forced to fit a f*cking 3 piece Euro crankset and chain device to a stupid mountainbike <_<

Personally, I think the Vinco rides the nicest out of the high BB frames, probably because of its massive BB height, I also rode a GU, but it wasn't as nice, maybe due to a Zoo mod stem being used on it compared to a Hifi stem? Anyway, to me, high BB stocks feel awesome on the backwheel,and yes it actually does feel like a big mod, because the normal lower BB stocks feel sluggish and slightly clumsier to ride around, probably because I'm so used to a flickier mod style riding. But yeah, I can imagine people getting really bored of high BB frames, but still, they are pretty damn nice to ride. The GU has 60+mm BB rise, whereas the Pitbull 06, Czar Ivan, Adamant A1, and Hifi have 55+mm BB rise (which does make a slight difference in feel, as I have experimented). Also the Adamant A2 can be viewed here as well, its 6061 alloy instead of U6 and has less CNCing all over the frame, so I guess it's like a lower end frame from Deng, kind of like the Pure was in a way: www.panpa.com Thanks to Jonathan Trillo for showing me the site originally.

Hold on there, is that Craig on the ol' Ashton there? I remember him from Hastings doing backwards stoppie-front hop-squeaker combination dropoffs!

I loved my old original Heatsink Blues, the good old Batch C pads which were really Baby Blue in color. Those Heatsinks pads were the best for my bike, great lock and hold without tar, it was really squishy and it squirms a bit when dragging, but locks and holds great. I wish they were still in production :lol:

Great riding there, I liked the sideways drop off that high brick wall, and very nice sidehops too! Solid riding but I can't work out whether he's riding a sprayed Adamant frame or a Toxsin (Y)

Oh right, cheers Mark, I'll see if any LBS' stock freewheel spacers, if not I could just buy a Dicta 14t and nick the spacers from it.